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Ichingcarpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:12 AM Original message |
Another first: Obama acknowledges 'non-believers' |
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merwin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:14 AM Response to Original message |
1. They left out Clinton. |
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jeff30997 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 04:06 AM Response to Reply #1 |
42. Well if I remember correctly... |
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NNadir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:16 AM Response to Original message |
2. I was really pleased by this, startled and really, really, really pleased. |
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L. Coyote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:24 AM Response to Reply #2 |
4. I was insulted. I'm a realist, not a non-believer. I believe in science! |
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create.peace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:29 AM Response to Reply #4 |
6. i am a member of the reality based community on ning |
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heliarc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 02:56 AM Response to Reply #6 |
35. I hated Rick Warren's Sanctimonious nonsense... |
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create.peace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:31 AM Response to Reply #4 |
7. hey, go to the new whitehouse.gov site and tell him! |
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jobycom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:33 AM Response to Reply #4 |
9. As a realist and a believer in science, your post offends me. |
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Cha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-23-09 01:16 PM Response to Reply #9 |
93. Thank you for responding |
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NNadir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:40 AM Response to Reply #4 |
11. As a non-believer in science, I have no idea about that to which you refer. |
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NYC Liberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:49 AM Response to Reply #4 |
14. Well, I for one *AM* a atheist - a non-believer - and proud of it. |
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girl gone mad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:51 AM Response to Reply #4 |
15. As a scientist and a non-believer, |
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TheDoorbellRang (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:54 AM Response to Reply #4 |
16. We have a need in our language for a new term for this |
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DUlover2909 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 03:19 AM Response to Reply #16 |
37. There is a book called The Universe Next Door that describes the 7 possible world views. |
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TheDoorbellRang (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 11:12 AM Response to Reply #37 |
60. I agree, it would have been awkward |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 07:09 PM Response to Reply #37 |
74. On the contrary, atheist is a fine label. It's quite simple and easy to apply. |
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marasinghe (754 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 08:13 PM Response to Reply #37 |
80. kindly allow me to clarify a couple of points |
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onager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-22-09 11:19 AM Response to Reply #37 |
88. For a start, there are many more than "seven" world views. |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 09:07 AM Response to Reply #16 |
55. Humanist? |
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TheDoorbellRang (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 11:15 AM Response to Reply #55 |
62. That's much better, isn't it? |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 06:30 PM Response to Reply #16 |
71. Ironic, isn't it? Atheist is the default position -- all babies are born atheist... |
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skyounkin (722 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:58 AM Response to Reply #4 |
18. Little bothered by the phrase "non-believer" |
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Wetzelbill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 07:23 AM Response to Reply #18 |
51. on issues like that |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 07:10 PM Response to Reply #18 |
75. I hear you, since they mean the same thing (as atheism is NOT a religion). |
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customerserviceguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-22-09 11:09 AM Response to Reply #18 |
87. Same here |
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Nihil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-23-09 07:12 AM Response to Reply #87 |
89. ... on both sides by the look of it ... |
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customerserviceguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-23-09 10:53 AM Response to Reply #89 |
90. The only objections |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-23-09 11:20 PM Response to Reply #89 |
95. There's no such thing as a fundamentalist atheist. There are no fundamentals to be zealous about. |
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galloglas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 01:15 AM Response to Reply #4 |
21. Get a grip! |
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No Elephants (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 02:01 PM Response to Reply #21 |
64. I'm not sure Deists can be included with non-believers. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 02:21 AM Response to Reply #4 |
27. Many atheists would disagree with you. |
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smiley (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 02:49 AM Response to Reply #27 |
33. BINGO!!! |
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Wetzelbill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 02:32 AM Response to Reply #4 |
29. I'm a Christian, a realist and I believe in science |
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smiley (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 02:52 AM Response to Reply #29 |
34. then you have a multiple personality disorder... |
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Wetzelbill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 07:15 AM Response to Reply #34 |
50. hold on while I ask one of my selves to get back to you on that one |
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eppur_se_muova (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 07:20 PM Response to Reply #50 |
76. Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself. |
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Auggie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 02:40 AM Response to Reply #4 |
31. I'm not insulted. But I am disappointed by the use of that term. |
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yellowcanine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-23-09 11:12 AM Response to Reply #31 |
92. More accurate and inclusive to say "non believers" though. "Atheists" generally assumed to mean |
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smiley (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 02:47 AM Response to Reply #4 |
32. wow... I'm surprised that you wer insulted by this. |
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ShadesOfGrey (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 08:30 AM Response to Reply #32 |
54. Good point! |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 07:23 PM Response to Reply #54 |
78. Atheist and non-believer mean the same thing -- a lack of belief. |
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DUlover2909 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 06:38 PM Response to Reply #32 |
72. I can try to give it a whack, rhetorically. |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 07:21 PM Response to Reply #32 |
77. Um, it's not established that gods CAN'T be proven. Only that they never HAVE been. |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 04:32 AM Response to Reply #4 |
44. bwahahahahah. |
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Divine Discontent (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 04:48 AM Response to Reply #4 |
45. at least he acknowledged your non-belief of religion in complimentary fashion. eom |
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TerribleLarryDingle (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 02:01 PM Response to Reply #4 |
65. Your kidding right? |
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damntexdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 05:56 PM Response to Reply #4 |
68. Actually, I think he said 'unbeliever.' |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 06:26 PM Response to Reply #4 |
70. One doesn't believe in science. One accepts its demonstrable facts. |
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Merlot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 08:27 PM Response to Reply #4 |
82. But aren't you a non-believer in religions? |
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create.peace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:26 AM Response to Reply #2 |
5. yes, i would have preferred freethinkers, but.... |
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Alcibiades (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:24 AM Response to Original message |
3. Say what? |
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rhett o rick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 01:08 AM Response to Reply #3 |
20. That's much better. nm |
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DUlover2909 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 06:42 PM Response to Reply #3 |
73. LOL. That's true. HERETIC! BURN THE WITCHES! |
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Turborama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:32 AM Response to Original message |
8. K&R Thanks N/T |
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Doctor Cynic (965 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:33 AM Response to Original message |
10. But he didn't mention Bhuddists! Or Jainists! Or Sikhs! Or Pastafarians! |
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Mojorabbit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 01:40 AM Response to Reply #10 |
25. or pagans.....nt |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 09:24 AM Response to Reply #10 |
57. Buddhists are non-believers, Jains are neither believers nor non-believers |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 07:24 PM Response to Reply #57 |
79. Um, Pastafarians are JOKING. |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 09:13 PM Response to Reply #79 |
84. So was L. Ron Hubbard |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-23-09 11:22 PM Response to Reply #84 |
96. That would be so ironic, considering virtually every Pastafarian is actually an atheist... |
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SnoopDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:45 AM Response to Original message |
12. 'Non believers' - Is that a reference to ... |
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foo_bar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:47 AM Response to Original message |
13. you know, we might have gotten a stealth liberal into office |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 03:42 AM Response to Reply #13 |
39. Don't get too excited - Tony Blair said this kind of thing all the time |
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foo_bar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 04:25 AM Response to Reply #39 |
43. I know, stiff upper lip. |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 04:52 AM Response to Reply #43 |
47. Yeah, I reckon Obama's good for a variety of reasons - there may just not be much to read into this |
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foo_bar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 09:31 AM Response to Reply #47 |
58. "they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy..." |
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marasinghe (754 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 08:30 PM Response to Reply #58 |
83. your mouth - to the non-deity's ears. ;-) here's to hope; & change. (n/t) |
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foo_bar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-22-09 01:25 AM Response to Reply #83 |
86. Day 2: looking pretty damned good |
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buzzard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 12:54 AM Response to Original message |
17. As a scientist and agnostic I found it refreshing. n/t |
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motocicleta (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 01:06 AM Response to Original message |
19. That was great, wasn't it? |
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caseymoz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 01:21 AM Response to Original message |
22. I'm an atheist and I found it pleasantly surprising. |
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smiley (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 03:00 AM Response to Reply #22 |
36. true buddhists don't believe in a god |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 01:26 AM Response to Original message |
23. Well, I'll take "non-believer" for now .... |
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CadenBlaker (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 01:39 AM Response to Original message |
24. I shouted out loud when he said non believers! |
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JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 08:02 AM Response to Reply #24 |
52. Me too! |
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Iggo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 01:44 AM Response to Original message |
26. He should've said "atheists and agnostics." |
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Enthusiast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 02:29 AM Response to Original message |
28. He did the best he could considering |
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Iggo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 10:13 AM Response to Reply #28 |
59. Exactly. |
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pop goes the weasel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 02:32 AM Response to Original message |
30. broken link |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 03:26 AM Response to Reply #30 |
38. Too late for them to edit, but here it is: |
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Duer 157099 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 03:47 AM Response to Original message |
40. Only thing better would have been "non-make-believers" |
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Divine Discontent (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 04:49 AM Response to Reply #40 |
46. I'd rather he stay mature about it instead of condescending either side as you wish for. eom |
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DesertDiamond (838 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 03:48 AM Response to Original message |
41. I've learned the value of baby steps |
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eilen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 08:03 AM Response to Reply #41 |
53. i liked that he said that and |
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meowomon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 05:51 AM Response to Original message |
48. He is a true American President |
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lanlady (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 06:53 AM Response to Original message |
49. I was delighted by his reference to non-believers |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 09:16 AM Response to Original message |
56. About time we are acknowledged without derision. |
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bitchkitty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 11:13 AM Response to Original message |
61. Imagine no religion... n/t |
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ObamaRules (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 01:54 PM Response to Original message |
63. Obama is going to do his best to include all Americans |
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daleo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 05:48 PM Response to Original message |
66. How about "non-believers" and "non-non-believers" |
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damntexdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 05:54 PM Response to Original message |
67. I cheered. Right there in the front of the room, I just automatically cheered. |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 06:25 PM Response to Original message |
69. I was very happy to see him acknowledge we atheists. The nonreligious are citizens, too. |
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marasinghe (754 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 08:21 PM Response to Original message |
81. cheers. feeling better about the Prez; awaiting his activist chops in action. (n/t) |
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llmart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-21-09 09:45 PM Response to Original message |
85. As a nonbeliever....... |
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yellowcanine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-23-09 11:06 AM Response to Original message |
91. That will probably be enough to trigger a Pat Robertson fatwa right there. |
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maxsolomon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-23-09 05:03 PM Response to Original message |
94. every believer in a particular religion is a non-believer in the others. |
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