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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 10:58 AM
Original message
States Face Decisions on Who Is Mentally Fit to Vote
Source: NYT

Advocates for the mentally ill are trying to secure voting rights while concern mounts about the risks of voting by people with conditions like dementia.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/19/us/19vote.html?th&emc=th



Hans Von Spakovsky may well end up with a position on the Federal Election Commission due to republican legislative maneuvering. If that happens it won't be dementia that keeps some from securing their voting rights. He prevented legitimate voting rights cases from being initiated according to DOJ underlings speaking out Monday.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/letter-rules-vonspakovsky/

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003464.php


We have big problems people and the American public thinks their world isn't affected by this stuff. the world is a different place and gthe citizenry isn't willing to voice any outrage about it. drip drip drip the votes are already being stolen
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. The mentally ill already have voting rights.
In this country we call them the "religious Right."
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. You really have that right....a great many religious people are mentally
ill and delusional..they should be the first to go...
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well, it seems to me millions of mentally ill
people are voting already. How the hell else can you explain that the last two elections were close enough for the repukes to steal.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Agreed. The last 2 presidential elections
prove there are millions of insane voters. Too many.
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. rather: Who is mentally fit to be elected? nt
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
4. I know a right winger who's dumber than a rock.
Shouldn't rocks get to vote too?
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Your post is demeaning to all rocks. Shame.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. You're right. I feel like crawling under a Republican.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. You are pardoned.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. LOL. Now THAT's
disgusting.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. People who think Saddam ordered the 9/11 attacks should not be allowed to vote
nt
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. Some in the 9/11 dungeon here should not be allowed to either (nt)
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. ...
...

Thanks for posting!!!!
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1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
9. Does the Constitution state that one must be mentally sound to vote?
I hadn't heard of that Constitutional restriction. :shrug:
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. No, and I have seen people who are clearly out of their trees voting
They do have rights.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
15. "...the American public thinks their world isn't affected by this stuff."
Where do you get your ideas of "the American public"?

There are thousands of grass roots progressive Democratic groups, unions, non-profit groups, and millions of activists working on issues like these, issuing press releases, holding events, holding rallies, attending hearings...

They never get any air time.

"..the citizenry isn't willing to voice any outrage about it." How do you know this?

I sympathize with your cry of agony--but do beware of how your impression of "the American public" is formed. I think the war profiteering corporate news monopolies are really doing a number on us about this. It is their one and only propaganda victory--convincing the members of the peace-minded, progressive, and very concerned majority that they are in the minority.

Back in Feb. '03, just before the Iraq War started, 56% of the American people opposed it. 56%! That would be a landslide in a presidential election. But did you ever hear about this BIG MAJORITY? Did the corporate news monopolies reflect their views, to any degree, let alone adequately? Nope. According to the corporate news monopolies, the country was all flag-waving and hot with war fever.

I made a point of reviewing the polls, cuz I wanted to know: Had my country gone nuts, or was something else going on? Across the board in all polls--ranging from 54% up to 56% (NYT)--majority opposition to the war. And that was with a lot of disinformation about WMDs and Iraq being connected to 9/11 rattling around in peoples' heads. Now it's reached an overwhelming 70%! And still you wouldn't know it watching/hearing the war profiteering corporate news monopoly TV/radio broadcasts, or reading the big papers and news magazines that are subsidiaries of these monopolies.

I think it's true on all issues. (I've reviewed other polls as well.) A huge majority for social justice, fairness, tolerance, good government, accountability, environmental protection--views that are almost NEVER expressed in the fascist news/opinion monopolies.

I actually think the American people are much better informed than anyone gives them credit for--especially given the barrage of fascist propaganda that they are subjected to. By word of mouth, or the internet, or just their own good common sense, most of them know what's going on. A lot of them even know that the voting machines are rigged (the most suppressed news story of all time). But they are mystified as what to do about it. It is unprecedented. We have suffered a fascist coup. We have never faced this circumstance before. We have always had SOME way to eventually assert our sovereignty and rein in government excess, or accomplish some needed reform. The rigged voting machines cut off our ability to change things by our direct assertion of power to hire/fire our representatives.

I think we can still get the vote counting system unrigged, by activism at the state/local level, where ordinary people still have some influence. These machines are the ultimate blockade for preventing change. Transparent vote counting is the most fundamental requirement of democracy.

Just imagine if we had a nationwide referendum right now on the war. We would be out of Iraq tomorrow. 70% of the people are opposed to the war. So don't blame the American public. IF their votes were counted, and thus resulted in proper representation of their views, our nation would correct its course. I don't blame them for not fixing the rigged voting system yet, either. As I said, the story has been "Iron Curtained" not only by the corporate news monopolies, but also by our Democratic Party leadership--mind-boggling as that is. It's taking longer to get the word out and to find an effective strategy to restore transparent vote counting. It happened so fast (2002 to 2004), and now the "trade secret" code is locked in--entrenched, surrounded by corrupt officials and politicians. It's up to the rest of us, who know about it, to keep plugging away at informing people, and eventually critical mass will be reached--and it will be like the civil rights movement in the '60s, where virtually the entire nation seemed to suddenly wake up and say, "Segregation? Poll taxes? Lynchings? "Colored" and "White" drinking fountains? No! No way! That's insane! That's unfair! That's wrong!"

"Trade secret" vote counting, under the control of rightwing Bushite corporations is obviously insane, unfair and wrong. And it will become impossible for the fascists to maintain otherwise.

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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. excellent reply peace patriot,, your insight is informed and right.
I generally think when a government is this out of control and bent on driving fear into the psyche of the public, the public( more than 56%) ought to do more than the usual to correct this. when the government is feared we ought to see far more concerned citizens actively working to reverse this. Just an estimate but I don't think 56% of the public is as informed or working as hard as you and others are to change this. Or its just to quiet for me. either way your points are most appreciated.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I think the amount of protest is significantly downplayed by the corporate
news monopolies and by politicians/office holders (sometimes depending on the issue). So we don't really know how many letters and phone calls, and button-holings of politicians/office holders at events, and other forms of protest are occurring.

Secondly, I think the war profiteering corporate news monopolies' one propaganda success has been at demoralizing and disempowering the majority, who are against unjust war, and for peace, justice and fairness. People are mystified, bewildered by government lawlessness, and horrors like torture and the slaughter in Iraq, and often feel alone in their views--when in truth their views are shared by a huge majority. This condition--how easily the corporate news monopolies can get under people's skins and make them feel isolated and alone--is partly due to our corporatized, alienated culture--life ruled by the automobile, lived in shopping malls, with broken up communities and families, and bombarded with glitzy and meaningless shit on TV, and news/opinion that is shaped into fascist "talking points"--news/opinion that makes people angry, but they don't know what to do about it. They don't know how to influence things any more. Their opinions don't count--if they believe the TV (or it gets to them subliminally). And it's true--that the 5 fascist billionaire CEOs who put out all this tripe on TV/radio talks shows and in the opinion pages, the Bushites and half the Democratic Party leadership, don't give a fuck what the American people think. They are into forcing people to think their way or despair--or, in the case of the War/Corporate Democrats, they are into fooling people about what they think, and then doing the opposite of what they say. People vote, and donate to campaigns and causes, and nothing changes. And they don't really understand why their votes and their views don't matter any more.

In some ways, we are more deprived than the poorest people in the shantytowns of Caracas. At least they now have a government they can believe in, and a common cause. Many of them do not have televisions. They find things out by word of mouth, by depending on neighbors and community. In this way--by ignoring or not having access to TV, which was spewing lies and fascist propaganda during the 2002 violent military coup attempt against the Chavez government (the TV station RCTV was actively involved in the coup)--the people of Venezuela, many from the poor parts of town, spread the word about what was really happening, and poured into the streets, surrounded the presidential palace and defeated the coup by their numbers. The coup had kidnapped the elected president, Hugo Chavez, and suspended the Constitution, the National Assembly (Congress) and the courts, and had sent riotous (and murderous) rightwing mobs into the streets. This was all with the direct collusion of the corporate media. And the people, the poor and middle class who far outnumber the rightwing, reversed the coup, peacefully, by surrounding the palace, in the tens of thousands. They forced the coup plotters to restore Constitutional government and return the kidnapped Chavez unharmed. (See the DVD "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised"--a remarkable documentary, available at www.axisoflogic.com.) It was the most important positive event in the modern history of South America, and perhaps the most important positive event in our hemisphere in the last four decades. Latin Americans defeated a military coup--peacefully! They restored lawful government.

Venezuela is a more concentrated situation than we have here, in this sprawling, multicultural country of ours. So I don't know that things could happen here the way they happen there. But I think the significant difference between our two peoples' is the frequent lack of community here, the success of corporate tactics of alienation and "divide and conquer," and the still maturing grass roots democracy movement here, which can get out the vote, and raise lots of money (for the bloated campaign chests--money that goes right to the corporate news monopolies, for campaign ads--alas!), but hasn't quite found the formula for national cohesion. Also, the South Americans are rather experienced at the vile and bloody tactics of fascist government, U.S. interference and U.S.-backed corporate exploitation (and disinformation). We are not. It's hard to get it through our heads that we have suffered a fascist coup, and that we are now a "banana republic."

Our fascist coup has been rather clever, and has treated the American public rather gingerly. It is a dangerous public, when aroused--dangerous to the corporate rulers, dangerous to the war profiteers--which, of course, is WHY they installed a rigged voting system. Remember Seattle '99--50,000 ordinary Americans shutting down the WTO--it was awesome! And it was the harbinger of this 70% against the war. If the American people do get organized, and find national cohesion around certain things like the war, the fascists and corporatists are very big trouble. But so far they've mostly picked on the most vulnerable groups--the poor who sign up for military service, black and other minority voters, "illegal aliens, poor workers, the elderly. They are robbing everyone, and destroying the country for everyone, but have successfully driven wedges between different groups. Notice, however, what has happened with the U.S. Attorneys--privileged white Republicans getting the shaft from dumbell 'christian' Rovebot lawyers, for having a standard of ethics. When people like that get mad, you know the junta is in trouble. And the vast majority of the country is already made, just not well-organized.

Regarding our 56% who were against the war from the beginning, and the overwhelming 70% against it now, it may be that they are not as well informed as many activists, and don't or can't get politically active themselves (remember, a lot of people have three jobs these days, and are suffering hardship unknown to them before, and a lot of demoralization), but I find their views remarkable, under the circumstances. We don't have to convince anybody of anything. We don't have to argue so much with rightwing stupidity. We just have to re-empower and RE-ENFRANCHISE people. WE are the MAJORITY! The progressive left!
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ryanmuegge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
17. Things ge more Orewellian by the day.
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