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ECH1969 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-07-06 07:46 PM Original message |
Concern Growing Over U.S. Troops' Ammo |
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Kagemusha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-07-06 07:49 PM Response to Original message |
1. The "seven times" thing is a dead ringer for a story from Somalia |
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enfield collector (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 10:46 PM Response to Reply #1 |
115. roger that, the somalies were all |
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Downtown Hound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-07-06 07:52 PM Response to Original message |
2. To anyone who's ever read the book Black Hawk Down |
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hobbit709 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-07-06 07:53 PM Response to Original message |
3. If you've ever seen someone hit by |
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tabasco (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 05:11 PM Response to Reply #3 |
39. Absolutely. The M16 is extremely lethal. |
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TomInTib (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-07-06 08:05 PM Response to Original message |
4. We used 47s whenever we could get them |
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Javaman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 08:52 AM Response to Reply #4 |
16. I heard some amazing stories about AK-47's and... |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 09:04 AM Response to Reply #16 |
63. A friend who was in VN said you could find an AK47 in a puddle of mud... |
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Earth_First (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-07-06 08:16 PM Response to Original message |
5. Easy there soldier. If the DOD determines that you were utilizing an AK47 |
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BrotherBuzz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-07-06 08:35 PM Response to Reply #5 |
7. So Lt. Col. Mark Young's boys lost their SGLI benefits? |
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Earth_First (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-07-06 08:43 PM Response to Reply #7 |
9. I'll look into it...however... |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-07-06 08:31 PM Response to Original message |
6. I'm wondering whether we have a new scandal |
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NYC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 11:21 PM Response to Reply #6 |
59. Where are the bullets made? Serious question. |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 10:00 AM Response to Reply #59 |
66. I don't know |
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yorgatron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 12:20 PM Response to Reply #59 |
73. turns out some of it is made in Israel. |
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davepc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-07-06 08:38 PM Response to Original message |
8. This same issue rears its head every conflict since Vietnam |
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ret5hd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-07-06 08:58 PM Response to Reply #8 |
10. well, is the AK the ford-apple or the chevy-microsoft? |
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davepc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-07-06 09:11 PM Response to Reply #10 |
11. the point is that there isn't a right answer. both involve trade offs... |
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saigon68 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 10:45 AM Response to Reply #11 |
18. Try to carry an M-14 all day with hundreds of rounds |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 11:21 AM Response to Reply #18 |
28. the M14 was a big rifle. It worked well, but yes I can see where |
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saigon68 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 11:30 AM Response to Reply #28 |
30. We used cigarette filters |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 11:39 AM Response to Reply #30 |
31. I didn't have to go in combat. I got sent to Africa. |
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saigon68 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 11:43 AM Response to Reply #31 |
32. As it turned out-- You didn't miss much |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 12:08 PM Response to Reply #32 |
35. LoL By the time I left the service, the insiders were coming to |
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catmandu57 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 09:29 AM Response to Reply #30 |
65. A good friend of mine was in there 66/67 |
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sidpleasant (376 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 10:37 AM Response to Reply #11 |
68. M-14 vs. AR-15 |
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SC-Texas (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 07:33 PM Response to Reply #68 |
98. Experts? What Experts? |
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enfield collector (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 10:44 PM Response to Reply #98 |
114. I think you mean the experts that picked |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 09:15 PM Response to Reply #10 |
55. The M16 is the mini Cooper |
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fshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 07:50 PM Response to Reply #8 |
48. And Korea. |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-07-06 09:41 PM Response to Original message |
12. One more reason to get the fuck out of there. |
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Pavulon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-07-06 10:08 PM Response to Original message |
13. 556 nato |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 05:04 PM Response to Reply #13 |
38. 55-grain 5.56x45 fragmented very well... |
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Pavulon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 05:16 PM Response to Reply #38 |
40. I had read that |
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Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-07-06 11:14 PM Response to Original message |
14. 135,000 troops cannot hold Iraq. |
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davepc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 12:07 AM Response to Reply #14 |
15. so switching to a larger round would improve things? |
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Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 07:40 PM Response to Reply #15 |
47. No it won't improve a thing, just will make matters worse. |
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sendero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 09:18 AM Response to Original message |
17. I'm not sure about this.. |
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TX-RAT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 10:50 AM Response to Reply #17 |
20. HP's illegal |
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sendero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 10:54 AM Response to Reply #20 |
21. Seems kinda silly doesn't it? |
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TX-RAT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 10:59 AM Response to Reply #21 |
24. I agree on the silly part |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 11:01 AM Response to Reply #24 |
26. Even the AP and incendiary, etc. rounds are fully jacketed |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 11:00 AM Response to Reply #21 |
25. Yes, one of the Geneva Conventions bans hollow-point ammo |
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sendero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 11:14 AM Response to Reply #25 |
27. Good point.. |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 10:01 PM Response to Reply #25 |
57. I think that was actually the Hague |
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renegade000 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 10:15 PM Response to Reply #21 |
58. theoretically wounding someone |
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realisticphish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 10:49 AM Response to Original message |
19. This reminds me of WWII |
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TX-RAT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 10:57 AM Response to Reply #19 |
22. Soldiers story |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 05:42 PM Response to Reply #19 |
43. Probably apocryphal... |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 09:09 AM Response to Reply #19 |
64. I was told the M-1 "would take the bark off a tree." It was too much ... |
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realisticphish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 10:10 AM Response to Reply #64 |
67. well |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 11:18 AM Response to Reply #67 |
69. You are correct. The Garand is the beast, not the carbine. nt |
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TX-RAT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 11:36 AM Response to Reply #69 |
71. And it consumed thumbs, at an astounding rate. |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 03:52 PM Response to Reply #71 |
79. Oh, I forgot about that. But his doctors said the M-1 Garand |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 04:51 PM Response to Reply #79 |
85. The M1 Garand fired the .30-06 Springfield cartridge... |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 10:59 AM Response to Original message |
23. Yet when the same round was used by the DC-area "snipers", |
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Paladin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 07:00 PM Response to Reply #23 |
44. Why Don't You Tell All The Nice People...... |
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Pavulon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 07:18 PM Response to Reply #44 |
46. Snipers |
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Paladin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 12:07 PM Response to Reply #46 |
72. Earth To Gun Activists |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 04:40 PM Response to Reply #72 |
83. "Scope-sighted" and "at a distance" would exclude those clowns... |
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Paladin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 05:38 PM Response to Reply #83 |
88. "An Unmagnified Holgraphic/Collimator Type Sight" |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 08:35 PM Response to Reply #88 |
109. That's "holographic" :) |
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luvmyAR (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 09:20 PM Response to Reply #72 |
112. assault weapon |
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Retired AF Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-10-06 12:49 PM Response to Reply #72 |
123. At least all of us "gun activists" |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 08:40 PM Response to Reply #44 |
53. Taking potshots at 40 yards with a rifle? |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 02:43 PM Response to Reply #44 |
78. A sniper is a highly proficient, trained, specialized marksperson |
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Retired AF Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-10-06 12:46 PM Response to Reply #44 |
122. maybe because |
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Paladin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-10-06 01:14 PM Response to Reply #122 |
124. Why Don't You Consult The Sniper Worshipers' Handbook..... |
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Retired AF Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-10-06 01:56 PM Response to Reply #124 |
125. Don't have to |
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Igel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 11:29 AM Response to Original message |
29. On the other hand, more lethal |
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The Stranger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 12:41 PM Response to Reply #29 |
36. That's because when you shoot live rounds at civilians, they often die. |
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Igel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 05:17 PM Response to Reply #36 |
41. The point being not that civilians aren't shot; |
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Pavulon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 05:29 PM Response to Reply #41 |
42. The 556 nato |
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pokercat999 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 12:47 AM Response to Reply #41 |
61. I think if I was in Iraq I'd blow my own brains out with |
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Tanam (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 04:49 PM Response to Reply #61 |
84. Thats plain stupid |
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pokercat999 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 07:45 PM Response to Reply #84 |
99. gee forgot my little sarcasm icon.......dummy |
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TX-RAT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 08:22 AM Response to Reply #29 |
62. more lethal ammo would also raise the civilian death count? |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 11:47 AM Response to Original message |
33. Whoa! "...better suited for shooting squirrels than the enemy"??? |
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yorgatron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 12:07 PM Response to Reply #33 |
34. are they outsourcing AMMO production? |
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NYC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 11:37 PM Response to Reply #34 |
60. I think they are. |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 04:32 PM Response to Original message |
37. The 5.56x45mm is among the least powerful of all rifle rounds... |
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Paladin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 07:05 PM Response to Reply #37 |
45. Why Don't You Convey This Information...... |
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Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 08:00 PM Response to Reply #45 |
49. It's not underpowered, the bullet is meant to rip right through a person |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 08:28 PM Response to Reply #45 |
52. At point-blank range, |
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Paladin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 12:25 PM Response to Reply #52 |
74. Let's Do The Numbers, Shall We? |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 04:34 PM Response to Reply #74 |
82. OK, name five common centerfire rifle cartridges LESS powerful than .223 |
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kineneb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 08:08 PM Response to Original message |
50. Isn't there also a reliability issue |
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Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 08:15 PM Response to Reply #50 |
51. In Vietnam, the original M-16 would overheat and prone to jamming. |
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Retired AF Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-10-06 02:03 PM Response to Reply #51 |
126. During the Vietnam era |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 09:10 PM Response to Reply #50 |
54. The M16 and its civilian cousins |
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kineneb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-08-06 09:50 PM Response to Reply #54 |
56. so... |
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Posteritatis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 02:16 PM Response to Reply #56 |
75. IIRC, a lot of US weapons were meant for combat in Europe. (confirm?) (nt) |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 04:57 PM Response to Reply #75 |
86. Most likely. |
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Posteritatis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 02:17 PM Response to Reply #54 |
76. What's arcminute refer to, anyway? |
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BrotherBuzz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 02:41 PM Response to Reply #76 |
77. Arc minute |
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Posteritatis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 04:24 PM Response to Reply #77 |
81. I am become en-clued - thanks! (n/t) |
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ConcernedCanuk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 11:26 AM Response to Original message |
70. Stop shooting civilians! - That'd save a lot of bullets, no? |
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formercia (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 04:20 PM Response to Original message |
80. Ma Deuce is the best weapon for recon by fire. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 05:28 PM Response to Reply #80 |
87. Deleted message |
BrotherBuzz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 05:39 PM Response to Reply #87 |
89. An army SEAL? |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 05:48 PM Response to Reply #89 |
91. Deleted message |
BrotherBuzz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 05:58 PM Response to Reply #91 |
92. OK, Mattel made all the M16's issued to Army SEAL's |
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jtb33 (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 05:45 PM Response to Reply #87 |
90. ROFLMAO! |
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enfield collector (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 06:00 PM Response to Reply #87 |
93. you can get a lot of good intel at gun shows, a force recon marine |
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SC-Texas (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 07:26 PM Response to Reply #87 |
96. Dear Doctor . . . . . .You are mistaken |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 07:29 PM Response to Reply #96 |
97. Deleted message |
Brother Buzz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 08:26 PM Response to Reply #97 |
108. Did I meet you, your uncle and Oscar at a gun show a few years ago? |
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-..__... (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 08:41 PM Response to Reply #87 |
110. Eh? WTF? |
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Hammit (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 10:16 PM Response to Reply #110 |
113. The 10/22 |
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TrogL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 06:09 PM Response to Original message |
94. 7.62 mm is NATO standard |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 06:23 PM Response to Reply #94 |
95. Deleted message |
Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 07:59 PM Response to Reply #95 |
100. Deleted message |
Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 08:06 PM Response to Reply #100 |
102. Deleted message |
Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 08:19 PM Response to Reply #102 |
105. Deleted message |
-..__... (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 08:50 PM Response to Reply #94 |
111. That's only for crew served machine guns or light machine guns. |
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Tanam (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 08:05 PM Response to Original message |
101. I agree |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 08:14 PM Response to Reply #101 |
103. Deleted message |
Rose Siding (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 08:18 PM Response to Reply #101 |
104. You agree with doing what for the children? |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 08:22 PM Response to Reply #104 |
106. Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 08:26 PM Response to Reply #104 |
107. Deleted sub-thread |
AntiOligarchist (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 11:17 PM Response to Original message |
116. Can't The Military-Industrial Complex Pick up the Slack? |
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Tanam (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-10-06 12:18 AM Response to Reply #116 |
118. You read to much |
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AntiOligarchist (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-10-06 12:44 AM Response to Reply #118 |
119. Yes, |
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kozmo (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-09-06 11:45 PM Response to Original message |
117. If the 5.56 is such an effective combat weapon round... |
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Endangered Specie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-10-06 03:24 AM Response to Original message |
120. I think a major part of the problem is relying on one specific round |
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SC-Texas (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-10-06 12:11 PM Response to Reply #120 |
121. Problems w/ the round |
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maddezmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-10-06 02:35 PM Response to Original message |
127. locking |
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