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NYT/AP: Vatican Issues Sweeping Condemnations (on "family" issues)

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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 09:30 AM
Original message
NYT/AP: Vatican Issues Sweeping Condemnations (on "family" issues)
Vatican Issues Sweeping Condemnations
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: June 6, 2006

VATICAN CITY (AP) -- The Vatican issued a sweeping condemnation Tuesday of contraception, abortion, in-vitro fertilization and same-sex marriage, declaring that the traditional family has never been so threatened as in today's world.

The document was issued by the Pontifical Council for the Family, whose head, Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, is a strong opponent of the use of condoms under any circumstances.

However, the document did not mention an ongoing debate within the Vatican on whether the Roman Catholic Church could permit condoms to battle AIDS in a particular circumstance -- when one partner in a marriage has the virus.

It reaffirmed the famous 1968 encyclical ''Humanae Vitae'' that stated the Vatican's opposition to contraception. Since then, it said, couples ''have been limiting themselves to one, or maximum two children.''

''Never before in history has human procreation, and therefore the family, which is its natural place, been so threatened as in today's culture,'' said the 57-page document (which) also condemned in-vitro fertilization, artificial insemination and the use of embryos....

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Vatican-Contraception.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. I just can't stop crying about the threatened 'traditional family'! What
ever happened to the family of man? To the Christian believe that all of us are the children of God?
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
2. ''have been limiting themselves to one, or maximum two children.''
When the church allows it's priests and nuns to marry and have families, then they can preach about
procreation.

And molesting children doesn't count!!!
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. Pope Palpatine doesn't realize his traditions aren't mine.
Fuck you, John Ratzinger.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. Perverted sex-obsessed idiotic eunuchs need to STFU
about their grandiose fantasies and allow people who have children and get diseases to their doctors for advice on such matters.

A blanket condemnation of enormously popular and effective practices is not at all helpful.
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RCinBrooklyn Donating Member (421 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
5. Should read: "Homesexual, Nazi Pope chimes in on Marriage"
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AnOhioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
6. More input from the truly irrelevant
They have nothing to add to the discussion except to tell everyone else how to live.

So glad I realized years ago how pointless they have become.
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lfairban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
7. Stuck in the 19th century.
Once again the Vatican seeks to show how behind the times they are.

What they are afraid of is not that the family will not survive, it most certainly will, but that everyone will start to see them as cartoon characters, caricatures of clergy stuck in a bygone era, unwilling and unable to change, and lamenting their previous glory when the faithful followed them in droves.

Sorry guys, we have grown up, and become adults. We don't need you anymore.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
41. More like stuck in the 9th century
I wonder what Christianity would have looked like had the Gnostics won the theological wars.
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Excellent question. Perhaps mankind would have avoided


learning to kill and torture so well. After all, religion, and Christianity in particular, has been our most effective means of population control.

The gnostics were far more spiritual than our modern versions of the monotheistic religions, which concentrate exclusively on dogma and contol.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
8. blah blah blah




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oneold1-4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
9. The "Crusades"
When the crusaders left, the church (Vatican) decided to keep the power by propagating as rapidly as possible. They are still at it!
When christianity in any form, for any self edifying purpose, gives strength to the catholic bigotry, they too are in self destruct.
One great lesson here is that Islam is not growing by providing any more humane type of religion, but by just being there for a void.
There is always a vacuum in humanity when "good" is used wrongly and "bad" takes on the appearance of right, or only maybe better.
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
10. hmmmm ... coordinated?
Did the ex-Nazi and the scion of Nazi supporters colloborate on their announcements? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Southsideirish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Probably some sympathetic neo-con in the Vatican tipped them off this
was coming months ago and Jr. jumped in front of him with his announcement- does look very coordinated.
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
11. Uh, anyone notice they included in-vitro in this?
There's been a lot of speculation whether the Vatican would come out against that, too.

Seems they have. Emphatically.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
12. This is Why My Mother Left the Catholic Church
She knew this Pope was no good at all.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
13. Yay!
Here's hoping that this makes a few more people give up and leave the church!
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
15. The "threat" is still not articulated.
I am mystified by this alleged threat. How does allowing loving couples to marry threaten other couples who are married? Are gays trying to prevent hetero marriages? I didn't get the memo.

And may I suggest that defining life as beginning at conception is arbitrary. One could make the argument that life begins at first breath.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
16. And, tell me, Mr. Pope, is this the same Vatican
that excoriated that little bit of fluff fiction, "The DaVinci Code," because it suggested JESUS HAD CHILDREN?????



Okay, where's the "head exploding" smiley?

:nuke:

That'll do. . . .


Tansy Gold,
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TlalocW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
17. Huh...
The Catholic Church actually thinks it holds some sort of moral high ground in the world? As soon as they stop shuffling child molesters around and hiding their assets from the lawsuits brought about by the people they've abused, maybe people might stop to listen.

TlalocW
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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
18. Vatican =a bunch of old men in dresses.
Edited on Tue Jun-06-06 12:41 PM by DELUSIONAL
And I say -- oh shut the fuck up and put on pants.

(note this is sarcasm --and not an insult to cross dressers. I always find it ironic that a church dominated by men -- telling women what to do -- men who have never been married. And they wear dresses.)
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
19. That's all their good for nowadays - condemning everything that doesn't
fit with their narrow bigoted hateful view of things.

And trying to influence elections.

GET RID OF THE TAX EXEMPTIONS FOR THESE PANDERING HATEFUL MEDIEVAL LUDDITES!
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. Isn't it possible that tax exemptions help to make the Roman Catholic
Church lucrative and that the money incentive will eventually produce enough internal corruption to cause the Roman Catholic Church to collapse?
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. Leaving the Catholic Church will always be one of the BEST...
choices I have ever made.
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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
21. By WHAT "Moral authority" does Pope Eggs Benedict tell me how to live?
Edited on Tue Jun-06-06 03:16 PM by Joe Bacon
Eggs Benedict needs to clean the child molesters out of his church.

When he does, then I'll listen to him.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
39. Joe Bacon/Eggs Benedict - OK, now I'm hungry
MMMMMM

:D
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
22. People who live in glass houses......
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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
23. Pope: "contraception is bad"
Too bad the pope hasn't noticed that this planet is overpopulated. :eyes:


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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
24. IS this the same vatican that wondered where GOD was during
auswitz - same hate - same church - same criminals - why does this not surprize me? They are so disconected from how they cause hate in the world
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jseankil Donating Member (604 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
25. I find a organization who coverup 100's (1000's?) of molesters a threat!
But who am I?
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MorningGlow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
26. Yeah yeah whatever
Is anybody listening to these old guys anymore?

Note: I think Jesus was a nifty guy. But the Church? Feh.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
27. The pope's an irrelevant windbag. n/t
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
28. The vatican needs to release all WWII records, uncensored.
They got some 'splainin' to do.
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
29. to paraphrase my late Grandma
On reproduction: "I don't want to be told how to live my life by a bunch of celebate old men."
On confession: "What I do in my life is between me and God; it is none of their damned business."
...guess that is why she was a Methodist...


I'm with Grandma on this stuff.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
30. BUT the Pope is articulating what the Bush Administration WANTS
Do a little research and you will see it is true. How many times did reporters ask Bush for his stanch of Birth Control? This isn't just about abortion. Who did he appoint to the SCOTUS? Go on the "christian" family organization sites (Concerned Women, Family Research Council, etc). These organizations are the Republicans base. Read how they blast feminism, college women/working women, childless/few children marriages, etc., etc.

They are taking a page out of the Third Reich's handbook and replacing it with Religion. Just the means to an end.
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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
31. Catholic oppositions to condoms = Murder
I want to know why this Pope and his stooges advocate an HIV positive man NOT use a condom with his wife.

In other words, the WANT the wife to die from HIV, too

Yet Eggs Benedict had the gall to go to Auschwitz and bullshit the whole world about the Holocaust, while he condones another holocaust in Africa, Asia and South America.

By his opposition to condoms, ol Eggs is proving to the whole world that Old Nazis never die, they just become Pope. I bet his pal Mengele is happy with Eggs!
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. If the Romans had killed Jesus by putting him into a giant condom and
sealing it shut, then would there have been no resurrection?
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
32. Never before in the history of the Church has their base been
'threatened' by modern culture...ha what a crock of shit. Traditional everything is threatened by contemporary society, been going on forever and won't ever stop. What would the Church know about families, they won't allow anyone 'serving' to have one! Is the Pope married or have kids? No. So what do they know?
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Bear down under Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Isn't that why the Romans persecuted the Christians?
Because they were threatening traditional culture?
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Not defending the church here, but
Edited on Tue Jun-06-06 08:34 PM by LibDemAlways
thought you'd be interested to know that there are married members of the Catholic clergy. Married men can become "deacons" - allowed to officiate at weddings, baptisms, and funerals and preach and assist at mass. Also, there are married Catholic priests - not many, and limited to Protestant ministers who convert - but they do exist.

Very few Catholics I know take any of these pronouncements from the Vatican seriously. There are wingnuts out there, but there are also a lot of good progressive Catholics who trust their own consciences to be their ultimate moral guide.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. I know I was being sardonic.
How can the Pope make a benediction on sex, when no one takes the core tenants seriously!? It is like divorce, something very forbidden but rarely talked about. Hypocrisy of hypocrisies!
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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
35. Yadda yadda yadda
Edited on Tue Jun-06-06 08:03 PM by AnnieBW
Hey, Papa Nazi, go fondle an altar boy and get outta my bedroom!
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
38. Ah, the Catholic Church - always on the cutting edge of society
Looks like they finally made it to the 1960's.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
42. Well ....more and more turn a deft ear to the Pope.
With all the hidden pedophile and secret societies, even the
members of the church are turning their back on the
hiarchy of the church.

Thank you Leonardo Di Vinci.
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