WPpg1:Airline Security Changes Planned(allow scissors,5" knives,icepicks?)

[DeepModem Mom]

Airline Security Changes Planned
Threats Reassessed To Ease Clearance

By Sara Kehaulani Goo
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, August 13, 2005; Page A01


The new head of the Transportation Security Administration has called for a broad review of the nation's air security system to update the agency's approach to threats and reduce checkpoint hassles for passengers.

Edmund S. "Kip" Hawley, an assistant secretary of homeland security, directed his staff to propose changes in how the agency screens 2 million passengers a day. The staff's first set of recommendations, detailed in an Aug. 5 document, includes proposals to lift the ban on various carry-on items such as scissors, razor blades and knives less than five inches long. It also proposes that passengers no longer routinely be required to remove their shoes at security checkpoints....

***

The TSA memo proposes to minimize the number of passengers who must be patted down at checkpoints. It also recommends that certain categories of passengers be exempt from airport security screening, such as members of Congress, airline pilots, Cabinet members, state governors, federal judges, high-ranking military officers and people with top-secret security clearances.

The proposal also would allow ice picks, throwing stars and bows and arrows on flights. Allowing those items was suggested after a risk evaluation was conducted about which items posed the most danger....

***

Some security analysts praised the agency's proposal, saying that security screeners spend too much time trying to find nail scissors and not enough time focused on today's biggest threat: a suicide bomber boarding an airplane. The TSA has very limited capability to detect explosives under a person's clothing, for example, and is trying to roll out more high-tech machines that can protect against such threats....


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/12/AR2005081201557.html

[Mnemosyne]

1. What!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why does it still amaze

me when I hear these things? LOL
Thanks for a good laugh DMMom!

[ixion]

2. isn't that nice that they're making themselves exempt from the

dehumanizing process that is going to the airport these days. :grr:

[daleo]

3. If someone actually wanted another 911 (LIHOP)

It seems to me that this is exactly what they would be doing - loosening restrictions so that box cutters (for example) would be allowed on board airplanes again.

[DeepModem Mom]

4. That's right -- what about box cutters? If the items in the article...

are allowed, I'm assuming box cutters would be allowed again also?

[pitohui]

19. the box cutter myth is just that, myth

once the date passed for pax families to litigate for damages caused by security negligence, it was quietly acknowledged the 9-11 hijackers had more than box cutters

a flight attendant on aa 11 phoned in a report of at least one gun, her recording not released until jan. 04

the recording by cleveland air control of flight 93 hijacking reveals there was a bomb onboard strapped to one of the hijackers

i'm surprised they're doing this, only 4 yrs later, a bit soon to rub people's noses in it that the box cutter story was a lie

but mark my words, many people will still believe the box cutter booshwa in 2101, classic case of a lie traveling halfway round the world ere truth gets its boots on

[daleo]

24. This is good information

Although it could use a link if you have one. The press has done a wonderful job of keeping the box cutter story front and center. It always had its doubtful side, but I thought perhaps if people assumed the hijacking was a routine "land the plane and negotiate" incident they would allow themselves to be intimidated by just box cutters.

[jbuist]

13. Good News

I'm actually happy to hear such news. IIRC knives and boxcutters were always forbidden on flights, but that didn't stop the 9/11 incident from happenng.

This is simply freeing up resources to search for -real- threats instead of false ones. How man items have been confiscated since 9/11 by honest people? How many were confiscated from terrorists? Think about it.

Look, the whole thing is really just false security. I've flown a few times since 9/11 and being a security minded individual I keep my eye out. After passing through the security gate I have found that I can get my hands on (pre boading):

- Glass bottles
- Steak knives
- Hot Coffee (substitute for pepper spray)

One could easily take a sharpening stone through the security gates and turn a BUTTER KNIFE into a decent edge while they sat on the crapper.

[daleo]

14. I am just glad I won't be harassed over my crossbow next time I fly.

Honestly, that was getting to be a drag. Not to mention my spear gun. You never know when you might see a manta ray swimming by in economy class.

This is good news!

[jbuist]

23. Yes, it really is good news.

Honestly, that was getting to be a drag. Not to mention my spear gun. You never know when you might see a manta ray swimming by in economy class.

This is good news!

The WaPo writer found a loophole in the the logic the memo used. We didn't have somebody at the TSA banging away at their keyboard listing out items that they should allow. They made a general statement, and the writer decided that by their definition that would allow other non-reasonable things through.

Do you really want the TSA spending their time looking for pocket knives on 13 year old boy scouts or looking for explosives? I go for the latter, thank you.

The TSA isn't exactly made up of rocket scientists, guys. I'm not saying their dumb, but we're not talking about an elite security force here. When you hamper them with education on how to find knives and other little things you pass up an opportunity to train them on other threats.

I'll give you a few examples:

The TSA doesn't know diddly about parachutes, or guns, it seems. Sky-divers always take their parachutes on planes when they're going to a jump fest (aka: boogie) and wanna know what? They're fairly complex, and you are NOT allowed to dismantle them entirely. It's really a strange situation. The FAA requires a reserve parachute to be repacked by a certified FAA rigger every 120 days. If it is deployed, or unpacked, it must be repacked by a certified FAA rigger before you can bring it on a plane. The TSA could take the whole thing apart for inspection, but they'd have to have an FAA certified rigger put it back together before it would be allowed on a plane.

Perfect payload for a bomb, but they don't know crap about them.

Now, you're thinking that surely the TSA agents would know how to spot a bomb in a backpack, but here's the kicker: There's already a small explosive device in there! Most reasonable jumpers have what's called an Automatic Activation Device (AAD) in their pack which upon decending below a certain altitude (IIRC 700 feet) at a high speed will 'explode' in much the manner that a gun does, and deploy the reserve for you. What's the difference between an AAD and a bomb? Couldn't tell you off the top of my head, and I'd wager most TSA agents can't either. How about we spend some time working on THAT topic during class time instead of Taking Scissors Away from elderly women? Eh?

The other one is guns. I shoot. A lot. I also tote a gun or two with me when I fly. Ammunition comes along too, and while allowed up to 11 pounds I don't think I'm anywhere near that limit. I'd wager that if using 'dummy' rounds without an actual lead projectile you could make some pretty spiffy bombs within that 11 pound limit. Train them on how to properly screen such objects instead of the rest of this drivel.

Get this... last time I flew I went to the check-in counter at my local airport, handed over my ID, and told him I'm flying with firearms. He says "OK." and carries on. He didn't know he had to DO anything. The clerk has to have me open up the case and show him that they are unloaded, but he didn't know that. I then sign a form and so does he to put insidead each case, then they're sent off to the TSA guys, which were thankfully right there, reassuring the guy that I actually did know the legal process. The TSA agents throw my stuff through an X-ray machine and then ask for the keys and combination to open them up. That's a violation of federal law, but I comply because I don't want a hassle. Legally they're required to ask me to open them, not provide a key or combo. I verbally, but in a quiet voice, gave the TSA agent the combo.

Now, there's a reason they aren't supposed to ask for the combo in my mind: If anybody hears that and can relay it to somebody working in baggage handling they can still your stuff. Or, they could drop a bomb in it, because if it got picked up by a scanner as containing explosive residude they'd open it up, see a gun, close it up, and send it on down the line not realizing there was a bomb under the foam padding.

So, there's two scenarios for you that somebody could get a decent sized bomb on a plane and the TSA wouldn't know crap about it because they're not properly educated.

They're damned good at inspecting my keychain, though. Nevermind that my luggage, and probably my clothes, and carry on bag, are SATURATED with explosive residue, at least I don't have a pair of nail clippers on me.

Just a 22 oz glass bottle of soda and some hot coffee. :)

[daleo]

25. Last I heard, luggage was only randomly inspected anyway

Perhaps there has been some change, though. When you think about it, there are an incredible number of ways to endanger a plane. It is remarkable that there aren't more disasters.

I hardly ever bother with carry-on anymore. It just doesn't seem worth the trouble.

[pitohui]

21. no boxcutters were perfectly legal on 9-11

you are incorrect, boxcutters were perfectly legal

the boxcutter story was invented precisely because, in order to escape liability for the tragedy, airport security had to explain why they didn't arrest atta after searching him & finding the boxcutters or at least relieving him of these devices, recall that 4 of the 9-11 hijackers were momentarily detained as suspicious before being allowed to board their flights

somebody screwed up

saying it was boxcutters allowed security to pass the blame, they were just following instructions

[uppityperson]

5. Lets see if I understand this

They have the hijacking problem well under control, so it is now ok to carry ice picks, bows and arrows, knives onto planes, and patdowns will be decreased. However, they now need to x-ray everyone and look for fuses because that is the problem. And no one has ever caused a problem on a plane with a knife or ice pick or arrow.

And mass transit is now safe, but terrarists are going to run big truck full of gas or oil or something into somewhere so don't worry be afraid.

I think?

[soup]

20. Thank you for clearing that up.

It wasn't making much sense to me until I read your post. That in itself is an absolutely shocking development since everything done in the name of homeland security has been so logical, methodical and crystal clear up until now.

delving deeper into the details - What do celebrities think about allowing throwing stars on flights? Were they even consulted? Who gets to say who is a star and who isn't? Will someone feel insulted if they're Not thrown? and where is the line drawn? Ahnold is a celebrity, but he's also governor. Does that make him fair game or off limits? Whose insurance is going to cover any injuries incurred during the tossing-abouts? What if they land on someone with an arrow in their lap and get nicked - or worse? Personally, I think this could lead to plane pandemonium and should be reconsidered.

In the ?immortal? words of Clark Griswold
this is crazy this is crazy this is crazy

[uppityperson]

22. You could throw Tom Hanks my way

Peter Jennings and Chris Reeve both died so that rules out 2 of my other favorite stars. Jane Goodall would work. I would love to be able to meet her and having her land on my lap would be a fun way to meet.

[Gormy Cuss]

6. Light dawns on Marblehead

Taking off shoes has never been mandatory if you were wearing the right footwear. I've avoided it by simply asking if it was mandatory, and they had to say no but it was advised, and I walked through.

[Retrograde]

8. seems to depend on the TSA person

I've had the same shoes be OK some days and "must removes" on others - at the same airport.

[Gormy Cuss]

10. I have an excellent "don't mess with me look"

And I carry a copy of the TSA advisory. It's really scary if you think about it, because it's like playing poker. I call their bluff. No doubt a shoe bomber would do the same. It's all a dog and pony show, and that's my objection to it.
There aren't that many shoes that are absolutely allowed, but thin soles shoes and sandals without metal always pass muster with the TSA advisory in hand. I've yet to be 'selected' for secondary screening after doing this. I think if more passengers did the same this whole charade would have ended several years ago.

[wli]

11. hmm, I seem to get secondary screening often

I don't get stripsearched, just magnetic wand waving BS after having to sit and wait for a couple of minutes in the open.

[rexcat]

12. Not quite correct...

At some airports (Cincinnati is one of them) if you don't take your shoes off they automatically put you in secondary screening, pat you down, to the hand manometer thing, search your bags and make you take your shoes off and then they run the shoes through the x-ray machine. If you are lucky they check your hands for "residue." I fly every week and airport security from airport to airport is extremely inconsistent. As the TSA says every six months, based on their audits they are doing no better than what was done prior to 9/11/2001. They do have a nice collection of fingernail clippers and knives with blades in the 2-3 inch range. Now they are getting a really big collection of lighters.

All the security screening at the airports is window dressing for the people who fly a couple of times a year. For the travelers who fly every week it is a joke. Don't get me wrong, I am all for airport security. I want to get home alive at the end of the week just like everyone else but after observing the TSA agents at work week after week they aren't the brightest bulbs in the fixture.

On edit: it is really nice that Congress has exempted themselves. What a bunch of whores.

[Gormy Cuss]

18. Do they claim it's mandated by TSA?

Nice to hear the little emperors are in charge at Cincy.I've heard that some smaller airports do that too. The TSA does not require it. We are required to remove coats, but not shoe. I don't argue with required behavior, no matter how foolish I think it is. I have yet to be called on the shoe removal as long as I have the advisory in hand and am polite about it. The shoe thing ticks me off because it has nothing to do with real security.

I don't need to fly frequently anymore, but when I did I used to catalog the differences in security levels just as a way of amusing myself during the interminable waits. I had many day trips and got very good at the metal detector strip avoidance because then as now, the tolerance levels would vary wildly from airport to airport.I observed lapses in other security procedures all the time. Post 9/11, there was an initial alertness but I noticed that by January 2004 it had slipped back into the old lazy days. I agree with you, I'm all for airport security, but the visible security at the airport is window dressing. I used to love to fly but now I avoid it as much as possible.

[noamnety]

7. One set of rules for them, another set of rules for the rest of us.

Ain't it great that the public gets patted down and felt up, but the public servants are exempt?

[bemildred]

9. What about duct tape and plastic sheeting?

Can we eat the two weeks supply of food yet?

[blackhorse]

15. Well, of course . . .

. . . the icepicks aren't really objectionable unless there are passengers named Trotsky on board!

Cheers

BH

[truthisfreedom]

16. i love the onion!

[DeepModem Mom]

17. Yep -- more and more "Onion" articles these days. nt