Americans didn't flock to Canada after Bush win

[seriousstan]

--cut fluff---

In the days after President Bush won a second term, the number of U.S. citizens visiting Canada's main immigration Web site shot up sixfold, prompting speculation that unhappy Democrats would flock north.

But official statistics show the number of Americans actually applying to live permanently in Canada fell in the six months after the election.

---cut---

"We'll take talent from wherever it is resident in the world. I was absolutely elated to see the number of hits and then my staff said 'You know what? A hit on the Internet is after all just a hit'," he told Reuters on Thursday.


---cut---


Data from the main Canadian processing center in Buffalo, NY shows that in the six months up to the U.S. election there were 16,266 applications from people seeking to live in Canada, a figure that fell to 14,666 for the half year after the vote.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050804/wl_canada_nm/canada_canada_usa_immigration_col_1

[Jacobin]

1. Its not because we didn't want to

[Delphinus]

60. That's right.

I didn't pass the test. :(

[TankLV]

61. Neither did I - too old.

Can't afford not to have an immediate job, either.

Of course, every country would rather have just the wealthy people who don't need to fucking work.

[Lorien]

90. Me either; my income as a self employed person

fell short of the requirement. :-(

[chalky]

129. Same here. My income and savings was the sticking point.

Don't think I (and a few of my friends) didn't look into getting the hell out.

[cmd]

132. I didn't qualify either

Hearing that didn't help me get past the election blues.

[AllyCat]

2. We were told we weren't welcome and that it was illegal n/t

[Maple]

12. Maybe the US media told you that

but it's quite legal and you're very welcome.

Even our PM said so

[AllyCat]

25. D'oh! I fell for it! Keep thinking they will take me as an RN.

Just have to find a needed post for fiance.

[Maple]

26. RNs definitely

dunno what your fiance does, but we have lots of openings here.

[midnight armadillo]

29. Any universities in Newfoundland?

LOL, I took the immigration test & my wife and I are qualified with no job offers (between the two of us: 3 BS, 2 MS, 1 MBA (her), 1 PhD (physics, me)). I've always been interested in visiting Saint John's. Newfoundland seems like an interesting place, sticking way out here into the northern Atlantic. I'll bet the winters can get pretty wild.

Quebec City is someplace I've been meaning to get to visit for years. My wife's family is part French-Canadian.

[Maple]

30. Yes there is

http://www.collegeanduniversityguide.com/colleges_universities/newfoundland/area.htm

It's actually closer to England than to our own west coast.

Lotta rock and outports...pretty though, icebergs float by and whales..gorgeous fijords...first Viking settlement in NA a thousand years ago.

[Canuckistanian]

52. Memorial University

And a damn fine one too.

[nwliberalkiwi]

76. Allycat

Try New Zealand. They need RN's and the unemployment rate is the lowest in the world---they need workers. My wife is an RN and we spent 13 months in New Zealand and loved every minute of our time there. We only came back due to a serious illness in the family. When that runs its' course we will return to New Zealand permanently. If you are under 55 you and a spouse (maybe a significant other) can get Permanet Residency---costs about $1,000. Then you can travel on a New Zealand passport (I plan to see Cuba!) My wife is 51 and I'm 56 so I get Permanent Residency on the coattails of my wife! New Zealand is a really progressive country!!!!!!!!!!! You'll love it!!!!!!!!

[R Hickey]

118. New Zealand is an excellent place

I didn't know about the 55 year old age limit, though.

[redqueen]

82. You mean a couple can't get in if one doesn't have a job offer?

Crap!

I'm working on getting my LVN/RN... was hoping it would get me into Canada.

[AllyCat]

107. Not sure RedQueen

I just assumed that both would need a job in order to travel. But coattails are fine with me if they work for him! Good luck with your schooling and new career. It was totally worth the uprooting of my life to go back to school at nearly 40. I love being a nurse and where I work!

[Seabiscuit]

124. Yeah, what if you're retired and wealthy?

[Seabiscuit]

125. How about, retired, wealthy, and over 55?

Do they only refuse people over 55 who need to work to survive?

[TankLV]

62. Not unless you're independently wealthy and can support yourself

WITHOUT ANY JOB for at least a year or more!

Nice "welcome".

Just like the bullshit that we couldn't bring our own tools to work on our friend's cabin up there - had to buy every fucking thing "in Canada".

Thanks, but no thanks.

[pitohui]

64. no the poster upthread is correct

we're too old and we're not very welcome

cut-off is age 45 on their own website

[enigmatic]

89. Get a sponsor

Someone in Canada; my wife was mine and I'm a permanent resident now.

[LiberalFighter]

130. Why did they say it was illegal?

[carnie_sf]

3. Because Democrats

don't run from a fight, unlike your typical yellow-bellied, lily-livered Repuke

[CountAllVotes]

4. there is nowhere to go

when you are hated. :grr:

:kick:

[KurtNYC]

5. Less than 2% of Canadian immigrants are from the USA

The reason to move to Canada is not because * got a second term but rather because Canada is a great country. In other words it is not a place to flee from the US -- it is a country with a very attractive quality of life.

[redqueen]

83. That's very true.

There are lots of other countries to run to, if one's only goal is to run away.

[tenshi816]

127. Ain't that the truth!

We go to Canada every Easter (Alberta, for our yearly skiing fix) and each year I feel like I'm going someplace I belong. I love everything about Canada (doesn't hurt that Canadians are great people either!), and being a dedicated winter sports enthusiast, I don't even mind the harsh winters.

We passed the test on the website, have education and skills and a nest egg, but I can't get hubby to leave the UK permanently (although he, too, loves Canada). I hope that if I keep working on him, maybe years from now he might consider retiring there.

[bluestateguy]

6. I view this as good

I view running away to Canada as nothing more than Un-American cowardice (though understandable if you are not a US citizen). It leaves the rest of us holding the bag.

[donheld]

19. The temptation was to flee

but like you say, if we all run, who will be here to fight for what we believe in. Running away is like surrendering to the right wing fascists. I hate to see us surrender this great land to any extremist.

[LiberalFighter]

131. Can still fight while in another country...

still have voting rights in US unless you renounce citizenship.

Can mobilize Americans in the country of residence.

Can further educate the foreign citizens about how bad it is in the US and also that most Americans are not that way.

[VegasWolf]

7. We're just waiting for Canada to take possession of some sunny

Caribbean islands.

[ixion]

11. ROFLMAO

:rofl: :woohoo: :applause:

precisely.

[KamaAina]

59. They've actually been talking about it for some time

the islands in question are the Turks and Caicos, a British possession near the Bahamas.

http://www.canadiancontent.net/commtr/article_676.html

Canada has had several talks with the Caribbean country, which is a British colony, all of which have led to absolutely nothing. The main factors on Canada's part has been it's unwillingness to be seen as a neocolonist. The Caribbean islands have been pursuing a union for almost 100 years, and it has popped up yet once again.

The notion started in 1917 when Prime Minister Borden remarked it would be a good idea to annex the country. It popped up again in 1974 when a Canadian Member of Parliament introduced a private members bill to study a relationship between Turks and Caicos and Canada. At that time, Turks and Caicos was going through an election. Canada decided it would best be put off until their election was completed. Time passed and nothing happened.

Back in the 1880s, there was even talk in some sunny Pacific islands -- Hawai'i -- about joining the nascent Confederation rather than eventually being swallowed up by the USA. Dang, we blew it. We'd be the only warm-weather province, plus our population of 1.2 mln would be roughly equivalent to Manitoba's, rather than us being one of the smallest US states.

[VegasWolf]

67. Thanks for the pointer. I remembered the story, but didn't remember

the exact islands. If this ever goes through, and if Canada
allows it, they will have more people there than they can handle.

[More Than A Feeling]

68. Hey, if the islands WANT to be a part of Canada and have for so long...

why would anyone worry about people thinking of Canada as a colonizer?

[iamjoy]

79. Right On VegasWolf

I hate the cold.
I suppose Vancouver isn't too bad. But my Mom probably wouldn't be allowed in (plus my step-father hates the cold more than I do) so I wouldn't want to be too far from them (in Florida).

Why can't they work out some deal to get Puerto Rico?

[Miss Chybil]

8. It's too cold in Canada.

I thought about it, but besides the temperature, we're too poor to move anywhere now. I'll be an American much longer than Bush will be president.

[Jacobin]

13. Vancouver isn't so cold

[Miss Chybil]

36. Vancouver's beautiful, I was there in June about 18 years ago, but...

I'm from Phoenix. Anywhere but here, is cold! I could deal with cold, maybe, but like I said, we're too poor to move!

[LSU_Subversive]

109. yeah...it's actually too warm for me. but, living in louisiana and all

i've pretty much had it with the heat.

[Maple]

16. Its been over 90

since May. We're hoping for a break in the heat

[KurtNYC]

20. I went to Toronto in January

and the sun blazed for all 3 days. Seriously. Temps were 40-degree highs and 20s at night. There was a huge outdoor festival - WinterCity with free concerts and fireworks. If that is as bad as it gets then I don't think the weather would stop me.

[Maple]

28. It depends on where you go

Canada is a huge country, with very few people. We have hot places and cold places, snowy places, rainy places, sunny places....prairies and ocean front...mountains and totally flat terrain....varies a lot.

So far...no hurricanes or earthquakes or volcanos. For the most part we're on a 'shield'...only a few rumblings off Vancouver Island.

[Miss Chybil]

38. 40 degree highs? AUGH! I'm from PHOENIX!

Still, that actually sounds do-able. I always joke I'm allergic to snow, but it's been getting so flippen' hot here lately, I've really been wanting to move. Maybe someday...

[Maple]

39. Well in the summer

you'll be sweltering in the high 90s.

My a/c is going full blast right now.

[Miss Chybil]

43. Mine too. The dollar signs are just rolling before my eyes... nt

[Love Bug]

9. Canada is a great place but

it's not all that easy to immigrate there. Can't just go there because you want to -- there are criteria.

[Megahurtz]

84. Just like anywhere, basically.

I think it's tough to immigrate anywhere, they make it so difficult.

Not everyone had the money to go to a college or University and get a shining degree!
And does that mean that they're less of a person?
No!
And this "too old" rule is bullshit!

This is why the "Points System" fails for a lot of people.

Personally I believe anyone should be able to live anywhere in the world that they want.

Why should a person be trapped in any country when there is a chance for a better quality of life in another?

[firefox]

10. It is still early

If Canada would legalize laughing grass, they would be absolutely swamped with applications.

Changing nations is not all that easy. Some people are in the exploratory stages of moving and with the first hint of a draft, it could change very quickly.

There is also the issue of greater integration, which basically means that Canada will become our political territory. National sovereignty was the biggest issue in the last election.

[Demeter]

37. Yeah! Wait Until 2008

If Bush doesn't vacate, the rest of us might.

[wrlwnd]

106. I heard the same thing from so many about 2004 n/t

[enid602]

14. immigration

I think people are waiting to see if we attack Iran . . . I think that will be the last straw, at least for me. I would not go to Canada, though; probably Argentina. Unless we can get rid of this bunch of jackals, however you probably won't be safe anywhere.

[beyurslf]

15. Too many started checking the average temp there and realized they liked

longer summers :)

[Judi Lynn]

17. Why wouldn't it be a normal conclusion they were checking things out

in advance, with the thought they'd like to have a back-up plan if things truly DO get as goddawful as it seems they could, if the sickest part of our population increases its hold on our government.

[Maple]

18. Well a drop of

2000 isn't much of a drop...14,000 are still keen by the sounds of it. The headline is more than misleading

[KansDem]

21. Canada has a test for getting in...

It has questions about bilingualism (French), trade/professions, having enough savings to live for 6 months without an income, etc.

I took it but didn't pass. I mean, I didn't think Canada would let me enter on a probationary basis with the understanding I get my grade up...

[meganmonkey]

22. Stay and FIGHT!!!

I won't give up that easy. I have often thought of living elsewhere, but not specifically as a reaction to 2004 election or any other particular event. Now I feel like I need to stay and fight for what this nation should be!

:patriot:

[cascadiance]

88. I considered going to Vancouver quite a bit after the election...

... and still may do so at some point. I definitely would like to make a trip up there sometime next year. But at this point, I still want to try and fight the good fight, until it really becomes obvious that fascism will be coming here to stay.

[Lorien]

91. How do you "fight"?

I write loads of letters, work with campaigns and sign petitions-but I can do most of that from anywhere.

[cascadiance]

102. You can also be a "virtual Canadian" from anywhere too! :)

http://www.virtualcanadian.org/

I've got a mug for this too...

[Sterling]

126. The fight as all over but the shouting.

Once we let them own the voting machines the game was over. Plus we have a party of enablers who are making sure people like DUers have no real representation.

Move if you can if that is what you think will save your family. There is no shame in that at this point. The only people who need to be ashamed are those who are elected leaders and those that will not see the writing on the wall on key issues like elections and other "events" like 9-11, anthrax and the war on earth. They are the ones who blew it.

[WMliberal]

23. i didn't met the requirements

since I'm a single, recent college grad, with no meaningful job experience.

I should be eligible by 2008.

[entanglement]

63. Just curious, why do they consider being single a disqualification?

n/t

[WMliberal]

65. i wondered the same thing. It was weighted as much as

a college degree, job experience, etc. :shrug:

[melissinha]

24. My uncle left message he was moving to Australia

After the election. He worked so hard to get the people to the polls in Des Moines..... I left a message for him that I was moving to New Zealand.

Living in Texas is a tad too hot, I miss the winters... Canada would be quite nice.

I took the online preliminary test and barely passed assuming my french speaking boyfriend (who has the backup money) went with me.

Maybe we should all brush up the French... too bad my Spanish fluency doesn't count for much.

[Maple]

27. French isn't a requirement

it just adds points if you're bilingual.

Spanish helps as well.

[youspeakmylanguage]

31. A question for the canucks in the house...

What is the health care system really like in Canada? Do you really have to wait weeks or months for care? Because that is one of the last concerns I have about relocating there.

[StrafingMoose]

32. Being 26 ...

with no major health problems, I can't tell. I never broke anything, and the worst thing I ever had was a partial loss of memory after hitting head on the ice. Had to wait 1 hour then I was with a doctor.

But I think it depends on the region you are. Toronte, Vancouver, Montreal will be alot busier than countryside.

[Maple]

33. I never have

Neither has anyone I know.

Maybe you'll hear from others on here.

[Amonester]

104. I'm 52. I'm still in pretty good shape 'cause I did athletic training

in my teens (Olympic-type swimming competitions). Only last year, I happened to get a small problem. I'm not telling you what it was but it was sudden and painful. I could have let it go away by itself (I know about "medication-less" self-healing techniques), but after one night without sleep, I decided I could not take the risk of having to go through a second one... So I went to the nearest Hospital, and walked-in its Emergency department.

As soon as I got in, I registered for an appointment at the check-in desk there, got my Health-Care plastic card (credit-card size) off my wallet, and gave it to the clerk. She did the paperwork and then, she politely told me I had to wait for my name and door number to be called through the speaker system inside the waiting room.

The place was crowded, but not too crowded. I waited there for no more than 20 minutes. Then the Doctor I saw did everything that had to be done to cure the pain (a localized surgery), and before I left, I went to get my card back, and got a personalized computer-generated schedule for 10 preplanned daily visits at a local clinic (closer to my home). That clinic is a modern (recent) place and I was more than satisfied about the quality of the treatments I got from every Medics there. The wait was between 1 to 10 minutes (depending on how busy the clinic was on each of these days).

All in all, and in my case, the services I received were close to perfect, and I am more than grateful to all professional staff and taxpayers (including me... just kidding). Everything was just fine (again, in my "small" case). I can't say for any difficult case many people have to go through, but I rest assured if anything really bad ever happens to me, I will be treated with respect and I will get excellent health-care services (just wait the wait: something I'm good at).

Hope I could say more, but my friends and I cannot understand why our smaller country does have - and had - these "free" health-care policies (alright, we pay more taxes, and sales-tax on almost everything too) available on demand for the past 35 years, and a 10 times bigger (and richer) country does not (yet)... (??)

[0007]

34. So what is your fucking point?

[Bigmack]

35. Canada wouldn't take us...

We're retired. Tidy little pensions... reasonable nest egg... healthy.

The Canadian consul's office was kind and polite (national traits?) but firm. We could stay 5 months and 29 days, but that's all.

I think they feel that older people will be a drain on the health care system... they HAVE a health care system, you know.

I also think the article is bullshit. We have friends who moved to the Gulf Islands... east of Vancouver Island .... after the takeover in the US, and they report real estate prices going thru the roof from the influx of part-time Americans and their money.

We boat in the area every summer, and we can testify that the prices have skyrocketed for houses ... even ones on the remote islands.

Maybe people haven't moved to Canada because they can't.... not that they wouldn't like to.

You DUers who think Canada is too remote or cold.... just keep thinking that way!

[geckosfeet]

41. I am planning on Hawaii. Its still in the US but a different mindset. nt

[ticapnews]

73. Hawaii might be a good place to go...

because I'm not entirely sure * realizes it's part of the United States :P
Since Republicans love the 1950's so much, his map probably only shows 49 states...

[geckosfeet]

78. Yes. The Hawaiian culture is still very much alive too. It SEEMS like

a different country in that sense. There are still more Hawaiians than off islanders.

[barb162]

92. It's awfully expensive living though

[geckosfeet]

96. Its a little more expensive than where I live now. Worth it though. nt

[barb162]

97. And it is so beautiful.

I have been there many times; I love those green mountains, the whales, and everything else.

[geckosfeet]

119. Lucky you! I went fall 04 for first time. Will go back this winter looking

for housing and examining job prospects.

Where do you go when you go?

[NYC]

42. Age is a factor.

It was one of my "failures". The other was not having a job lined up. I'm 54, but that means that in 11 years I would be retiring at Canadian expense, I guess. Or at least developing medical problems at Canadian expense.

Not that I would have moved immediately anyway. I'll stay here as long as I can stand it, but it would be nice to know that I would be welcome in Canada. It's questionable.

[Eric J in MN]

40. They should compare those six months of the previous year.

Not the six months before.

Seasonal issues.

[Hard_Work]

44. Not gonna cut and run

although my wife and I could, easily. I took the test and passed. I think that REAL Americans, though, are not the type to run away from trouble. Hell, when you think about what America COULD be, you realize that it is worth fighting for. Also, as a Black American, I have too much invested in this country. Running would shame my ancestors...

[Zhade]

45. I pass the skilled worker test, and I have Dutch dual-citizenship...

...due to being born in Holland to USAF parents.

I have resumes up there - and that's the hard part: landing a job before you move.

I'm planning on a trip in maybe February (bonus time) to Vancouver, my goal. I might be able to at least get some interviews.

Landing a job is the only way I can move - I just can't save up 10 grand at the rate I'm bleeding income.

Anyone else ever done this, getting a job before moving to Canada? How excruciatingly hard is it, do you suppose?

[HockeyMom]

46. I would love to move to Canada

Long story which I don't want to get into, my husband got a job in Florida and wants to retire there. I don't want to go to Florida. My daughter has two more years of college here in NY and I am staying here while she is in school.

I will be close to "retirement" age by then, but not yet. If I could find decent housing and a job, I would rather be in Canada than in Florida, not to mention the direction this ENTIRE COUNTRY is headed toward.

Besides which, I hate the HEAT. Man, I thought you're supposed to hate the COLD when you got older? Not ME. If I have another day of 90+ (or even 80s) temps, I think I will go insane.

My daughter played hockey. We met a lot of Canadians in her travels; really nice, cool people. Eh?

[High Plains]

47. The immigration process is difficult and takes time

I'm a US citizen currently in Canada as a "seasonal visitor," meaning I can only stay legally six months. My application for permanent residency is in the works, but that takes 18-24 months.

There is a simple test you can take at the Immigration Canada web site to see if you qualify.

But the declining US dollar (in which I get paid) is killing me! The Canadian dollar was worth about .67 US when I got here a couple of years ago, and now it's about .83 US. Hmmm, maybe that could have something to do with the decline in applications from the US.

I'm in BC, and they tax the hell out of all my vices. Gasoline is about $3 US a gallon, that margarita that cost $3 US in Seattle costs $5 US in Vancouver, and a pack of cigarettes goes for about $8 US. I feel like Health Canada already owes me a lung. On the other hand, the pot is world-class, cheap ($150 US an ounce for the good bud), and untaxed.

Where I live, it seems like half the population is supplementing their incomes by growing a little in the forest or the basement.

[Lisa]

48. remember, everyone -- our temps are in CELSIUS

If you're looking at the weather map, and it's 68 degrees in Seattle and 20 degrees in Vancouver BC -- they're actually equivalent.

Most Canadians live within a couple of hundred miles of the US border. Weather conditions for most of the urbanized portion of our country are actually very similar to the northern states. Sure, if you move from LA or Tampa to Winnipeg, you're going to be cold in the winter. But it would be the same situation if you moved to Fargo!

Trust me -- there isn't some big new law saying that you're all going to be sent back if you try to move up here. And no, there aren't daily anti-American riots in the streets. As for the situation with draft avoidance -- the last time this happened, Canadians forced the government to bend the rules to allow Americans to stay. (We have a similar situation now, with a minority Liberal government and a majority of the public sympathetic to the resisters -- so history could well repeat itself.)

Right now, Americans who are in the military but have come up here because they don't want to serve in Iraq are being treated in the usual way with refugee claimants -- with immigration hearings, not by having the Mounties pick them up and drive them to the border, nor by allowing US authorities or bounty hunters into our country. Even the Conservatives would throw a fit if that happened!

p.s. an additional reason to welcome Americans, particularly those of military age, is because our birth rate is now so low that our population will begin to decrease in about 10 years unless we increase immigration.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

86. 20 degrees celsius...

But how much is that in liters? I always get confused.

[Lisa]

100. 18 kilopascals, give or take a nanosecond (n/t)

[ToeBot]

49. I was too old, too poor and unskilled

I figured it would be a better protest staying here and being a drag on the economy.

[davidinalameda]

50. I'm still waiting for a hot Canadian to swoop me off my feet

and carry me away

[tanyev]

70. I'm lucky enough to have married one,

but we are staying here for now. Waiting to see what happens in 2008. If it's Jeb--that's it.

[Doctor_J]

51. I applied for jobs in

Vancouver (3), Calgary (1), Surrey (1), Burnaby (1), Ottawa (2), Guelph (1), London (2), Toronto (2), and St. Catherines (1). They must not have wanted me THAT bad.

[SmokingJacket]

53. I suspect I'll be going down with the ship.

I've fantasized about moving to Canada, or Sweden, or Ireland, or France...

but I'm an American, and damned if I'll give up my country to those criminals.

Frankly, I think it'll get worse before it gets better... but I think it will get better...

..just hope I live long enough...

[napi21]

54. Hubby and I are close to retiring. I know we can move to Mexico

and still get our US SS benefits deposited into a US account, but not have to deal with the insanity of the US feds.

Anyone know if we can do that in Canada too? I would much prefer to live in cooler temps than GA. and certainly cooller than Mexico!

I applaud you younger folks for wanting to stay and fight, but I've been doing that all my life, and I'm tired now! i still fight a good verbal fight, but I just can't do the marching and picketing anymore.

[Megahurtz]

85. Sure you can

still get your US SS Benefits if you live in Canada.
I know someone who has for years and years. (now deceased)

[CHIMO]

55. Probably

Because Canada already has 32 million Americans.

[demzilla]

56. Too many Tim Hortons

And nothing to do during those long cold winters but eat Timbits and drink beer, leading to obesity and thus to a drain on Canada's national health care system. The Canadians are lucky we're too lazy and stayed put.

[kitty1]

101. We Canadians choose real estate based on proximity to Tim Hortons..

I haven't been to one yet which doesn't have a lineup. It's our version of Starbucks. One on every corner. Their desserts are too good though. A weight watchers nitemare.

[depakid]

57. Canada's immigration laws

especially with respect to having to wait a year or more to "rehabilitate" minor misdemeanors may well have something to do with the figures.

[High Plains]

133. Criminal rehabilitation

I was turned back at the border in 2002 because I had a marijuana distribution felony. (Ironically, pot-friendly Canada doesn't distinguish legally between selling an ounce of pot and a ton of cocaine--it's all drug trafficking. Of course, the actual penalties handed out do reflect the differences.) I went through "criminal rehabilitation." Basically a bureaucratic process, but I had to pay Canada $400 and a lawyer $1000. It took about three months.

I now have a piece of paper officially saying I am not a threat to Canada. Wish I could get one of those from the US government.

[KamaAina]

58. The drop could also be because of the crappy Bush** economy

Most USAmericans applying for residence in Canada are going on behalf of the large USAmerican corps that, sadly, dominate the Canadian economy. Naturally when Bush** puts the US economy in the dumper, the US corps are going to retrench and not send so many people on extended assignments like that.

[area51]

66. Canada

I'd move if I could get a company to hire me.

And for the folks who might like a Canadian to sweep them off their feet.... :evilgrin:

[wisteria]

69. I really considered leaving, but I decided to stay and fight the

repubs.

[wabeewoman]

71. I wanted to go

and was one of the hits on their web page. But then I thought, what the hell, its my country too and I'm going to stay and raise my voice against bush and his cronies. Of course, it is SO much worse than I imagined it could get.

[earth mom]

72. Interesting thread...

DH and I want to move to Canada, and have talked about it quite a bit this past year...but his job keeps us here.

I'm pretty sure that the U.S. has some of the same requirements to legally immigrate to the U.S. that Canada does. No doubt many countries do. Of course if you have money-lots of it that is-you can live anywhere in the world you want to...

[BiggJawn]

74. Immigration requierments too high, job prospects kind of bleak.

Hey, I'm a Broadcast Engineer by training, a VCR mechanic by current gig. How many jobs for that kind of talent they got up there?

Plus, my girlfriend is too old and there is no demand for library clerks, so she wouldn't have been able to come.

We all "hit" their webpage, figured oot the only way we could leave here was as illegals, and decided to buck up and try to ride it out.

No doot aboot it.

[Mari333]

75. I tried to get into Canada

they told me I didnt qualify, even when I begged them and told them my whole story. Oh well.

[nwliberalkiwi]

77. New Zealand

Try New Zealand if your under 55 yrs. old. You can get permanent residency. What a wonderful country. We lived there 13 months and plan on returning permanently. Kiss the USA GOODBYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Megahurtz]

87. New Zealand has always been

my first pick.
But you have to have either a college degree and career or lots of money to go there, right?
What about someone who just wants to start new?:shrug:

[no_to_war_economy]

80. pro: they love hockey ~ con: too cold

[redqueen]

81. One has to make plans.

Gimme a year or two...

[Dr Fate]

93. You wont get rid of real Americans that easily. n/t

n/t

[Baclava]

94. Funny - there's no border on my map...

No "dotted-line" tribal markings either...I believe in migration.
North in the summer and South in the winter.



edit - If you can get me outta my cave - that is.

[TedsGarage]

95. Toronto

I'm in Toronto now, and this place is swarming with immigrants from every-frickin-where. The moment I left my hotel, I saw a gay couple holding hands with their daughter, gave my streetcar fare to a Scot, sat down on the streetcar behind two Chinese women, got directions from a Pakistani, and then took the ferry to Caribana, a festival celebrating Jamaican and Trinidadian culture. I think it's true that youth is what they're looking for. Also, they may be leery that Americans will turn around and move home once Bush leaves office. That said, this would be a great place to live. It's a very walkable city, and there's street life like you wouldn't believe -- bookstores and sidewalk cafes open until midnight, bagpipers in Dundas Square -- because the streets are safe. And I grew up in Michigan, so cold winters and hockey are part of my makeup. But moving to Canada isn't the answer. You can't turn your back on the United States of America. It's in your face wherever you go. All the TV (at least the watchable TV) and movies here are American. So stay at home and make the USA the best country you can. I'll be back to help next week.

[screembloodymurder]

116. I disagree.

Politics isn't the major reason I want to leave the US. It isn't even in the top five. I can't stand the cookie-cutter culture, the hatred, the greed, the lack of environmental reverence, the suburbs, the transportation system, the work ethic (as in no family life), NASCAR, red-necks, Hell I can't even get a good loaf of bread. How are we going to change the people and their culture? It's diseased, it's contagious, it's aggressive, it's spreading.

[Cha]

98. Yeah, we Stayed to fight the SOB

in the Whitehouse. I'll fight Fascism to my dying breath.

But, I'm sure going to Enjoy my Visit to Nova Scotia in September and wish America could be more like Canada..the government that is.

There's Beauty in both places but the bushit regime Stink has permeated Washington D.C. and wherever they go.

[ArchTeryx]

99. I hope I don't sound too presumptuous, but...

I've long thought about at least taking a postdoc in Canada, once I finish my PhD. That WOULD give me the 'preexisting job' they seem to want so much.

I keep hearing conflicting signals; that Canada is desparate for 'braintrusts'...people with higher degrees that can do research and bring grant money in...but I would flunk their immigration requirements with flying colors. I'm a poor, single graduate student with a major health problem and no assets to speak of. And quite frankly, that major health problem is one of the biggest reasons I am considering shipping out. The health care situation in this country is so perilous...and parlous...it may be a matter of survival to me to get under the umbrella of universal coverage.

Even with a PhD.

And I realize that I'm in much better shape, even with so few assets, then alot of folks that might otherwise move to Canada. I just wonder if the 'braintrust' angle is a combination of bad information and wishful thinking. :/

[kitty1]

103. There is definitely a brain drain out of Canada ...

The lucrative benefits and top salaries for American positions are too hard to pass on. Many promising researchers and scientists are working in the States because of the plentiful resources and opportunities which we don't have available to the same degree.
We do have our fair share of innovators. For example; The Canada Arm on the Space Shuttle which has been in prominent use now,as well as other technical advances.It is difficult to compete though with all the influential programs and well funded companies there.

[u4ic]

110. Welcome to DU, kitty1!

:toast:

[kitty1]

134. Thanks U4ic.. Glad to be here!

[ArchTeryx]

113. Thanks!

And this may well happen to me, too. Maybe I've got my sights set too low. But I tend to be an umambitious type. I'll happily trade a 30 or 40% salary cut from the "top end" for things like job stability, a decent number of weeks of vacation, the sick time that my disease requires every so often, and the health coverage that I need to survive. Short-term greed, mixed with a high degree of personal risk, is a luxury I can no longer afford. And most of those high-track private sector jobs require a good dose of both.

Still, I do wonder just how far the Canadian government would go when it comes to attracting brains. Would they accept a no-assets, newly minted PhD in a good area of research, despite their ludicrous immigration points system?

-- ArchTeryx

[Digit]

105. If we were told there were open borders, the numbers would be incredible

If ALL the restrictions were off, they would be overrun with immigrants from the US.
As for myself, I already had realized (from extensive reading), I was too old and my job skills were not needed.

So....looking for good looking Canadian man, with plenty of money to move me up to the great white north. I can cook. :-)

[LSU_Subversive]

108. we still want to, but my s.o. plans to do med school first and

loan funding is an issue.

don't foresee any problem once we're done though since he already has an m.a. and i'm finishing up my ph.d.

[ProudDad]

111. Too damn cold

That's why I wouldn't move there.

I might move to Venezuela though.

[conflictgirl]

112. We wanted to and seriously looked into it

The husband and I both qualified according to the points system. We applied for jobs too, but neither of us even got a single phone call from that. What was the final nail in the coffin for us was the money. Thanks to the Bush economy, there's no way we could afford the amount of money required if we didn't have a job waiting!

To emigrate, you really have to be wealthy or be a professional with certain in-demand skills. We had friends there and everything and knew where we wanted to go. Unfortunately many of our friends there - Canadian natives! - are having trouble finding jobs for themselves. There's not really such a surplus of job openings that they're just desperate for Americans to come take them.

[screembloodymurder]

114. I'm too old, and I hate paperwork, but couldn't someone sneak

across the border? How do you folks treat illegals? Is there an underground railroad for freedom seeking Dems? Maple, how many bedrooms do you have?

[La Femme]

115. Canada

Maybe it is because most of us don't meet the requirements! I calculated my points to enter as a skilled worker and was at 63. You need 67 to be accepted. The deciding factors appear to be whether you have a job lined up in Canada, have had a job in Canada in the past, or have a relative already living there. Meeting any of those requirements is what pushes you over 67 points needed.

By the way, the age requirement receiving the most points (as in being the best) goes up to 49. I say this because I thought someone earlier posted 45, but it is 49. That gives you a few more years to meet their requirements.

[Puglover]

123. Im 51 and my partner and I passed with

69.

[Solar]

117. No offense to Canadians

You have a wonderful country and all, but I ain't leaving the nation my forefathers worked so hard to build unless the shit really starts to hit the fan. I'll be damned if I let the neocons take my country away from me, patriotism isnt exclusive to the right.

[mr mister]

120. We should do like the fundies

All move to a state and then leave the United States and join Canada.

[RedSock]

121. I applied in early 2004

and I'm moving to Toronto at the end of the month.

My tax dollars will no longer kill innocent people in Iraq (and elsewhere).

***

We hate Bush, but the problems driving us away are much more structural than whichever party is currently in power. We were leaving no matter who won the election. So many horrible things about this country would have stayed the same if Kerry was in the White House.

[mr mister]

122. I think the key is...

...to create a critical mass of progressives and keep getting these thugs out of power and into prisons for their massive crimes against humanity. And I'm talking about stuff way more basic than the war against Islam.

[mntleo2]

128. I Want To Go

I would be a great cannuck (sp?), but I cannot afford to go without a job. It is the same there as it is here: Why should they hire an older IT lady when they have young, vital people? I want very much to be a Canadian! Just watching their news which is by far more intelligent than ours, their politics are better(most of the time anyway) and they have a peaceful existence, plus their people are not such idiots and actually their citizens are much more informed, they know more about our country than many Americans know about theirs, well they are a much more responsible country IMO. Since I cannot go, I am urging my three sons to consider going there....I hope they do before the draft starts....

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[Orsino]

135. Haven't left yet.

Been planning since long before the last election, having decided that whoever won, the gov't has gone to shit. We'd rather be elsewhere when the invitable collapse comes.

All we're really waiting for is the sale of our property.

[BooScout]

136. My Settlement Visa for Britain arrived yesterday.

We aren't going to Canada. We are heading to the UK. My husband is British and he has had enough. Who can blame him? We'll be moving within the next 6 weeks or so. Politics played a very large part in our decision. We are both disgusted...........not just with the Repukes but with the lack of a spine from the Democrats as well. This country is never going to be anything close to what it was unless Americans start to fight back against the Fundamentalist Christians that are attempting to ram their politics down all our throats.