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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:45 PM
Original message
Memo Shows U.S. Inmate Interrogation Plans in Iraq
Just a few bad apples, right? Well, it only takes one bad apple if it's at the top of the barrel...

The top U.S. commander in Iraq authorized prisoner interrogation tactics more harsh than accepted Army practice, including using guard dogs to exploit "Arab fear of dogs," a memo made public on Tuesday showed.

The Sept. 14, 2003, memo by Army Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, then the senior commander in Iraq, was released by the American Civil Liberties Union, which obtained it from the government under court order through the Freedom of Information Act.

"The memo clearly establishes that Gen. Sanchez authorized unlawful interrogation techniques for use in Iraq, and in particular these techniques violate the Geneva Conventions and the Army's own field manual governing interrogations," ACLU lawyer Amrit Singh said in an interview.


Rickie! You gots some 'splainin' to do!
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. "...military working dogs, or MWD"
That explains all the confusion.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. "arab fear of dogs"
wtf??? anybody is going to be scared of a snapping, snarling dog in their face!
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. "I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"
:puke:
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. BBC Link
From the BBC Online
Dated Wednesday March 30 04:24 GMT (Tuesday 8:24 pm PST)

US memo shows Iraq jail methods

The top US general in Iraq authorised interrogation techniques including the use of dogs, stress positions and disorientation, a memo has shown.

The document was obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union through the US Freedom of Information Act.

The September 2003 document is signed by the then commander of US forces in Iraq, Gen Ricardo Sanchez.

The ACLU says the measures go beyond generally accepted practice and says Gen Sanchez should be made accountable.

Read more.

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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-30-05 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. OMG! you mean Sanchez lied?
:think:
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. kick to combine
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. Army Memo Released By ACLU Suggests Perjury In Testimony on Torture
WASHINGTON - The American Civil Liberties Union today sent a letter to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales asking him to open an investigation into possible perjury by Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the theater commander at the outset of the Iraq War. The ACLU said that a memo sent by Lt. Gen Sanchez flatly contradicts sworn testimony given by him before the Senate Armed Services Committee, in which he denied authorizing highly coercive interrogation methods.

"Lt. Gen. Sanchez’s testimony, given under oath before the Senate Armed Services committee, is utterly inconsistent with the written record, and deserves serious investigation," said Anthony D. Romero, ACLU Executive Director. "This clear breach of the public’s trust is also further proof that the American people deserve the appointment of an independent special counsel by the attorney general."

Although the Washington Post first disclosed its existence, the memorandum at issue was initially withheld from public release by the Defense Department under national security grounds. The ACLU obtained a physical copy of the memorandum, however, under an ongoing Freedom of Information Act lawsuit, and released a hard copy on Tuesday.

The memorandum, dated September 14, 2003, was signed by Lt. Gen. Sanchez and laid out specific interrogation techniques, modeled on those used against detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, for use by coalition forces in Iraq. These include sleep "management," the inducement of fear at two levels of severity, loud music and sensory agitation, and the use of canine units to "exploit Arab fear of dogs."

During sworn testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee, Lt. Gen. Sanchez flatly denied approving any such techniques in Iraq, and said that a news article reporting otherwise was false.

more
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=17868&c=206
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. A PR release gets on line and on wire - but not one MSM
Edited on Thu Mar-31-05 11:55 AM by papau
leads with the story - A sad day for media.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. "the Peninsula" of Qatar and "Zaman online" of Turkey are all over it tho
http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&subsection=Americas&month=March2005&file=World_News200503317732.xml

http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&hn=18017

free press in action! woo! heh. actually, here's the list at news.google.com at the moment:


Sanchez Orchestrated Torture Tactics in Iraq
Zaman Online, Turkey - 8 hours ago
By Cihan News Agency. It was claimed that General Richardo Sanchez, a US military commander in Iraq, determined the interrogation ...

Iraq interrogation techniques exposed
Telegraph.co.uk, UK - Mar 30, 2005
Interrogators were sanctioned by their bosses to use dogs, stress positions and isolation in Iraqi prisons, a Government memo reveals. ...

Memo Reveals Iraq Interrogation Techniques
Scotsman, UK - Mar 30, 2005
By Victoria Ward, PA, in New York. The top US commander in Iraq authorised prisoner interrogation tactics including the use of dogs ...

US commander authorised interrogation
ITV.com, UK - Mar 30, 2005
The US army's highest commander in Iraq authorised prisoner interrogation methods that were more harsh than accepted practice, it has emerged. ...

General approved extreme interrogation methods
Guardian, UK - Mar 30, 2005
The highest-ranking US general in Iraq authorised the use of interrogation techniques that included sleep manipulation, stress positions and the use of dogs to ...

Top soldier in Iraq okayed illegal methods, ACLU says
Globe and Mail, Canada - Mar 30, 2005
Washington -- The former top US military chief in Iraq authorized the use of illegal techniques during interrogations, the American Civil Liberties Union said ...

ACLU: US commander in Iraq authorized abusive interrogation ...
Aljazeera.com, UK - Mar 30, 2005
The former US army chief in Iraq authorized tough techniques to intimidate detainees during interrogations, including using guard dogs and placing prisoners in ...

US MEMO OUTLINES JAIL METHODS
Special Broadcasting Service, Australia - Mar 29, 2005
A memo made public shows that the top US general in Iraq authorised prisoner interrogation tactics harsher than accepted practice, including using guard dogs ...

Memo shows US inmate interrogation plans in Iraq
New Zealand Herald, New Zealand - Mar 29, 2005
WASHINGTON - The top US commander in Iraq authorised prisoner interrogation tactics more harsh than accepted army practice, including using guard dogs to ...

US commander in Iraq approves harsh interrogating techniques: memo
Xinhua, China - Mar 29, 2005
WASHINGTON, March 29 (Xinhuanet) -- A senior US commander in Iraq had approved several harsh techniques for prisoner interrogation, including the use of ...

US Iraq interrogations planned high up
Swissinfo, Switzerland - Mar 29, 2005
By Will Dunham. accepted Army practice, including using guard dogs to exploit "Arab fear of dogs," according to a memo made public. ...

US memo shows Iraq jail methods
BBC News, UK - Mar 29, 2005
The top US general in Iraq authorised interrogation techniques including the use of dogs, stress positions and disorientation, a memo has shown. ...

Harsh Tactics Were Allowed, General Told Jailers in Iraq
New York Times - Mar 29, 2005
By REUTERS. WASHINGTON, March 29 (Reuters) - The top United States commander in Iraq authorized prisoner interrogation tactics that ...

Memo Shows US Inmate Interrogation Plans in Iraq
Reuters - Mar 29, 2005
By Will Dunham. WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The top US commander in Iraq authorized prisoner interrogation tactics more harsh than accepted ...

Memo shows US general approved interrogations
ABC Online, Australia - Mar 29, 2005
The former top US military chief in Iraq authorised the use of dogs and other illegal techniques during interrogations, according to the American Civil ...

New Torture Memo Implicates Top US General
Guerrilla News Network - 12 hours ago
Gen. Sanchez committed perjury when testifying before Congress. The memo, which the ACLU was able to make public only after filing ...

Sanchez approved interrogations violating Geneva charter: Aclu
Peninsula On-line, Qatar - 12 hours ago
WASHINGTON: A newly released memo shows the top US commander in Iraq authorised prisoner interrogation techniques that violated Geneva Conventions, the ...

New documents confirm widespread US abuse of Iraqi prisoners ...
World Socialist Web Site, MI - Mar 29, 2005
By Joseph Kay. A new series of documents released over the weekend provides fresh evidence of the pervasive US military abuse of prisoners in Iraq. ...

US general sanctioned Iraq excesses
uruknet.info, Italy - Mar 29, 2005
Wednesday 30 March 2005 - The former US military chief in Iraq authorised the use of dogs and other illegal techniques to intimidate prisoners during ...

5:09 pm: ACLU releases rumored memo by US general in Iraq that ...
Santa Fe New Mexican, NM - Mar 29, 2005
WASHINGTON (AP) - The American Civil Liberties Union released on Tuesday a Sept. 14, 2003, memo from Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, then ...

US general sanctioned Iraq excesses
Aljazeera.net, Qatar - Mar 29, 2005
The former US military chief in Iraq authorised the use of dogs and other illegal techniques to intimidate prisoners during interrogations, the American Civil ...

ACLU: Memo authorized violations
World Peace Herald, DC - Mar 29, 2005
By UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL. WASHINGTON -- A US general in Iraq authorized interrogation techniques that violated the Army's own ...

Interrogation Techniques Approved by Lieutenant General Sanchez ...
ACLU (press release), NY - Mar 29, 2005
NEW YORK -- A memo signed by Lieutenant General Ricardo A. Sanchez authorizing 29 interrogation techniques, including 12 which far exceeded limits established ...

US commander approved interrogation abuse, claims memo
Ireland Online, Ireland - Mar 30, 2005
The top US commander in Iraq authorised prisoner interrogation tactics including the use of dogs, stress positions and isolation, according to a memo. ...

Memo shows US inmate interrogation plans in Iraq
China Daily, China - Mar 29, 2005
The top US commander in Iraq authorized prisoner interrogation tactics more harsh than accepted Army practice, including using guard dogs to exploit "Arab fear ...

US commander in Iraq approves harsh interrogating techniques: memo
People's Daily Online, China - Mar 29, 2005
A senior US commander in Iraq had approved several harsh techniques for prisoner interrogation, including the use of muzzled dogs, a memo made public on ...

Memo Shows US Inmate Interrogation Plans in Iraq
ABC News - Mar 29, 2005
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The top US commander in Iraq authorized prisoner interrogation tactics more harsh than accepted Army practice, including using guard ...

Sanchez Orchestrated Torture Tactics in Iraq
Turks.US - 3 hours ago
It was claimed that General Richardo Sanchez, a US military commander in Iraq, determined the interrogation techniques applied on Iraqi prisoners by US soldiers ...

US Commander Approved Illegal Interrogations
Muslim American Society, VA - 21 hours ago
WASHINGTON , Mar 30 (MASNET & News Agencies) - A newly released memo shows the top US commander in Iraq authorized prisoner interrogation techniques that ...

General approved extreme interrogation methods
YubaNet, CA - 23 hours ago
A memo signed by Lieutenant General Ricardo A. Sanchez authorizing 29 interrogation techniques, including 12 which far exceeded limits established by the Army ...

US memo unveils Iraq jail techniques (10:30 PST)
Hi Pakistan, Pakistan - Mar 30, 2005
WASHINGTON: The top US general in Iraq authorized interrogation techniques including the use of dogs, stress positions and disorientation, a memo has shown. ...

Sanchez 'authorised illegal interrogation'
Today (Singapore), Singapore - Mar 29, 2005
WASHINGTON — The former US military chief in Iraq authorised the use of dogs and other widely condemned and illegal techniques to intimidate prisoners during ...

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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Great List - thanks!
:-(
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. That damn 'librul media' does it again
:eyes:
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
51. from Live Journal
The ACLU today released a memo signed by Lieutenant General Ricardo A. Sanchez authorizing 29 interrogation techniques, including 12 which far exceeded limits established by the Army’s own Field Manual. More specifically, it points out that Gen. Sanchez committed perjury when testifying before Congress.

From Sanchez' testimony of May 19, 2004:

U.S. SENATOR JACK REED (D-RI): General Sanchez, today's USA Today, sir, reported that you ordered or approved the use of sleep deprivation, intimidation by guard dogs, excessive noise and inducing fear as an interrogation method for a prisoner in Abu Ghraib prison. Is that correct?

SANCHEZ: Sir, that may be correct that it's in a news article, but I never approved any of those measures to be used within CJTF-7 at any time in the last year.

That is absolutely refuted by the newly released memo, which says:

Presence of Military Working Dog: Exploits Arab fear of dogs ...
Sleep Management: Detainee provided minimum of 4 hours sleep per 24 hour period, not to exceed 72 continuous hours.
Yelling, Loud Music, and Light Control: Used to create fear... (Sanchez's wording, not mine.)

Sanchez is clearly guilty of perjury, and should face the wrath of Congress... and the Senate should determine the guilt of his boss, Donald Rumsfeld, while they're at it.





http://www.livejournal.com/users/insomnia/547941.html
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bluedeminredstate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Sickening
Edited on Thu Mar-31-05 12:54 PM by bluedeminredstate
The media, which is supposed to inform the public, is spending its time following the hearse carrying Terri Schiavo's body to the morgue when it is released on the wires that one of the top military officials of the Iraq war LIED TO CONGRESS!!! About an explosive and shameful episode that showed the US military ignoring the Geneva Conventions. This wasn't some little matter. People are in jail because of this. Iraqis were killed in US custody with no explanation. This issue has affected the way we are perceived around the world, and we've been damaged beyond measure.
Now which story is more important to a free, fair and open society? Which story is more important to our democracy? This isn't difficult to figure out.
A working, fair and honest media would be covering the Sanchez story like the Pentagon was about to topple, and would be working the WH angle along with it. There should be reporters running around like their asses are on fire.
The lack of courage by our media is so dangerous. It's also very sad. I feel mostly numb to it now, but still find myself surprised at times when a huge story is invisible. This is a huge story.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. The American people don't want to hear about this
This kind of news leads to internal conflict. Conflict is bad for selling products.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. but it's not perjury about a blow job
it's only about torture and national security, so it doesn't count.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. Sanchez Torture Perjury) Harsh Tactics Were Allowed, General Told Jailers
Seems NYT and Reuters avoid the fact of perjury - despite the ACLU memo's request for referral to the Justice Department.

But the the NYT is the only major media even printing this much!

I love our "not GOP RW controlled media" - they just act like they are.


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/30/international/middleeast/30abuse.html

Harsh Tactics Were Allowed, General Told Jailers in Iraq
By REUTERS

ASHINGTON, March 29 (Reuters) - The top United States commander in Iraq authorized prisoner interrogation tactics that were harsher than accepted Army practice, including using guard dogs to exploit "Arab fear of dogs," a memo made public on Tuesday showed.

The memo, dated Sept. 14, 2003, and signed by Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, then the senior commander in Iraq, was released by the American Civil Liberties Union, which obtained it from the government under court order through the Freedom of Information Act.

The Abu Ghraib scandal, in which United States forces physically abused and sexually humiliated Iraqi prisoners at a jail on the outskirts of Baghdad, occurred under General Sanchez's command.

In the memo, General Sanchez laid out which interrogation techniques were permitted in Iraq, and said some required his prior approval. Some of the harshest techniques were disallowed the next month because of opposition from some military lawyers.<snip>

The memo also permitted isolation, "stress positions" (in which prisoners are placed in potentially painful positions to try to get them to talk) and "environmental manipulation," like making a room very hot or very cold, or using an "unpleasant smell," or disrupting normal sleep patterns.<snip>

"It is apparent that the government has been holding this document not out of any genuine concern that it will compromise national security, but to protect itself from embarrassment," said a lawyer for the group, Amrit Singh.


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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Sanchez = Sleazy War Criminal
Edited on Thu Mar-31-05 01:24 PM by saigon68
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. The top US general in Iraq authorised interrogation techniques
US memo shows Iraq jail methods

The ACLU said the measures had gone beyond the acceptable
The top US general in Iraq authorised interrogation techniques including the use of dogs, stress positions and disorientation, a memo has shown.
The document was obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union through the US Freedom of Information Act.

The September 2003 document is signed by the then commander of US forces in Iraq, Gen Ricardo Sanchez.

The ACLU says the measures go beyond generally accepted practice and says Gen Sanchez should be made accountable.

The memo authorised techniques including putting prisoners in stressful positions, using loud music and light control, and changing sleeping patterns.

It also authorised the presence of muzzled military working dogs to, as the memo puts it, "exploit Arab fear of dogs while maintaining security during interrogations".

The presence of dogs and other measures, all of which required approval by Gen Sanchez, were rescinded a month later because of opposition from military lawyers.

Gen Sanchez says advance permission was required every time one of these techniques was requested, adding that he never gave such permission.

more....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4392519.stm
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. "few bad apples" and all that..........
Liars!
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. And what about the two soldiers in the pictures that have been sentenced
to 20 yrs in Levenworth for following their general's orders?
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Why Is It...
that we have to look to the UK, and other locals in general, for timely, accurate news and information? It's fucking disgusting.

Jay
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Exactly! I live in Europe and am shocked everytime I come home
and watch the fluff they call news there!
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. I often wonder what Europeans or any foreigners think of our "news"
when they visit. They must think Fox, CNN and MSRNC are comedy channels. :(
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. LOL
My foreign friends don't even watch the news when they go. They can see right through it and choose to look to their local news sites on the internet.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. sadly we know the answer to that one Jay....
our media in the USA is bought and paid for by the BFEE and their cronies. We have no "news" in the US anywhere anymore. This big hunka news from the UK will never make it on our TVs.

I am stuck here visiting my parents in NY state and ALL THEY WATCH IS FAUX!!! :banghead:
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. because the poodle press is afraid of getting smacked with a rolled up
newspaper.

don't forget past victims:

Bill Maher
Dan Rather, and surrounding producers
(the guy who correctly stated the US army was targeting journalists --name escapes me at the moment)
speak out against this fascist regime at your own peril

there is a bona fide risk for opposing this administration, just as there was for opposing McCarthy. And frankly, the way the media has been run within the last two decades: where its INFOTAINMENT instead of news, you can't expect those neutered animals to grow new ones on the spot.

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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. It's not going to change any time soon, either.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. The highest-ranking person to be charged or convicted...
...in the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandals so far is a staff sergeant, in case you wondered.


http://www.suntimes.com/output/quicktakes/cst-nws-qt29.html

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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. I bet Sanchez gets a promotion
instead of the courtmartial that he truly deserves.
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Or a medal!! eom
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
45. Or, as sad as it sounds, both.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. They've lost plausible deniability. Without that, it's only a matter of
Edited on Wed Mar-30-05 09:51 AM by leveymg
time until prosecution reaches everyone who left a document trail, from Sanchez to Atty. Gen. Gonzales. Command responsibility then extends to the very top, including Rummy, Cheney and Shrub.

Even if the Pentagon Papers contained this kind of direct evidence of clear, willful violation of law, no one was seriously talking about prosecuting the Commander In Chief and his cabinet members during the Vietnam War. That is, indeed, something new in American history.

It is not inconceivable this time that the authors of the various torture memos,and those who authorized policies pursuant to them, will be held accountable, eventually. If they aren't, this is the end of all pretense to the rule of law. That's something which is too valuable to sacrifice to save the incompetents that lead this one regime.

They aren't invulnerable.
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. I'm proud of the ACLU for suing Rummy in the first place...
The very fact that the admin. caved to the ACLU and gave them evidence of a paper trail to the higher ups is proof that the admin is not above the law.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. After 9/11, they were given so much rope, they just couldn't resist
the temptation.

You scapegoat the Agency and the DIA at your mortal peril.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
31. It may take a generation........
but they will fall.

They may be brought up on charges after the '06 elections, if we can muster the majorities needed to override the crooked tabulators and take back the House.

They may not be brought up until our country is in tatters and being called to account by the World Courts after we are brought to heel by International forces at the end of WW III.

They may not have to face the music until we are sundered by a ferocious civil war and "Truth and Reconciliation" courts have them finally stand naked with their lies about their feet.

But they WILL fall. Tyrants always do.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. The WWIII and civil war stuff won't be necessary.
The mere fact that BushCo is so bad for business is enough to bring them down. That they have demonstrated the weaknesses of US force projection is unforgivable. To blame the intelligence community for policy lapses, and then to botch that pretense, is the last straw.

We're going to see a tidal change in the way the MSM deals with previously spiked stories about a lot of things from sex crimes to terrorist financing. The intelligence agencies have files on all these guys, including the Bushes. Ultimately, self-preservation by Wall Street and the intelligence agencies will dictate that the dirty truths start to flow freely.

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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. I certainly hope you're right...
I just wish that I could see a bit more hint that the tide is turning.
Exactly what international money can counter Bechtel's heft? What else could pry the press out of BushCo.'s pocket?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. In 1998, Abdullah promised to sell the US-based oil multinationals
the "upstream" Saudi oil that had been nationalized after the 1973 Arab-Israeli war. After the Iraq war, the Saudis were so pissed that they completely shut out the US-based firms from a $60 billion contract to develop the Kingdom's natural gas production. Those contracts instead went to Russian and Chinese energy companies. If that wasn't a clear shot across the bow, I don't know what could be.

The Saudis have comercial holdings here amounting to about 5% of US GNP,along with a controlling stake in Exxon-Mobil and some of the other big energy companies. The Chinese hold $160 billion in US Treasuries and have a corner on the real estate investment trusts. Either of them could wreak economic havoc just by selling off in American markets, if they wanted to.

By comparison,Bechtel and Carlyle Group - $10 - $15 billion companies - are small potatoes. The US does not own the world, in fact we don't even really control our own economy any more. While previous Republican adminsistrations were world class pirates and operators, particularly Reagan-Bush, they generaly respected the wishes of their primary investors and made loads of money for their backers. Not so, Bush Jr.. who has squandered every opportunity and blown all of his venture capital . I think they're going to give him the boot.
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leQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. i pray to God you're right (eom)
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #35
46. I would argue that Herr Busch has been great for business, especially.....
...the OWNERS of the businesses. With the huge tax cut for the wealthy, those people are making out like bandits even if the companies they own are laying off workers.

And then you add in all of the "opportunities" overseas to make a fortune in the occupied countries of the Middle East.

No, they're not suffering at all...and they love Georgie-Porgie.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. And blamed the folks who followed his orders.
And even blamed other generals who had been pushed out of that command line.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
36. Is this was Bill OReilly was blathering about last night?
While channel surfing, I heard him say "The ACLU--what's wrong with those guys?"

Whether you agree with memo or not, we've caught them in yet another lie.

:headbang:
rocknation
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dyermaker Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
38. Could someone please post this!!! I can't yet.......
Sorry for butting in this thread but I feel this needs attention.
Could someone please post this terrible news that must be heard?
This is an outrage!!! This must be stopped and never happen again!

http://www.thisislondon.com/news/articles/17571222?source=Evening%20Standard

Massive seal cull begins

By Paul Sims, Evening Standard
30 March 2005

Thousands of hunters armed with clubs, rifles and spears have begun the world's largest seal cull on the ice floes off eastern Canada.


Turning the ice red with blood, they killed hundreds of pups during the first day of the annual harp seal hunt.

The cull, which has been the target of protests since the 1960s, will mean the slaughter of up to 320,000 young seals on the floes and islands around Quebec's les de la Madeleine in the Gulf of St Lawrence.

"It's just horrific out there," said Rebecca Aldworth of the Humane Society of the United States. "There is blood all across the ice and seal carcasses as far as the eye can see. We've seen seals that were moving around and breathing, that have been left in these piles, some left conscious and crawling."

Animal rights campaigners, who claim the pups are often skinned alive, have begun a boycott of Canadian seafood products and are planning protests until the end of the cull on 15 May.

Despite an import ban imposed in the United States and the European Union, a growth in demand for seal pelts from eastern Europe and China led the Canadian government to issue a quota in 2003 that allows hunters to kill 975,000 seals over three years.

Canada says the seal population is "healthy and abundant" and three times the size it was in the Seventies.

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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Fear not, Dyermaker
Edited on Wed Mar-30-05 11:19 AM by rocknation
We've known about this since Monday. You can add a link to your story there as an update.

Welcome to DU--you sound like a good candidate for the DU environmental group!

:hi:
rocknation
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dyermaker Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Thanks rocknation!
Thanks rocknation! I didn't even know about that forum. I'm all over it! Thanks again!
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
43. pnutchuck
Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
copyrighted news source.



Thank you.


DU Moderator
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
44. Gen. Sanchez committed perjury when testifying before Congress
From Sanchez' testimony of May 19, 2004:

U.S. SENATOR JACK REED (D-RI): General Sanchez, today's USA Today, sir, reported that you ordered or approved the use of sleep deprivation, intimidation by guard dogs, excessive noise and inducing fear as an interrogation method for a prisoner in Abu Ghraib prison. Is that correct?

SANCHEZ: Sir, that may be correct that it's in a news article, but I never approved any of those measures to be used within CJTF-7 at any time in the last year.

That is absolutely refuted by the newly released memo, which says:

Presence of Military Working Dog: Exploits Arab fear of dogs ...
Sleep Management: Detainee provided minimum of 4 hours sleep per 24 hour period, not to exceed 72 continuous hours.
Yelling, Loud Music, and Light Control: Used to create fear... (Sanchez's wording, not mine.)

Sanchez is clearly guilty of perjury, and should face the wrath of Congress... and the Senate should determine the guilt of his boss, Donald Rumsfeld, while they're at it.

*UPDATE* This post is starting to get some attention on other sites, such as MetaFilter, Tom Tomorrow, Atrios, and DailyKos. This morning, I called the office of Senator Reed, at (202) 224-4642, to make them aware of this act of perjury, as well as calling my local senator. I encourage everyone who reads this to take a minute and do the same. We must get our politicians talking about the seriousness of Gen. Sanchez' actions. No senator likes being lied to. It makes them pissed off... and rightly so. Let's hope they'll do something about it.


http://www.livejournal.com/users/insomnia/547941.html
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. The memo was dated 09/14/03. Sanchez testified 03/19/2004.
He stated, "I never approved any of those measures to be used within CJTF-7 at any time in the last year." Sounds like the General got lawyered up before answering that one.

Well, it now appears he was off by six months. I wonder, then, how creative his lawyers will get with this. I guess they can argue in his defense that he actually approved the torture policy verbally before the invasion actually started, which would be more than a year earlier.

Can't wait to hear his explanations to the judge on this one.

Thank you, Cal04!


:applause:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
48. Some good news: Ret. Gen McCaffrey on CNN yesterday
said, this policy came straight out of Rumskull's office, and in particular, the general fingered Doug Feith. (Sorry for misspellings of names if any.)

I only caught a minute of it but it was arresting because this was the first time I'd ever heard anyone but us attribute guilt to anyone but a few low ranking servicepeople.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
49. This is significant.
Extremely so. I'm disappointed to see that it is the BBC, and not American news. I wonder if this will become "common knowledge" in the U.S.
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. It can only become common knowledge if we press the media
to make it so. We should all send our concerns for the lack of coverage in the US for this story.

http://edition.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form1.html?19
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. are you saying that this has not be on msm?? [i have not had chance
to listen much today]
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. I posted this as breaking news yesterday, and it had not hit US
media yet. It aired here in Europe, but CNN International hasn't made any mention of it yet and I've been watching it all day today. The main stories are about F*ing Schiavo worshipers and the Pope's declining health.
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
53. So, Gonzales will appoint someone to investigate his policies
When one of the people implementing his policies got busted purjuring himself.... Right. Interesting that the (bad)apples can go to jail. How about the tree?
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
55. kick to combine
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chlamor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
56. U.S. Soldiers Told to "Beat the F**k Out of" Detainees
Edited on Thu Mar-31-05 10:17 PM by chlamor
My Comment: Must say I'm pretty amazed at the frankness of the headline. But not surprised by the brutality.

RIGHTS:
U.S. Soldiers Told to ”Beat the F**k Out of” Detainees

William Fisher


NEW YORK, Mar 31 (IPS) - The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) is charging that U.S. Army documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act show that the mistreatment of detainees in Iraq was much more widespread than the government has admitted..

<snip>

The ACLU said the reason for the delay in delivering the more than 1,200 pages of documents was ”evident in the contents”, which include reports of brutal beatings, ”exercise until exhaustion” and sworn statements that soldiers were told to ”beat the f**k out of” detainees. One file cites evidence that military intelligence personnel in Iraq ”tortured” detainees held in their custody.

<snip>

Soldiers were told to ”beat the f**k out of detainees”: Army documents include sworn statements that soldiers were told in August 2003 to ”take the detainee(s) out back and beat the f**k out of them.” Perceptions of chain of command endorsement of retribution: A military intelligence team saw soldiers kicking blindfolded and ”zipcuffed” detainees several times in the sides while yelling profanities at them. The investigation concludes that at least three military personnel abused the detainees.

<snip>

In a separate development, the Centre for Constitutional Rights (CCR), which joined the ACLU in the FOIA case, said ”at least 26 prisoners who died in American custody in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2002 were likely the victims of criminal homicide.”

http://www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=28099
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OrangeCountyDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. Wow! I'm Shocked!
And our administration is trying to cover this up? No way! Not possible.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. Culture of life continued
to follow the theme.
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OrangeCountyDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. Colonel Jessup Would Be Proud
YOU WANT THE TRUTH? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
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OrangeCountyDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
60. How Can We Expect The media To Cover This?
Between the death of that Schiavo chick, her funeral, and the MJ trial, it would be unfair to force them to cover this. Besides, we're the good americans, and would never do something this corrupt.
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
61. Well, in Bush's view, it's not like these people are real christians.n/t
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
62. It Is Obvious That Bush And Rove Got Desperate In The Summer of 2003
With the supposed WMDs not readily found, the word went out "beat the shit out of these people" so we can find those damn weapons.
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
63. Oh boy....This is big news following the headline that
American hostages have been taken this week.

I'm afraid I'll have to hear my wing-nut friends carp about "the crazy Muslims" again.

I hope happens to the hostages (POWs?), but I can't hold higher expectations for Iraqis than I do for our pentagon.
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #63
72. oops...Too late to edit, I left an important word out of my post above
I hope <NOTHING> happens to the hostages (POWs?), but I can't hold higher expectations for Iraqis than I do for our pentagon.

Whew! That's better.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
64. Gosh I hope no one ever "liberates" us like this n/t
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
65. Freedom’s untidy...
and democracy is a messy thing.
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Zerex71 Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
66. Just remember, Support The Troops!
They are heroes to be looked up to and role models for our kids!
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. Pray for the Troops, Replace Bush
and bring our troops home. Bush has no right to use them for imperialism to better his wealthy friends.
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #66
69. Yeah...I just wonder what they'll be doing to our kids
when they return home.
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obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
68. Didn't happen
Nope. No way in hell. This did not occur. The US does not condone any mistreatment... Nope did NOT happen.

Riiight.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
70. "I tremble for my country when I reflect that G-d is just" -- T. Jefferson
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mediaman007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
71. This makes us look a little foolish when we tell other countries
about their human rights abuses.

We must be moving rapidly to the bottom of the list of World democracies. Hell, in our country you have to be screened to sit in the audience with our president and vice-president.


(By the way, on those presidential visits, I've been wondering how the Brown Shirts get information about people who attend. How can they match bumper stickers with the owners? If the Secret Service is not participating in this fraud, what type of access to private information do the Brown Shirts have?)
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chlamor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
73. Got Democracy?
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
74. Kick for background on Abu Ghraib attack nt
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-03-05 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
75. kick for war criminals
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