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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Celerity

(43,485 posts)
90. 'she played fast and loose with the truth'
Sat Jun 29, 2019, 03:45 PM
Jun 2019



The head fact checker at CNN, Daniel Dale's Twitter thread

here it is unwound

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1144461457624403974.html


Daniel Dale
@ddale8
7 hours ago, 6 tweets, 1 min read

Biden's claim tonight that he only opposed federally mandated busing and did not generally oppose "busing in America" was a flagrant misrepresentation of his position in the '70s and '80s. He'd made crystal clear he opposed busing as a concept, as a matter of principle.

Biden's remarks on busing in the 1970s were generally very unequivocal -- "I oppose busing. It's an asinine concept." "A bankrupt concept." "Busing does not work." He expressed pride for making anti-busing sentiment "respectable" among liberals.


As recently re-reported by WaPo, Biden said things like this about busing: “What it says is, ‘In order for your child with curly black hair, brown eyes, and dark skin to be able to learn anything, he needs to sit next to my blond-haired, blue-eyed son.’ That’s racist!"

It wasn't just words: working with avowed racists, Biden pushed legislation to make it difficult to run busing programs. There *was* a caveat: he said he would support busing in cases where it'd been proven that a community had been intentionally segregated. But otherwise no.

Biden's campaign says that his position on busing would not have stopped the particular local busing program that Kamala Harris was a part of, since it was voluntarily adopted by the local community. In general, though: she was not mischaracterizing his opposition to busing. Biden campaign’s argument is that him saying in the ‘70s that he opposed busing was understood then to mean he simply opposed federal-mandated busing, not all busing. Like when GOP said under Obama they oppose health reform, was obvious it meant Obamacare, not all health reform.




He played de jure (what the South had) vs. de facto (what the North had for the most part) semantic games (even tried it as a water-muddying explanation again in the debate 2 days ago!) as a way to ensure desegregation via the federal government was made much more difficult in the North (and thus Delaware, which mostly had de facto segregation).


Joe Biden called busing a ‘liberal train wreck.’ Now his stance on school integration is an issue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/joe-biden-called-busing-a-liberal-train-wreck-now-his-stance-on-school-integration-is-an-issue/2019/06/28/557705dc-99b3-11e9-830a-21b9b36b64ad_story.html?utm_term=.7e64c79ab655

snip

During the debate, Biden charged that Harris was mischaracterizing his record. Yet Biden’s opposition to court-ordered busing is one of the most well-documented views of his career. In his 2007 autobiography, “Promises to Keep,” he called busing “a liberal train wreck.”

While Biden ran and won election as a liberal, Delaware voters at the time also elected anti-busing Republicans. Many white parents in the suburbs of Wilmington, the state’s largest city, were not willing to send their children into the city, where the schools were dominated by black students.

During the heat of the battle, in the mid-1970s, Biden called busing “an asinine concept, the utility of which has never been proven to me. I’ve gotten to the point where I think our only recourse to eliminate busing may be a constitutional amendment.”

snip

The following year, Biden told NPR that liberal Democrats for too long had kept quiet about the matter because it would put them in the company of Alabama Gov. George Wallace (D), a leading segregationist.

Speaking to a Delaware weekly called the People Paper, Biden put it starkly: “The new integration plans being offered are really just quota systems to assure a certain number of blacks, Chicanos, or whatever in each school. That, to me, is the most racist concept you can come up with. What it says is, ‘In order for your child with curly black hair, brown eyes, and dark skin to be able to learn anything, he needs to sit next to my blond-haired, blue-eyed son.’ That’s racist!”

Biden, meanwhile, led a faction of Democrats to sponsor legislation that would restrict the ability of federal courts to institute busing orders, according to a 1978 account in the Wilmington Evening Journal. During this period, he worked to sponsor anti-busing legislation with Southern senators with segregationist backgrounds.

That upset Democrats who supported busing, and some of them took Biden aside and asked how and when “the racists had gotten to me,” as Biden told it in his autobiography. An aide to the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. told Biden he was being “duped.”


snip




Biden's track record on busing: In 1977, he called it a 'bankrupt policy'
(video)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/videos/what-joe-biden-said-about-school-busing-amendment-in-1977/vi-AADz8Hl


CNN Biden letters reveal he resisted this desegregation tactic




Senate Rejects Amendment to Restrict Judge's Authority on School Busing

(Biden was for it)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1978/08/24/senate-rejects-amendment-to-restrict-judges-authority-on-school-busing/6ba7d8ed-d746-46c5-8aa9-51e134ec89bc/?utm_term=.552468cca54f




here admits to making anti-bussing acceptable (if not respectable, then reasonable) for long-standing liberals to oppose bussing, even though at the time civil rights protections were under attack

https://books.google.se/books?id=ZFQE3bLDsS4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=Between+North+and+South:+Delaware,+Desegregation,+and+the+Myth+of+American&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjI3vygyYzjAhXyxcQBHYohDEIQ6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=Between%20North%20and%20South%3A%20Delaware%2C%20Desegregation%2C%20and%20the%20Myth%20of%20American&f=false




He supported a wide-reaching Jesse Helms anti-integration (not just bussing) amendment



How a Young Joe Biden Turned Liberals Against Integration

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/joe-biden-integration-school-busing-120968?o=1

snip

Sen. Jesse Helms, a Republican from North Carolina, was the first to strike. On September 17, 1975, when a larger education bill came up for debate, Helms offered a crippling anti-integration amendment. It would prevent the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare (HEW) from collecting any data about the race of students or teachers. In addition, HEW could not “require any school … to classify teachers or students by race.” Thus, HEW could not withhold funding from school districts that refused to integrate. “This is an antibusing amendment,” Helms explained. “This is an amendment to stop the current regiments of faceless, federal bureaucrats from destroying our schools.”

Biden rose to support Helms’s amendment. “I am sure it comes as a surprise to some of my colleagues … that a senator with a voting record such as mine stands up and supports [the Helms amendment].” Helms replied that he was happy to welcome Biden “to the ranks of the enlightened.” After the laughter died down, Biden launched an anti-busing screed. “I have become convinced that busing is a bankrupt concept.” The Senate should declare busing a failure, and focus instead on “whether or not we are really going to provide a better educational opportunity for blacks and minority groups in this country.” He praised Ed Brooke’s initiatives on housing, job opportunities and voting rights. In one breath, Biden seemed to reject busing in the North and the South, and claimed that he was committed to equal opportunity for African Americans.

A few other senators spoke briefly about the amendment, then Brooke sprung to action. The Helms amendment would eviscerate Title VI of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, Brooke said, which enabled HEW to cut off funding to school districts that refused to integrate. Brooke asserted that the federal government should attempt other integration remedies before resorting to busing. “But if compliance with the law cannot be achieved without busing, then busing must be one of the available desegregation remedies.” Brooke introduced a motion to table Helms’s amendment. Brooke’s motion passed, 48-43. Biden wouldn’t budge, and voted with Jesse Helms and the anti-bussers.

Brooke had fought this fight before, but he would face a more formidable adversary in Joe Biden. When a southern conservative like Helms led the anti-busing forces, Ed Brooke could still rally his troops. But it would be tougher to combat the anti-busing faction when its messenger was a young liberal from a border state.

Immediately after the Helms amendment was tabled, Biden proposed his own amendment to the $36 billion education bill, stipulating that none of those federal funds could be used by school systems “to assign teachers or students to schools … for reasons of race.” His amendment would prevent “some faceless bureaucrat” from “deciding that any child, black or white, should fit in some predetermined ratio.” He explained, “All the amendment says is that some bureaucrat sitting down there in HEW cannot tell a school district whether it is properly segregated or desegregated, or whether it should or should not have funds.” Finally, Biden called busing “an asinine policy.”

Brooke pointed out that the amendment would do much more than Biden claimed. Like the Helms gambit, it would still gut Title VI of the Civil Rights Act. But this time, a number of liberal senators that had opposed Helms’s amendment now supported Biden: Warren Magnuson and Scoop Jackson of Washington, where Seattle faced impending integration orders; and Thomas Eagleton and Stuart Symington of Missouri, where Kansas City confronted a similar fate. Mike Mansfield, the majority leader from Montana, also jumped on board. Watching his liberal colleagues defect, Republican Jacob Javits of New York mused, “They’re scared to death on busing.” The Senate approved Biden’s amendment. Biden had managed to turn a 48-43 loss for the anti-busing forces into a 50-43 victory.

In a seminal moment, the Senate thus turned against desegregation. The Senate had supported the 1964 Civil Rights Act, 1965 Voting Rights Act and 1968 Fair Housing Act. In the early 1970s, as President Richard Nixon and the House of Representatives encouraged the anti-busing movement, the Senate remained the last bastion for those who supported strong integration policies. Biden stormed that bastion, and it seemed to be falling. On September 23, another border-state Democrat moved against busing. Robert Byrd, the West Virginian who had since repudiated his Klan past, offered a perfecting amendment. It would prohibit busing beyond a student’s nearest school. It passed the Senate by a vote of 51-45.

snip
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
Why is it when a woman proves herself madaboutharry Jun 2019 #1
And why when she politely and respectfully challenges his record, she's "attacking" him? StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #3
Respectfully, wow!!!!!!! Butterflylady Jun 2019 #60
And what is wrong with preparation? mcar Jun 2019 #4
It's bad when you attack an opponents character which is what she did. Personal attacks will UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #5
Did she not specifically say "I do not believe you are racist"? shanny Jun 2019 #22
Oh that's right that disclaimer was made...you're not a racist ...BUT....uh huh. Sorry but I want UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #23
Sorry but this is the primary shanny Jun 2019 #58
True this is a primary and I wish it was just a regular old primary but our fucking county is at UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #111
And had she not prefaced her comment that way, people would be saying "She called him a racist!" StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #63
An example of damning with faint praise andym Jun 2019 #28
Nailed it. oasis Jun 2019 #65
Thank you. +1000 UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #112
Lip service. Like saying I like you but... LakeArenal Jun 2019 #34
i agree it was a personal attack and diminished her in my eyes.. samnsara Jun 2019 #51
She didn't make a judgement of his character. She left it to us to decide. Hoyt Jun 2019 #108
Just one of many purity tests that candidates will fail I suspect. YAWN. I see folks have really UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #110
Apparently, some folks are fine with his opposition to busing, and the deeper issue Hoyt Jun 2019 #114
Do you hear yourself? Now accusing him of opposing equal education for minorities. UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #115
I'm saying he worked with segregationists to oppose busing and the deeper issue. Hoyt Jun 2019 #116
+1 Voltaire2 Jun 2019 #46
I don't think saying "you hurt my feeings" (paraphrased) is politically effective. LongtimeAZDem Jun 2019 #78
Right. And how did Harris and her staff know Biden was going to make the segregationist... brush Jun 2019 #109
So are we to be satisfied that Biden did little preparation to combat such political attacks? Freethinker65 Jun 2019 #2
That's the thing. Corgigal Jun 2019 #6
When did one time Biden project ordainment? LakeArenal Jun 2019 #35
Say it? No. "Project" it? That's a subjective assessment, but I think he does project it. marylandblue Jun 2019 #50
Biden is doing the give no fucks approach Trump did. joshcryer Jun 2019 #97
Clinton lost handedly? Because she was competent, qualified, and prepared?? Freethinker65 Jun 2019 #117
Headline: Kamala Harris is a politician who respects her opponents enough stopbush Jun 2019 #7
Well said. theaocp Jun 2019 #8
Good point. Be prepared! Goodheart Jun 2019 #9
Wait until she goes after Sen. Warren customerserviceguy Jun 2019 #19
My guess is Warren won't make stupid remarks about segregationists Merlot Jun 2019 #29
My prediction is customerserviceguy Jun 2019 #38
Let her. My guess is that Warren is better prepared for this than she was before. marylandblue Jun 2019 #52
"no reservations" True Dough Jun 2019 #77
I hadn't thought of it that way customerserviceguy Jun 2019 #99
I also avoid "going off the reservation" or variations True Dough Jun 2019 #100
It's just repeating trite phrases customerserviceguy Jun 2019 #101
In the military, we called these people "blue falcons"... RHMerriman Jun 2019 #102
And railroad anyone that gets in her way. LakeArenal Jun 2019 #36
Good grief-- if Biden voters think THIS is bad and unfair-- dawg day Jun 2019 #104
It's not a mutually exclusive situation LakeArenal Jun 2019 #105
yup. He should be questioning his advisors floppyboo Jun 2019 #10
I thought Joe's response was fine LakeArenal Jun 2019 #37
I am mystified by the general perception Mme. Defarge Jun 2019 #54
'we know it' is not a very big group floppyboo Jun 2019 #55
Ok - the majority of the comments are not going so well for Harris... Skya Rhen Jun 2019 #11
So what? She came to the game prepared. Haven't selected a candidate yet, but I want one Fla Dem Jun 2019 #12
Why is it an issue, indeed. Merlot Jun 2019 #31
Why is it I feel she should not have used the busing to attack Biden katmondoo Jun 2019 #13
Your feelings are in line with the majority of Americans. There are 50 pundits and anchors Skya Rhen Jun 2019 #15
Thank you! Mme. Defarge Jun 2019 #57
The argument against using bussing it that it dredges ancient history. crazytown Jun 2019 #18
Well said. Merlot Jun 2019 #32
When she goes customerserviceguy Jun 2019 #20
Biden opened himself up to this a week or so ago when he brought up working with Dixiecrats. Hoyt Jun 2019 #14
I think Biden purposely choose that story. He's courting the southern vote. Merlot Jun 2019 #33
Seem reports today say it's working. LakeArenal Jun 2019 #39
Don't doubt it. We do need to win -- but don't feel good about doing it like that. Hoyt Jun 2019 #47
Well first of all if you mean the racist white southern voter Voltaire2 Jun 2019 #48
What southern vote? BeyondGeography Jun 2019 #49
Chicago Trib columnist Clarence Page had that thought too. Demit Jun 2019 #56
Or an apology from Dems for stepping out of line loyalsister Jun 2019 #61
Trump could and likely wood use it against Biden if he is the nominee 4139 Jun 2019 #16
The birtherism now being directed at Harris was DECADES in the making. (nt) Paladin Jun 2019 #17
This is plain bullshit Andy823 Jun 2019 #21
It only encourages more arguments and attacks against whom? Skya Rhen Jun 2019 #25
Good one! LakeArenal Jun 2019 #41
By the same author... ehrnst Jun 2019 #44
Thanks. robbedvoter Jun 2019 #67
I generally do a quick check of an author's previous works.... ehrnst Jun 2019 #86
Good. That means she makes strategic decisions. Merlot Jun 2019 #24
Perhaps Biden should have "planned" a response to an obvious potential attack... Wounded Bear Jun 2019 #26
Yup!! tulipsandroses Jun 2019 #30
And to all the people who say this has nothing to do with race and she is not attacking his UniteFightBack Jun 2019 #27
Another woman being dissed as "over prepared." ehrnst Jun 2019 #40
Most can see right through this kind of "preparedness". democratisphere Jun 2019 #45
Divider. Not a uniter. Not the kind of candidate that will accomplish the sole mission. democratisphere Jun 2019 #42
And there's NOTHING WRONG with that! no_hypocrisy Jun 2019 #43
Acceptable for a trial but treestar Jun 2019 #74
The polls will give us an indication of that True Dough Jun 2019 #81
Biden openly voted in favor of George Bush's bankruptcy bill mcmxv1 Jun 2019 #53
I remember this -- it's a fact. Auggie Jun 2019 #64
That's correct.. What, was it in 2005? eom sprinkleeninow Jun 2019 #88
And Sen Warren will take him to the woodshed over it tishaLA Jun 2019 #96
+1. This issue is of far more relevance to many Americans. dalton99a Jun 2019 #107
Wow! I'm impressed! Kaleva Jun 2019 #59
Don't care- if Joe can't take he should drop out nt Fiendish Thingy Jun 2019 #62
of course he can; that's not the point treestar Jun 2019 #79
In other words, she was...over-prepared robbedvoter Jun 2019 #66
Also Biden stoked the flames himself prior to the debate. Agschmid Jun 2019 #68
the role of prosecutors is to get convictions. truth and justice are irrelevant inconveniences nt msongs Jun 2019 #69
Yes, she needs to get out of prosecutorial stance treestar Jun 2019 #73
It's not going to help her much treestar Jun 2019 #70
Seriously. ucrdem Jun 2019 #72
I don't think so either. MSM is trying to make it a "thing" but I don't think this will get Harris emulatorloo Jun 2019 #75
How is this different than plotting an attack on Al Franken? ucrdem Jun 2019 #71
Al Franken wasn't standing on a debate stage True Dough Jun 2019 #82
There is no defense against "your words were hurtful," ucrdem Jun 2019 #84
Do you believe her words were earnest True Dough Jun 2019 #87
It doesn't take months to plot a truthful account. ucrdem Jun 2019 #89
'she played fast and loose with the truth' Celerity Jun 2019 #90
Wrong cut-n-paste. This conversation is about Harris, not Biden. nt ucrdem Jun 2019 #91
as is mine Celerity Jun 2019 #92
So she was doing a good job and came prepared. Pisces Jun 2019 #76
She prepared. Given the exchanges earlier in the month, he should have prepared better. 33taw Jun 2019 #80
means she is strategic AlexSFCA Jun 2019 #83
there's another candidate in the race, who has been around for while, with a statement on busing wyldwolf Jun 2019 #85
If Harris' attack was to get more POC Voters it doesn't Cha Jun 2019 #93
+1,000,000 ucrdem Jun 2019 #94
Yes it is, ucr! Cha Jun 2019 #95
I can support a candidate who plans things out and executes them perfectly IronLionZion Jun 2019 #98
I can't support a candidate who did what Harris did...played fast and loose with the truth and Demsrule86 Jun 2019 #103
She is a tough cookie, which is good. IluvPitties Jun 2019 #106
Oh yes.. Joe Biden has Cha Jun 2019 #113
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