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2016 Postmortem

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hill2016

(1,772 posts)
Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:38 PM Dec 2015

Examining Sanders' argument on student loans...and why he's wrong [View all]

Sanders is saying that housing and car loans have lower interest rates so we should lower the interest rates on student loans.

OK, he chose to make this argument and NOT "investing in students is good for society in the long-term as a mattter of public policy".

It's like saying "if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit!". Sure there may be good reasons to acquit and whether the glove fits isn't necessarily the best argument. However since you (Sanders) chose to focus on the glove, we shall examine your argument in light of your proposal (lowering student loans).

Firstly, interest rates on loans are set as a function of:
(1) term: the longer the loan the higher you want your interest rate to be
(2) risk free rate: since you could lend the government risk free, you always want a premium over the risk free rate if you are lending to a non-government entity
(3) likelihood of default: how likely is the borrower going to stop repaying the loan?
(4) recovery in default: what can you get back if the borrower defaults.
(5) credit score, taking into account your ability to pay


On #1, student loans can stretch out decades while car loans are only 5 - 7 years.

On #3, student loan defaults have been climbing very high.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2015/08/23/credit-dotcom-student-loan-crisis/32015421/
According to one calculated number, 23% of student loans that are not in deferment are seriously delinquent (> 90 days late). This is far far higher than the equivalent numbers for housing and car loans.

On #4, many people have pointed out that federal loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. That's true but if you owe $100,000 you will never repay the principal even if the federal government takes your Social Security income and income tax refunds. So often many of these loans will never be repaid. Also there are other government programs (IBR) that result in forgiveness of loan principal. On the other hand, if you default on a car or housing loan, the borrower can just seize the underlying collateral. You can't repossess a degree.

on 5, most of the time you are lending to somebody with no income and no assets and not even the certainty of completing the degree


Now given all these can somebody explain why the interest rate on a student loan should be the same as a car or housing loan, assuming no public policy intervention (which isn't Sanders argument here)?

36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Oh for FUCK's SAKE - stop defending the HORRIFIC practice this country has randys1 Dec 2015 #1
you are speaking from a matter of public policy hill2016 Dec 2015 #2
He is arguing that there shouldnt be any interest rates, let alone ones that are so high. randys1 Dec 2015 #3
That is but one argument of his education policyZ morningfog Dec 2015 #29
There is always a cost upaloopa Dec 2015 #7
Why can other countries do it? Are you going to say we cant to single payer too? randys1 Dec 2015 #8
That's why Bernie will never win upaloopa Dec 2015 #17
Other countries tax the shit out of everyone upaloopa Dec 2015 #24
there are also long term effects rurallib Dec 2015 #26
Don't think that's a hill I'd fight for. MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #4
Wow, we are defending the ability to price gouge students now. Krytan11c Dec 2015 #5
Third Way Democrats should grow a pair Matariki Dec 2015 #9
Well, DWS HAS backed Republicans..... CharlotteVale Dec 2015 #15
Nailed it. Scuba Dec 2015 #35
you really don't get it, but then again you did post this last month neverforget Dec 2015 #6
Lifetime of Hillary's student debt reduction - all of 2k. Vermin Supreme Dec 2015 #10
assuming no public policy intervention? Enrique Dec 2015 #11
Because hill2016 Dec 2015 #13
Home loans are collateralized upaloopa Dec 2015 #18
He's saying student loans are not affordable. Don't play stupid right winger. morningfog Dec 2015 #30
Not at all. LWolf Dec 2015 #12
Look at #4 hill2016 Dec 2015 #14
I'm not sure why you'd think that; LWolf Dec 2015 #21
I'm looking at this statement specifically hill2016 Dec 2015 #22
Yes, you're LWolf Dec 2015 #23
Because auto loans hill2016 Dec 2015 #28
Education IS collateral, national collateral, LWolf Dec 2015 #36
Ya know when two or more Hillarians come up with the same nits to elaborately pick... hedda_foil Dec 2015 #16
Post removed Post removed Dec 2015 #19
Oh, a paid troll accusation. How surprising. n/t MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #20
I do agree with you that anyone who is paid to post morningfog Dec 2015 #33
Loans for education should be 0% interest... ljm2002 Dec 2015 #25
What value does a college education have? Who is rewarded Thinkingabout Dec 2015 #27
The individual and society. Was that a serious question? morningfog Dec 2015 #31
I actually think it was Ned_Devine Dec 2015 #32
why are you still here? Doctor_J Dec 2015 #34
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