2016 Postmortem

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)

17. According to her own records, her stated opposition to NAFTA is a lie.

Thu Oct 8, 2015, 02:26 PM

Oct 2015

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillarys-nafta-lie/

What is the proper word for the claim by Hillary Clinton and the more factually disinclined supporters of her campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination - made in speeches, briefings and interviews (including one by this reporter with the candidate) - that she has always been a critic of the North American Free Trade Agreement?

Now that we know from the 11,000 pages of Clinton White House documents released this week that former First Lady was an ardent advocate for NAFTA; now that we know she held at least five meetings to strategize about how to win congressional approval of the deal; now that we know she was in the thick of the manuevering to block the efforts of labor, farm, environmental and human rights groups to get a better agreement. Now that we know all of this, how should we assess the claim that Hillary's heart has always beaten to a fair-trade rhythm?

Now that we know from official records of her time as First Lady that Clinton was the featured speaker at a closed-door session where 120 women opinion leaders were hectored to pressure their congressional representatives to approve NAFTA; now that we know from ABC News reporting on the session that "her remarks were totally pro-NAFTA" and that "there was no equivocation for her support for NAFTA at the time;" now that we have these details confirmed, what should we make of Clinton's campaign claim that she was never comfortable with the militant free-trade agenda that has cost the United States hundreds of thousands of union jobs, that has idled entire industries, that has saddled this country with record trade deficits, undermined the security of working families in the US and abroad, and has forced Mexican farmers off their land into an economic refugee status that ultimately forces them to cross the Rio Grande River in search of work?

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

227 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Memo To Progressives: Hillary Clinton Is Lying To You - Salon [View all] WillyT Oct 2015 OP

Ouch Armstead Oct 2015 #1

The truth hurts. Fawke Em Oct 2015 #106

Salon is lying about Hillary: Hillary made room for Obama's out of respect for Obama lewebley3 Oct 2015 #199

Some of us can tell when people are lying before they even say a word. nt Zorra Oct 2015 #2

Hillary's not trustworthy? Who knew? Scuba Oct 2015 #3

Most of us who are not Hillary fans passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #51

I've often thought about that also. Unknown Beatle Oct 2015 #88

Oh, they see it. They just don't give a shit. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #194

You have brought the coolaid from the GOP Benguzi committee! lewebley3 Oct 2015 #201

Hardly ... Scuba Oct 2015 #208

Just say no! to Sanders: Say yes to a real Dem Hillary! lewebley3 Oct 2015 #210

Pro-war, pro-Wall Street, pro-fracking, pro-Keystone XL, pro-H1B Visas, pro-TPP.That's a "real Dem"? Scuba Oct 2015 #212

Hillary pro Dem, not socialism lewebley3 Oct 2015 #223

Socialism!!!!!!!!!! Yikes!!!!!!! Scuba Oct 2015 #225

I know. Yikes is one good way to put it. n/t truedelphi Oct 2015 #227

Hillary is very trust worthy, her career has been very consistent lewebley3 Oct 2015 #204

Too funny. blackspade Oct 2015 #213

It is a total shameless move. No integrity azmom Oct 2015 #4

Of course she is. 99Forever Oct 2015 #5

As tulare tom put it so well, hifiguy Oct 2015 #48

+ a bazillion marym625 Oct 2015 #203

Her plan is to have Obama get it shoved down our throats and then oppose it all the way to the WH Vincardog Oct 2015 #58

Thread winner. hifiguy Oct 2015 #85

Spot on analysis Docreed2003 Oct 2015 #90

I'd like to know what Salon means by "progressives." SusanaMontana41 Oct 2015 #97

Not terribly surprising kenfrequed Oct 2015 #6

Oh, we know that. We know that. Rest assured, we know that. n/t djean111 Oct 2015 #7

Let's face it Matariki Oct 2015 #8

if tecelote Oct 2015 #11

I don't have to. Fawke Em Oct 2015 #13

the voting is over and the winners declared before we close up shop in my state roguevalley Oct 2015 #16

You must be out west somewhere. Fawke Em Oct 2015 #20

I hear you. I'm in Alaska. We're so unimportant that they don't have us on roguevalley Oct 2015 #77

And some people, particularly Texans, don't recognize Fawke Em Oct 2015 #109

isn't that great? We are 2.5 times bigger. :D:D:D roguevalley Oct 2015 #118

Heck. I thought you were even bigger than that! Fawke Em Oct 2015 #119

if it helps, from end to end, we stretch from New York to California in total length. :D:D:D roguevalley Oct 2015 #121

I love that Alaska is marym625 Oct 2015 #205

right there with you. I'm in Texas. Javaman Oct 2015 #25

Same here, except I live in a state that is always sky blue hifiguy Oct 2015 #49

You can only speak for yourself on that. I will be focusing on Congress sabrina 1 Oct 2015 #19

I wish I had that choice, too. Fawke Em Oct 2015 #23

Sounds exactly like my state MuseRider Oct 2015 #35

I'm in Tennessee. Fawke Em Oct 2015 #110

Ugh is right. MuseRider Oct 2015 #138

Debbie Does Dinner ;) marym625 Oct 2015 #206

Well, who else would you expect on 'Jackson Day?' blackspade Oct 2015 #214

I don't think in the part of PA where I love the Democratic party even has a bench Pakid Oct 2015 #196

speak for yourself, please restorefreedom Oct 2015 #38

I hope you are right. Matariki Oct 2015 #69

i truly believe... restorefreedom Oct 2015 #70

Sadly I've become cynical Matariki Oct 2015 #72

i am not uncynical restorefreedom Oct 2015 #75

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Oct 2015 #84

No, American don't want the truth, they want Tumps lies lewebley3 Oct 2015 #202

nope ish of the hammer Oct 2015 #87

IF IF she wins. pangaia Oct 2015 #103

Voting against her opponent and supporting her are two different things. Motown_Johnny Oct 2015 #154

I'm not voting Clinton. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #226

She twice voted against CAFTA BainsBane Oct 2015 #9

According to her own records, her stated opposition to NAFTA is a lie. Luminous Animal Oct 2015 #17

This is where I read of her opposition to it BainsBane Oct 2015 #41

Perhaps you should ask your co-Hillary supporter, journalist Steve Leser about Hillary's lies. Luminous Animal Oct 2015 #79

This should be posted in an OP of its own, along with someone ELSE'S takedowns of Hillary... cherokeeprogressive Oct 2015 #120

Another one who made a 180 about her. NealK Oct 2015 #127

One of my proudest moments was when I got banned from the Hillary group for pointing out some A Simple Game Oct 2015 #140

Wow, that's so weird. NealK Oct 2015 #143

No it makes sense, evolving seems to be their norm, at least for their leader. n/t A Simple Game Oct 2015 #148

I just got banned from the Hillary group too nyabingi Oct 2015 #198

As I noted above, she has a Nixon-like chameleonic ability hifiguy Oct 2015 #215

How about consulting the union workers in Mexico after Clinton worked to priviatize the DhhD Oct 2015 #95

To me, that's a Republican. Screwing latinos, workers, the poor. Deceiving the electorate. senz Oct 2015 #168

Screwing Latinos, workers and the poor: DhhD Oct 2015 #197

Wow, thank you! More proof she serves oligarchs, not people. senz Oct 2015 #220

"if you don't like a statement, it's a lie". No more truer words spoken. still_one Oct 2015 #102

First of all HRC has been all over the map on the TPP. rhett o rick Oct 2015 #18

Clearly you didn't read my post BainsBane Oct 2015 #55

A little curious on this one... hughee99 Oct 2015 #81

Regarding her calling the TPP "the gold standard", there are a number of sources available that rhett o rick Oct 2015 #117

So she was against it before being for it and now (supposedly) against it again. NealK Oct 2015 #135

Hillary was working on Obama behalf, a Dem president: She did her job! lewebley3 Oct 2015 #209

Wut? NealK Oct 2015 #222

Why would she speak out in favor of something she opposes? arcane1 Oct 2015 #30

Because as First Lady her role was to support her husband BainsBane Oct 2015 #34

So instead of simply saying nothing, she lied to the public about supporting it. arcane1 Oct 2015 #39

Another person who tosses around the word lie BainsBane Oct 2015 #43

You said she opposed it privately but supported it in public. arcane1 Oct 2015 #50

Yesterday she said she just learned about it. Duckfan Oct 2015 #66

As blatantly obvious as it was to us floriduck Oct 2015 #78

That's an interesting take coming from a self-proclaimed feminist. cui bono Oct 2015 #137

Unreal! NealK Oct 2015 #150

. Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #10

Yep... WillyT Oct 2015 #130

^^^this^^^ HooptieWagon Oct 2015 #207

Wow, that title is a real chain jerker. nt Snotcicles Oct 2015 #12

K & R AzDar Oct 2015 #14

if she expects anyone to believe her ibegurpard Oct 2015 #15

Did she give a specific reason for the change in stance? Bradical79 Oct 2015 #21

salon is just a rw rag that hates Hillary magical thyme Oct 2015 #22

We hate her and that's why she lies. Poor woman. 840high Oct 2015 #32

Bwahahaha... cui bono Oct 2015 #167

lol -- especially Joan Walsh senz Oct 2015 #169

In July, sunshine is likely in the Sahara. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #24

I agree, but Bernblu Oct 2015 #26

K&R eom Duval Oct 2015 #27

Hillary is a liar! Hillary is a liar! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz leftofcool Oct 2015 #28

Agree. These types of posts are sooo boring. YAWN!!! Laser102 Oct 2015 #33

What would I say if Hillary wins? clamshells Oct 2015 #46

Yep, 20 years of spew and hate and she is still ahead. leftofcool Oct 2015 #116

do you have any substantive info to counter with? restorefreedom Oct 2015 #36

Stever Leser, in 2008, concluded that Hillary lied about her stance on NAFTA Luminous Animal Oct 2015 #83

OMG!!! darkangel218 Oct 2015 #107

And now he worships her! NealK Oct 2015 #139

Yep. darkangel218 Oct 2015 #157

Wonder what happened to him? senz Oct 2015 #170

There are some AWESOME quotes in this article from the Fox Contributor... some of my favorites: cherokeeprogressive Oct 2015 #122

All these quotes are still relevant today. NealK Oct 2015 #142

From the reading up thread Steve Leser could answer those questions for you. n/t A Simple Game Oct 2015 #146

If he knows about this thread... he's avoiding it like the plague. cherokeeprogressive Oct 2015 #149

Here's a sample provided by BMUS: NealK Oct 2015 #153

HOLY CRAP!!! darkangel218 Oct 2015 #155

+1 840high Oct 2015 #173

What we're seeing... HooptieWagon Oct 2015 #211

That last cartoon is literally a moonshot home run. hifiguy Oct 2015 #216

Once a weathervane, always a weathervane. neverforget Oct 2015 #151

Some of us... Oldtimeralso Oct 2015 #189

Checkmate! nt Live and Learn Oct 2015 #185

Anyone with an ounce of brains knows 840high Oct 2015 #29

And it's going to be stuck to her through the primaries. Duckfan Oct 2015 #68

+1 darkangel218 Oct 2015 #105

LOL, so what else is new. CharlotteVale Oct 2015 #31

Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast Oct 2015 #37

that is gonna leave a mark restorefreedom Oct 2015 #40

In fairness, media is making a bigger deal of this than Hillary's words warranted. merrily Oct 2015 #42

Obviously. hifiguy Oct 2015 #44

Dear prospective voters Plucketeer Oct 2015 #45

We know it's a charade Jack Rabbit Oct 2015 #56

She did it for the debate next week. Now she can say on National TV... Tommymac Oct 2015 #159

DUers are stone cold ignorant about trade policy politics, the records and views of the official Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #47

I am voting for Hillary Rodham Clinton.... stonecutter357 Oct 2015 #52

Me too, stonecutter357, but these hate-filled katmille Oct 2015 #156

Why not post the truth about NAFTA when she did not llike the deal before it was passed? Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #53

Here is Hillary Clinton before and after on NAFTA. TM99 Oct 2015 #57

Thank you for posting about Hillary being a critic of NAFTA from the very beginning. Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #60

You obviously did NOT read the linked articles. TM99 Oct 2015 #63

The viciousness of this thread is disheartening redstateblues Oct 2015 #177

Poor Hillary Oilwellian Oct 2015 #54

"Poor" is not really a proper word to describe her. darkangel218 Oct 2015 #59

Why is it a memo to progressives? I don't think there are any in her camp. All the progressives and YabaDabaNoDinoNo Oct 2015 #61

It's not really lying, it's pragmatism. zeemike Oct 2015 #62

Let's just get rid of the idea that GD:P is a thing anymore. shenmue Oct 2015 #64

there is a reason why GDP became anti Hillary "smears" olddots Oct 2015 #94

Yeah... might as well go back to her group, or that other site, and let them know people are talking cherokeeprogressive Oct 2015 #123

We know. nt valerief Oct 2015 #65

There is NO denying her Flip-Flopping around. SoapBox Oct 2015 #67

I'm well aware. Jester Messiah Oct 2015 #71

. HooptieWagon Oct 2015 #73

Great find WillyT. Certainly has the ring of truth. 99th_Monkey Oct 2015 #74

Look at Luminous Animal's link!!! darkangel218 Oct 2015 #114

Hillary's "Liar Factor" 99th_Monkey Oct 2015 #124

That quote in darkangel's post is from Steve Leser in 2008 Luminous Animal Oct 2015 #125

Yes, I saw that. Thank you 99th_Monkey Oct 2015 #126

Thanks !!! - It Needed To Be Said... WillyT Oct 2015 #133

It' was completely predictable raindaddy Oct 2015 #76

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Oct 2015 #80

+1 darkangel218 Oct 2015 #113

She is all for it, but the wind is against it. mhatrw Oct 2015 #82

Also, the sky is blue. (nt) a2liberal Oct 2015 #86

The only that surprises me Ms. Toad Oct 2015 #89

Waiting for someone to claim Salon is a Right Wing rag. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #91

She totally hates TPP now... despite negotiating portions of it and promoting it for years... EEO Oct 2015 #92

lol Go Vols Oct 2015 #217

Listen Now. Lets just PLEASE give her a chance! Kokonoe Oct 2015 #93

Schrodinger's Candidate? arcane1 Oct 2015 #96

More like the Forrest Gump Candidate: Utopian Leftist Oct 2015 #112

Heisenberg's maybe. Motown_Johnny Oct 2015 #152

LOL indeed! n/t arcane1 Oct 2015 #162

Excellent. hifiguy Oct 2015 #218

I couldn't possibly vote Thespian2 Oct 2015 #98

K&R. She has been talking out of both sides of her mouth on a number of issues for years. JDPriestly Oct 2015 #99

Get Rid Of The Liar billhicks76 Oct 2015 #100

wow, another Hillary bashing article from salon. Salon media group, not worth the 13 cents a share still_one Oct 2015 #101

Oh no! Do you mean Wall Street isn't impressed with Salon? Heaven forfend! DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #104

The message sucks so attack the messenger. neverforget Oct 2015 #115

nope, they are a bunch of inept folks who are going bankrupt, and have been losing their good still_one Oct 2015 #128

Good thing you were around to get to what's important. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #129

yeah, an anti-hillary asshole who works for Salon, and get attention by calling her a liar. still_one Oct 2015 #132

168 recs suggests that most here disagree with you. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #134

185 Recs now. And there's this: NealK Oct 2015 #158

I think she brought that on herself. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #164

most posts slamming Hillary on DU get recs. When a DUer said President Obama was a "POS" still_one Oct 2015 #175

It is interesting criteria. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #176

Alert on me, if you believe that is what I was doing. You are doing Bernie real proud still_one Oct 2015 #178

Climb down from your cross, S_O. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #179

What does S_O mean. I don't know all the acronyms. Is it "Shout Out"? Not trying to be snark on still_one Oct 2015 #182

I was just shortening "still_one"--being a lazy typist. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #186

thanks. I appreciate it. We may not see eye to eye on some things, but still_one Oct 2015 #187

Have a good night, still_one. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #188

Clinton's 1993 NAFTA Meeting NealK Oct 2015 #147

Well Fuck You, Jack Mirkinson of Salon, I take her at her word. cheapdate Oct 2015 #108

Uh, how'd she learn something new about it? jeff47 Oct 2015 #136

I don't know...maybe she just Googled it cheapdate Oct 2015 #160

Which would only reveal what was known months ago jeff47 Oct 2015 #163

Sure, man. What is she not telling us? That's the Real question, eh? cheapdate Oct 2015 #165

This message was self-deleted by its author highprincipleswork Oct 2015 #111

MSNBC showed her saying: left-of-center2012 Oct 2015 #131

...+1 840high Oct 2015 #174

Alex Cockburn did this better and his shtick got stale while Bill was still in office. ucrdem Oct 2015 #141

Did he do it as good as the Fox Contributor did in 2008? cherokeeprogressive Oct 2015 #145

alert results irisblue Oct 2015 #190

alert stalkers suck MoveIt Oct 2015 #191

Almost 1 a.m. when it was alerted. cherokeeprogressive Oct 2015 #195

Let her flip flop. Paka Oct 2015 #144

It's obvious to me that most people here katmille Oct 2015 #161

k cherokeeprogressive Oct 2015 #166

Except Salon reported this. senz Oct 2015 #171

We have a Fox pundit on DU who is a big Clinton supporter these days.. Fumesucker Oct 2015 #193

Yes, you are the Trade Expert brentspeak Oct 2015 #200

NastyRiffraff is Right solar Max Oct 2015 #172

Memo to Salon; No shit, Sherlock Scootaloo Oct 2015 #180

Noncommittal: "I don't believe it's going to meet the high bar I have set." grahamhgreen Oct 2015 #181

Flip Then Maybe Flop colsohlibgal Oct 2015 #183

I wonder what else she'll change her mind about when Bernie's numbers continue to creep up? Lunabell Oct 2015 #184

I like it that she is hedging her bets here--it gives me hope that maybe we can-- eridani Oct 2015 #192

Yup kenfrequed Oct 2015 #219

Hillary has a fan club, they would support her if she took up Ted Cruz's positions on the issues. JRLeft Oct 2015 #221

In other words... MrMickeysMom Oct 2015 #224