2016 Postmortem

senz

(11,945 posts)

115. You think we live in a "capitalist state, that this nation was born of capitalism?"

Wed Oct 7, 2015, 07:17 PM

Oct 2015

You wrote:

Most importantly, I have zero sympathy for people that haven't figured out they live in a capitalist state, that this nation was born of capitalism and that its founding documents codify the accumulation of capital. This country has been structured around inequality since its inception, yet suddenly now it becomes a concern, only because those groups who happily benefited from exploitation of the many for more than two centuries are starting to feel a bit of what it is like to live in the US.

If you honestly believe that, then I don't think you know jack about this country, BainsBane. I suppose you call yourself a Democrat, but you are unaware that this country was not founded on economic principles; it was founded on political principles, those of democracy, not capitalism. This is not a "capitalist state."

It is a democratic republic. Do you even know what that is? This country was not built on crass materialism; it was built on the noble principle that "all men [sic] are created equal." It was not, as you claim, "structured around inequality since its inception." And that is your excuse for so callously dismissing inequality among American citizens?

Do you know what the word "democracy" means? "Demos" comes from Greek, meaning "common people." "Cracy" means "rule." Democracy means the people rule. It does not mean "capital" rules. This is rule of the people, not rule of money.

I'm amazed you don't understand these things. Maybe you went to high school after Civics was dropped from the curricula?

I've seen rightwingers on other fora claim that our Constitution codifies capitalism, and I was amazed that anyone could be so ignorant. As I had to tell those rightwingers, there is no mention of, or any allusion to, capitalism in our Constitution. I never expected to find ignorance like that on Democratic Underground.

If other Hillary followers think as you do, then I can begin to understand why so many of them on this forum seem strangely undemocratic at times.

You owe it to yourself to learn about our nation's founding principles. When you do, it will make you proud. (Or it should.)

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How do Hillary supporters deal with her hawkish views and her obvious ties to Wall Street??? [View all] reformist2 Oct 2015 OP

Personally I doubt she will take us into another ground war and while I don't agree with her on hrmjustin Oct 2015 #1

Life is like DU...... daleanime Oct 2015 #2

The Hillary you all describe is the Hillary upaloopa Oct 2015 #3

The last thing I would like to do is artislife Oct 2015 #12

Sanders says Hillary's no-fly zone idea would make things worse - Is he wrecking Hillary's campaign? reformist2 Oct 2015 #13

Sanders doesn't know shit about foreign policy upaloopa Oct 2015 #22

Whereas Hillary's vast knowledge brought us the Libyan fiasco. Comrade Grumpy Oct 2015 #27

You are correct him nor O'Malley know shit about approving arms sales to countries snooper2 Oct 2015 #58

Bringing up right wing proven bull shit slander really upaloopa Oct 2015 #98

LOL ForgoTheConsequence Oct 2015 #126

And apparently for a long while Hillary didn't "know shit" about TPP until just recently... cascadiance Oct 2015 #151

The same way you deal with Sanders hawkish views and his oblivious ties to corporations such Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #4

OK, so you claim both are equally corrupt - I guess that's one way of dealing with it. reformist2 Oct 2015 #15

equally is a goal move, a little leaven leaveneth the whole bunch... for the purity test Hillary is uponit7771 Oct 2015 #18

They stick their fingers in their ears and yell.... 99Forever Oct 2015 #5

They share them and/or wouldn't give a fuck even in a wet dream sleeping on a pillow made of Spanish TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #6

/\_/\_This right here_/\_/\ Scuba Oct 2015 #40

I think this is probably closest to the truth. Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #107

+ 1,000,000,000 - What You Said !!! WillyT Oct 2015 #127

Answers. DanTex Oct 2015 #7

I agree with this post OKNancy Oct 2015 #10

In 2007, she voted for pre-emptive war against Iran (Kyl-Lieberman) jfern Oct 2015 #16

Your 3.4% number was proven to be a lie already. bobbobbins01 Oct 2015 #36

LOL. It was most certainly not "proven a lie". The numbers are right there at opensecrets DanTex Oct 2015 #39

You are being dishonest and you know it. bobbobbins01 Oct 2015 #41

You are being dishonest. Read my post. Nothing fuzzy about it, straight arithmitic. DanTex Oct 2015 #42

3.4% is in no way factual. That number is imaginary. bobbobbins01 Oct 2015 #43

Do the math yourself. 3.4% the portion of Hillary's total contributions that came from DanTex Oct 2015 #44

I'm done with this stupidity...your numbers are inaccurate. bobbobbins01 Oct 2015 #129

Wow, lots of sound and fury. DanTex Oct 2015 #130

Let's just look at who her top contributors have been and how much they've given. Garrett78 Oct 2015 #132

The companies whose employees have donated the most to her campaign are, DanTex Oct 2015 #134

Wow are you in denial. Garrett78 Oct 2015 #135

I'd say the same about you. But in the end, we have different opinions. DanTex Oct 2015 #136

Contribution loopholes you can drive a truck through. Garrett78 Oct 2015 #138

Of course, all those "loopholes"... DanTex Oct 2015 #145

Nice evade tactic. Garrett78 Oct 2015 #158

Even your first sentence is wrong. bobbobbins01 Oct 2015 #143

LOL. I stand corrected. 3.4% of "receipts" then. Thank you. DanTex Oct 2015 #144

I did not guess at all...I only illustrated the fallacy in your statement bobbobbins01 Oct 2015 #153

Again, I did not claim that no donors with less than 200 were bank employees. DanTex Oct 2015 #155

Your defense of Clinton is one thing. Garrett78 Oct 2015 #159

This sums up my thoughts perfectly Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2015 #120

Lovin the last half of you final sentence... ion_theory Oct 2015 #8

That baffles me and has for a long while. hifiguy Oct 2015 #9

How do they? They don't. nt artislife Oct 2015 #11

They don't care. Maedhros Oct 2015 #14

If I had a rocket launcher, some sonofabitch would die. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #31

Great,thanks for this. nt wendylaroux Oct 2015 #90

By thinking Sanders gumper views and ties to the gun industry are not far removed... uponit7771 Oct 2015 #17

My purity test for Hillary amounts to "Is she a Democrat?" LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #52

On social issues maybe she was a moderate but not now, what on economic issues uponit7771 Oct 2015 #65

Opposition to meaningful financial reform like reinstating Glass-Steagall hifiguy Oct 2015 #67

That's not meaningful reform, that's a meme spouted by someone to make people feel good but uponit7771 Oct 2015 #78

You mean other than being a founding member of the Koch-funded DLC that has morphed into LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #73

SSH! You're not supposed to mention that. hifiguy Oct 2015 #112

Like this: Fawke Em Oct 2015 #19

We need to bring all the votes in where military action has been taken, like bombing Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #20

He was voting for Bill Clinton's policy in 1999 Armstead Oct 2015 #23

Sanders made the decision to vote for the bombing, this is not the only time, he is responsible Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #26

You handily ignord my question. Was Clinton a Warmonger too? Armstead Oct 2015 #32

Okay, yes both Clinton and Bernie are warmongers, happy, also there are more votes. Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #34

Yes, and it was a vote I think the vast majority here agree with LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #59

By the same token, if Sanders voted with the majority then Hillary also. Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #71

No one here is criticizing Clinton for supporting the war in Afhganistan LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #77

Again, you say Hillary had horrible judgment, Sanders had horrible judgment in not requiring Bush Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #95

Jesus Christ. You're blaming Bernie for the Iraq war now??? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #99

It will not harm you to be honest about Bernie's record. senz Oct 2015 #119

And where did Bush claim the order came from for the terrorists attacks on 9/11. Iraq. Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #123

Three days after 9/11, no one could claim to know for sure senz Oct 2015 #131

He was looking for something to invade Saddam before hie was elected, you must have heard "Saddam Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #133

True. The neocons were talking about invading Iraq before Bush was elected. senz Oct 2015 #137

We know what Bernie voted, naming Hillary as a war hawk and with votes Bernie has made he is a war Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #147

Bernie knew it was garbage & didn't vote for it. Hillary did. senz Oct 2015 #149

What the hell are you talkign about? LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #157

No clue ibegurpard Oct 2015 #21

A feature rather than a bug... Fumesucker Oct 2015 #24

Would you rather have a Republican? Capt. Obvious Oct 2015 #25

I think the reasoning that "it's Hillary or we lose" is wrong. reformist2 Oct 2015 #28

That's kinda sad. n/t Comrade Grumpy Oct 2015 #29

Yes. If captured young and tender enough they cook up quite well LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #61

My cousin fantasizes about meeting her one day, has posters in her hallway. MindfulOne Oct 2015 #30

Far better than running the risk of a permanent Scaliafied SCOTUS. oasis Oct 2015 #33

Clinton's supporters "deal" with it by seeing it as propaganda, much of which originates in the RNC. McCamy Taylor Oct 2015 #35

She led the push to bomb Libya, and has backtracked on reforming Wall Street. Facts. reformist2 Oct 2015 #37

There are none so blind... Fumesucker Oct 2015 #38

Oh so the RNC cares about Wall Street and warmongering. senz Oct 2015 #110

How do Sanders supporters deal with his hawkish views and his obvious ties to the MIC? BainsBane Oct 2015 #45

+1000 sheshe2 Oct 2015 #46

Well said! hrmjustin Oct 2015 #47

Excellent post Bobbie Jo Oct 2015 #70

I've noticed that happens a lot. nt BainsBane Oct 2015 #108

Well I just dealt with her post, Bobbie Jo. senz Oct 2015 #117

No you didn't Bobbie Jo Oct 2015 #122

That looks like tripe to me, patently false on the face of it. I responded to senz Oct 2015 #142

What a load. Bobbie Jo Oct 2015 #146

LOL, you're charming. senz Oct 2015 #148

Oh you have no idea, Bobbie Jo Oct 2015 #152

Oh I probably do. senz Oct 2015 #154

Don't care. nt Bobbie Jo Oct 2015 #156

You think we live in a "capitalist state, that this nation was born of capitalism?" senz Oct 2015 #115

You remember learning about the ideas that influenced the Founding Fathers, right? BainsBane Oct 2015 #121

I have some familiarity with enlightenment ideas. senz Oct 2015 #139

You may remember that we had slavery at the time of the nation's founding mythology Oct 2015 #125

Good post Gothmog Oct 2015 #124

+1 Starry Messenger Oct 2015 #128

Ignore it. mmonk Oct 2015 #48

Denial and excuses usually. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #49

I see almost no Hillary supporters interested in policy discussions LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #50

Because it makes no sense to debate with people upaloopa Oct 2015 #53

No, actually I see almost zero interest in policy discussions at all from Hillary supporters LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #55

No they don't upaloopa Oct 2015 #68

And yet Bernie Sanders supporters continue to try and debate with you... MoveIt Oct 2015 #105

Why discuss things with posters that are only trying to disrupt and see hrmjustin Oct 2015 #54

I guess then we are relegated to posting nothing but polls LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #57

Sander upporters regularly trash Hillary on a daily basis. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #62

Like when HC supporters call Bernie a racist, a shill for Israel and a pedophile protector? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #101

I will not deny that things were posted hereabout Sanders that shoukd not of but if we have hrmjustin Oct 2015 #104

Talking to Sanders supporters to me is like upaloopa Oct 2015 #69

It's a political discussion board. You're surpised when people LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #76

We know what Sanders' positions are upaloopa Oct 2015 #96

You're no doubt not looking hard enough, I'm leaning Hillary and would like to know since uponit7771 Oct 2015 #66

You want me to take seriously your desire to discuss policy when you start LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #72

Typical response, when policy discussion does come up there's usually a condescending cut n run uponit7771 Oct 2015 #82

Yep. The only argument I hear is that she's won already, so stop criticizing our nominee!! reformist2 Oct 2015 #118

Her supporters also have hawkish views and ties to wall street. WDIM Oct 2015 #51

They think it's all a right wing azmom Oct 2015 #56

funny, I have not seen one person DonCoquixote Oct 2015 #60

They do not care. JRLeft Oct 2015 #63

Look at the responses to this thread. Shows you what Sanders supporters think of hrmjustin Oct 2015 #64

Really? How about what hillarysupportes.com think of us, justin? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #74

Way to change the subject there. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #75

You asked: "So why bother engaging with people who just want to insult you?" beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #80

Glad we agree. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #81

Yes. The things said about Bernistas at that site are far worse than anything we post here. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #83

I don't know why you would even bother talkiing to people that post there. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #84

Because hypocrisy. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #85

Look your attemot to bait me into a hide is clear. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #86

I'm not baiting you, just posting proof of the hypocrisy. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #88

Wait a minute. Curmudgeoness Oct 2015 #89

We are not the only ones to have an offsite group. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #97

So that is your excuse for saying horrible things Curmudgeoness Oct 2015 #100

What horrible things did I personally say? hrmjustin Oct 2015 #102

Be careful about posting screenshots, they try to get those posts hidden. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #109

Don't worry. Curmudgeoness Oct 2015 #111

So basically you can't answer the question. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #114

That sight is not DU... uponit7771 Oct 2015 #87

There are plenty of insulting things said here, too Rob H. Oct 2015 #91

Yes there are, but they don't get away with the most vile stuff. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #92

It wouldn't have helped persuade any fence-sitters Rob H. Oct 2015 #93

If they're so proud of it why not get a bumpersticker that says that? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #94

Mostly seems that they wholly embrace them Scootaloo Oct 2015 #79

Willful ignore-ance Android3.14 Oct 2015 #103

They deal with it by adopting her hawkish views and falling in love with Wall Street. senz Oct 2015 #106

Oh, bravo, senz! hifiguy Oct 2015 #113

Thank you, hifiguy. senz Oct 2015 #116

We vote for her. n/t Kang Colby Oct 2015 #140

Unvarnished truth? You gave an opinion, but you mistake it for the truth mythology Oct 2015 #141

Anyone can lie with statistics. You can call your results 'facts', but they are still opinions. reformist2 Oct 2015 #150