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CobaltBlue

(1,122 posts)
127. Garrett78—The path for Donald Trump to win a 2016 Republican pickup of the presidency…
Sun May 29, 2016, 01:20 PM
May 2016

Last edited Sun May 29, 2016, 03:12 PM - Edit history (3)

Garrett78,

In 2012, losing Republican presidential nominee and challenger Mitt Romney lost in the U.S. Popular Vote by –3.86 percentage points—that is, 47.16 percent for Romney to the winning 51.02 percent for re-election for President Barack Obama.

I am not predicting yet; but, a 2016 Republican pickup of the presidency would start with carrying every state in Romney’s 2012 column—24 states and 206 electoral votes.

Republican pickups would come from bellwether states Florida (29 electoral votes), a margin of D+0.88; Ohio (18 electoral votes), D+2.98; Virginia (13 electoral votes), D+3.88; and Colorado (09), D+5.36.

The level of a national shift is what helps shape the map. The above-mentioned states is assuming a 4- or 5-point national shift, for Donald Trump to win a Republican pickup of the U.S. Popular Vote by up to R+1 (which would be: Trump, 50 percent; Hillary Clinton, 49 percent). Any more of a Republican national shift would bring in additional states. But the four I mentioned would be enough to win with at least 275 electoral votes.


ALSO FACTOR

• Iowa (06 electoral votes)—A 2012 margin of D+5.81. This state is voting like former bellwether neighbor Missouri. It, along with New Mexico, are the only two states which backed all popular-vote winners after the 1980s—including Al Gore (2000) and George W. Bush (2004). Within its bellwether status, Iowa tilts Democratic by +2. If a Democrat wins, Iowa will carry.

• Nevada (06 electoral votes)—A margin of D+6.94. The state is a bonafide bellwether, because it has carried for every presidential winner since 1912 with exception of Jimmy Carter not carrying it (when he unseated Gerald Ford) in 1976. Since 1992, Nevada has been carrying within +5 of the national result. But, the good thing for Democrats is that the state moved from a Republican to a Democratic tilt, with Barack Obama's first election in 2008, and that could mean a Democrat wins Nevada while a Republican wins the presidency. (That would be based on a low national margin for a winning Republican to a narrow margin for a losing Democrat to hold Nevada.)

• New Mexico (05 electoral votes)—A margin of D+10.15. Its bellwether days may be over. This was indicated to possibly be the case, over 2008 and 2012, with Missouri (which had voted for every presidential winner since 1904 while getting it wrong in 1956 and then being really off in 2008 and 2012). It also needs to be said that, since New Mexico entered the union and first voted in 1912, this state plus Nevada have carried the same in every presidential election except 2000. And that, of course, was attributed to the split outcomes of the Electoral College (George W. Bush, who carried Nevada) and U.S. Popular Vote (Al Gore, who carried New Mexico) winners. Typically, Nevada is about +3 points more Republican than New Mexico as the inverse is true that New Mexico is about +3 points more Democratic than Nevada. (Its demographics show that whites are severely lower in their numbers—their size of the vote—in New Mexico than in other states. So, a winning Republican getting to carry New Mexico will have to perform sufficiently well with non-whites, particularly Hispanics, in order to have a feasible shot at winning the state.)


FROM BLUE TO RED
I mentioned a combined 69 electoral votes with pickups from bellwether states Florida, Ohio, Virginia, and Colorado—added to the 2012 Republican column states for the 206 electoral votes won by Mitt Romney—would give Donald Trump a pickup of the presidency with at least 275 electoral votes. You can consider Iowa, Nevada, and New Mexico as the next tier. Any more would involve these.…

Since you wanted some mention of “blue” states, and some which I am about to list are "Blue Firewall" states, the estimated order would be…

• New Hampshire (04 electoral votes)—A margin of D+5.58. This state carried for George W. Bush in 2000 but flipped Democratic for losing challenger John Kerry in 2004. Other than that 2000 exception, New Hampshire favors the Democrats. (Prior to 2004, all winning Republicans carried the state of New Hampshire. But, given realigning and counter-realigning of the electoral map, we're in a period in which all winning Democrats will carry New Hampshire.) This state tends to tilt +2 for Democrats; but, it is prone to swing and carry for either party if the national margin is at least +2.

• Wisconsin (10 electoral votes)—A margin of D+6.94. George W. Bush came within a half-point of flipping Wisconsin in 2000 and 2004. But the state hasn't carried for a Republican since Ronald Reagan's 49-state re-election in 1984. The Democratic tilt for Wisconsin can vary. It was pretty even with Al Gore's popular-vote win in 2000. In 2004, it tilted by nearly +3. In 2008, it tilted between +6 and +7. In 2012, it was in between +3 and +4.

• Pennsylvania (20 electoral votes)—While Democrats would really love to win Texas, the same is true for Republicans with Pennsylvania. Its tilt varies. When Bush won the popular vote, in 2004, by R+2.46, Kerry carried this state by D+2.50. That was a Democratic tilt of nearly +5. But when Barack Obama won a Democratic pickup of the presidency, in 2008, the state spotted him an extra +3 points. (He won nationally by D+7.26 and Pennsylvania carried by D+10.32.) With re-election, in 2012, Pennsylvania gave Obama an extra 1.52 as he won the state by D+5.38. It needs to be noted that Pennsylvania has had a Democratic tilt in every presidential election since after the 1940s. This also means every Republican who carried Pennsylvania after the 1940s—Dwight Eisenhower (1952, 1956), Richard Nixon (re-election in 1972), Ronald Reagan (1980, 1984), and George Bush (1988)—won the state wit a percentage-points margin lower than their national numbers. What this means, ultimately, is that when Democrats win the presidency, the state of Pennsylvania definitely carries.

• Minnesota (10 electoral votes)—A margin of D+7.69. Minnesota hasn't carried for a Republican since Richard Nixon won 49 states with re-election in 1972. Come to think—since after Dwight Eisenhower won 39 and 41 (of a then-48 states) in 1952 and 1956, and carried Minnesota both times, the state has given Republicans carriage only once—and it was with a 1972 Nixon. Like with the state of Massachusetts, every winning Democratic ticket has carried the state of Minnesota since Franklin Roosevelt's first election back in 1932. What makes Minnesota persuadable is that its Democratic tilt is not overwhelming. It has hovered between +3 and +5 as a Democratic tilt since 2000. (That year, Al Gore won the U.S. Popular Vote by +0.52. He carried Minnesota by only D+2.41.) In 2004, it was +5 as a Democratic tilt. It 2008, it was +3. In 2012, it was +4.

• Michigan (16 electoral votes)—A margin of D+9.48. Michigan hasn't carried Republican since 1988, the last year on record that party also carried the likes of other double-digit, electoral-vote states Pennsylvania, Maryland, New Jersey, President Barack Obama's home state Illinois, and No. 1 most-populous California. When Bill Clinton flipped Michigan, in 1992, it still had its "swing state" reputation. In 1984 and 1988, Michigan's percentage-points margin was less than a full point from the national margins for Reagan and Bush. In 1992, its Democratic pickup became a tilt for the party by +2. But it trended Democratic after that, with typically +5 or +6. In 2008, it was extra generous—it was +9 as Obama won the popular vote by D+7.26 and Michigan by D+16.44. This is the last state on the last I would expect to flip from Democratic to Republican. But a strong enough shift, nationally, can do. I'd say that a Republican would have to win by R+6—that is, 52 to 46 percent in the U.S. Popular Vote—to have a feasible shot at winning over Michigan.


Every state on this list assumes a Republican shift in the U.S. Popular Vote—that is, from 2012 to 2016—of +8 to +10. (It's an estimate of potential that played out in party-flipping presidential years 2000 and 2008.) That is, with mentioning the potential if the numbers are just right for the 2016 Republicans. (This would give Donald Trump a potential of 36 states and 352 electoral votes.) But, of course, if Hillary Clinton wins the nomination and the general election—in what would be a Democratic hold of the presidency—none of the listed states would switch party support. In fact, if she has a national shift of up to +5, that would yield Barack Obama's 2012 re-election map and involve flipping between North Carolina (which carried in 2008 for Obama, R+2.04), Georgia (R+7.80), and Arizona (R+9.03). If she were to gain an additional +8 to +10 level of Democratic support—suggesting, at best, Hillary Clinton (56 percent) to Donald Trump (43 percent)—following would be Missouri (R+9.36), Indiana (which carried in 2008 for Obama, R+10.20), and Montana (R+13.64) to become ripe for flipping from Republican to Democratic. (This would give Hillary Clinton a potential of 34 states, plus District of Columbia, and 398 electoral votes.)
I think she starts with a considerable advantage but I think she could easily lose cali May 2016 #1
I suspect Clinton will win all 3 of those. Garrett78 May 2016 #2
You asked. cali May 2016 #4
I did, and I appreciate your response. Garrett78 May 2016 #6
Garrett78—No Republican can pull together a winning map without both Florida and Ohio CobaltBlue May 2016 #141
Agreed. I don't see Trump or any Republican reaching 270 w/out both of those states. Garrett78 May 2016 #148
Garrett78—Not likely CobaltBlue May 2016 #160
No, it's not likely that Clinton can win without either FL or OH. Garrett78 May 2016 #161
Garrett78—I think we agree CobaltBlue May 2016 #174
here is a way, not likely but is in the realm of possibilty AntiBank May 2016 #170
I do appreciate your replies in this thread. Garrett78 May 2016 #171
if Trump is going to win, he will take OH, I doubt he wins MI, and he absolutely needs AntiBank May 2016 #172
OH+CO+VA+NC alone would't be enough. Garrett78 May 2016 #175
agreed, if all the states you listed went that way Clinton wins 276-262, flip just WI TRump wins 272 AntiBank May 2016 #185
Make Florida blue and I pretty much agree. Garrett78 May 2016 #186
you and I are basically in agreement, NC and FL were my 2 hardest to give to Trump AntiBank May 2016 #188
Some other possibilities: Garrett78 May 2016 #190
If those go Blue we are looking at 1984 in reverse AntiBank May 2016 #192
I wouldn't bet on it due to Clinton being so polarizing but it's not out of the realm of possibility Garrett78 May 2016 #193
AntiBank—No. Think of states' estimated partisan identifications CobaltBlue May 2016 #184
yes, I agree, I was just posting basically the only theoretical way it could happen, I give it less AntiBank May 2016 #189
CNN had a map on this morning... In addition to FL, also VA and MI and CA, couldn't make out the JudyM May 2016 #3
Trump's going to win CA? Garrett78 May 2016 #5
This may be it. JudyM May 2016 #8
That piece is about where Trump thinks he can win. I'm not asking what Trump thinks. Garrett78 May 2016 #13
The folks who think Trump is going to win... Blanks May 2016 #183
Yeah, hypothetical general election match-up polls are historically worthless. Garrett78 May 2016 #187
I think Trump is going to lose red states... Blanks May 2016 #203
I think that's certainly more likely than Clinton losing blue states. Garrett78 May 2016 #206
Did you even read that- it is hilarious. Trump is full bettyellen May 2016 #137
+1 Garrett78 May 2016 #139
The left coast will MFM008 May 2016 #153
Oregon sacto95834 May 2016 #191
[ Never mind. ] CobaltBlue May 2016 #142
See posts #8, #13 and #137. Garrett78 May 2016 #143
Do you think Trump is going to win California? DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #7
No* sacto95834 May 2016 #195
Trump won't be winning California, that isn't even a remote possibility. braddy May 2016 #25
braddy—It would take a landslide in the U.S. Popular Vote CobaltBlue May 2016 #177
Under current demographic shifts, Texas will flip before California does. Garrett78 May 2016 #178
This message was self-deleted by its author CobaltBlue May 2016 #194
We have Pete Wilson to thank.... sacto95834 May 2016 #196
I could see her losing ibegurpard May 2016 #9
Thanks for your response. Garrett78 May 2016 #16
And VA. JudyM May 2016 #26
You could use the google nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #10
Google won't tell me why DU posters think what they think. Garrett78 May 2016 #14
I amgiving you an answer nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #17
But you aren't answering. It's not a gotcha question. It's very straightforward. Garrett78 May 2016 #19
I gave you an answer nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #27
I'm not asking about anyone's strategy. Garrett78 May 2016 #31
And I already told you that the dynamics this year nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #32
It may be hard, but it's not impossible. It's just a prediction, not a sworn affidavit. Garrett78 May 2016 #39
My prediction was that he woudl be the nominee and could get the full enchilada nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #41
"Not very conventional routes" implies this is more complicated than it really is. Garrett78 May 2016 #43
Continue to think this is a normal year nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #44
When someone dodges a simple, straightforward question skepticscott May 2016 #76
Yep. But some managed to answer my question, so that's good. Garrett78 May 2016 #123
Or some of us are tired of warning nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #166
Warn all you want skepticscott May 2016 #180
Mic drop. Garrett78 May 2016 #181
After more than a few conversations nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #182
If you don't like what people are posting in this link why don't you put up a poll. That will limit JudyM May 2016 #29
The question isn't really suited for a poll. Garrett78 May 2016 #34
Ohio, Florida. and maybe New Jersey and Michigan yeoman6987 May 2016 #47
Honestly MFM008 May 2016 #155
Many keep dismissing Trump, yet he keeps winning. Trump, is not a politician, he's RKP5637 May 2016 #58
I am going to use the word I have used in the past nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #63
Trump is a monster of the Republican Party's making. Garrett78 May 2016 #66
Well, but winning against who? skepticscott May 2016 #77
Agree. The game changes after those 16 saltpoint May 2016 #82
Kasich, was IMO the most sane one of the group from outward appearances. n/t RKP5637 May 2016 #87
Trump's wins have been in the Republican saltpoint May 2016 #81
Definitely!!! My hunch is he will look/act/sound like an absolute fool in the GE, a fish out of RKP5637 May 2016 #90
I'm on board with that, RKP5637, and I'm saltpoint May 2016 #91
Also, he's used to generally holding/pulling all the strings and having those at his beckon RKP5637 May 2016 #93
Bam. You are nailing the lad at all extremities. saltpoint May 2016 #94
Thanks for the link! n/t RKP5637 May 2016 #95
That shouldn't be an article MFM008 May 2016 #156
Yep, Trump's success says more about the state of the Republican Party than anything else. Garrett78 May 2016 #100
Agree, Garrett. And what it's saltpoint May 2016 #116
Well, the people in this country were dumb enough to put in ... ebayfool May 2016 #11
Demographics are much different today. Garrett78 May 2016 #15
Of which states - I have not a clue! My response is based on people in general. ebayfool May 2016 #42
That Trump has any support at all is certainly disheartening, if not surprising. Garrett78 May 2016 #45
ebayfool—Lots of people aren't familiar with the map (and they don't need to be). But… CobaltBlue May 2016 #150
You sure did! I enjoyed the read, as well! ebayfool May 2016 #173
ebayfool—Thank you for mentioning your county. (I'll tell you mine—and I have more to say….) CobaltBlue May 2016 #199
With today's demographics Bush Pere and George W Bush loses. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #21
Yeah, I think some underestimate how favorable the electoral map is for Dems these days. Garrett78 May 2016 #54
I don't want to get cocky but it looks like Trump will need > 65% of the white vote to win. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #62
Romney got 59% of the white vote and still won just 206 electoral college votes. Garrett78 May 2016 #70
Hillary has a huge problem with male voters who see her as corrupt. EL34x4 May 2016 #78
The magic number is > 65% of the white vote. Everything else is commentary. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #83
If the same voter who voted GOP in 2014 EL34x4 May 2016 #84
You can't compare mid term participation with presidential election participation because DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #85
Not to mention the mid-terms don't involve national candidates. Garrett78 May 2016 #106
Presidential election electorates are much larger and heterogeneous than mid term electorates. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #110
Good questions PowerToThePeople May 2016 #12
The Republicans thank you for your (non)vote. Chemisse May 2016 #60
Oh, I will not be a non vote. PowerToThePeople May 2016 #96
Ahh. No matter. The result is the same. Chemisse May 2016 #99
Trump might win California. Schwarzenegger did. Dems to Win May 2016 #18
A Californian won a race for governor via a recall election. Garrett78 May 2016 #22
Schwarzenegger courted Hispanics here. He didn't call them rapists , murderers , and drug dealers. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #23
Indiana. n/t Contrary1 May 2016 #20
Anywhere else? Garrett78 May 2016 #24
Indiana DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #30
Yeah, as I wrote above, Indiana wouldn't cut it. Garrett78 May 2016 #36
Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, probably Missouri, Virginia as well. yourout May 2016 #28
Well, that would certainly do the trick, assuming the red states stay red. Garrett78 May 2016 #37
I would add DVRacer May 2016 #119
Quite a brain teaser I suspect. nt BootinUp May 2016 #33
To their credit, quite a few have, in fact, put forth answers. Garrett78 May 2016 #49
But none that has dared to answer skepticscott May 2016 #80
No, but evidence isn't a big priority on DU. Garrett78 May 2016 #121
To think this contest is in the bag pmorlan1 May 2016 #35
Okay, but do you have an answer to my question? Garrett78 May 2016 #38
Nope pmorlan1 May 2016 #40
Wisconsin, Michigan, Virginia, PA, Ohio, Florida, New Hampshire, etc... davidn3600 May 2016 #46
Wowzer. Garrett78 May 2016 #48
OK you think trump gets a 50 MFM008 May 2016 #157
That was my thought, but at least he put forth an honest answer. Garrett78 May 2016 #159
The argument is Romney + FL, PA, and MI (nt) Recursion May 2016 #50
Those are popular answers in this thread. Garrett78 May 2016 #52
I agree it's a longshot but he's unpredictable (nt) Recursion May 2016 #53
I'm in the Trump Will Lose camp. saltpoint May 2016 #51
Yeah, he actually makes Dubya seem articulate and nuanced. Garrett78 May 2016 #55
True. I thought Dubya was the pure dregs until saltpoint May 2016 #57
Imagine meeting up with an arrogant braggart like him at a party. Chemisse May 2016 #61
LOL. Yep. I'd be looking around saltpoint May 2016 #64
Outside of the DU bubble, there was a pretty broad consensus... 99Forever May 2016 #56
Which blue states and which swing states do you think he'll win? Garrett78 May 2016 #65
Doesn't matter. 99Forever May 2016 #67
Different people are pissed off for different reasons. And have been or years. Garrett78 May 2016 #69
Been hearing that since Trump announced. 99Forever May 2016 #71
Again, him winning the nomination says a lot about the Republican Party. Garrett78 May 2016 #72
Actually it does. 99Forever May 2016 #73
How does him winning the Clown Car Battle speak to his chances in November? Garrett78 May 2016 #101
Trump isn't facing a very likely indictment(s) at end of several ongoing FBI investigations. 99Forever May 2016 #105
But how he does among non-white males is key to this whole discussion. Garrett78 May 2016 #107
No, actually it isn't. 99Forever May 2016 #112
Yet you can't say which blue/swing states you think Trump will win. Garrett78 May 2016 #117
We already went down that road. 99Forever May 2016 #122
I didn't say it was your job. But it was the point of this thread. Garrett78 May 2016 #129
He (and Bernie) forthemiddle May 2016 #89
Independents and Trump's claim that he's bringing new voters into the fold. Garrett78 May 2016 #104
Whether he wins or loses depends mostly on whether DJ13 May 2016 #59
19 states (plus DC) have been won by the Dem candidate in 6 straight presidential elections. Garrett78 May 2016 #68
Garrett78—Make that 18 (not 19) states. CobaltBlue May 2016 #146
It seems WaPo had it wrong. Garrett78 May 2016 #149
Garrett78—It was in his phrasing. CobaltBlue May 2016 #154
Yeah it obviously should have said 18 (plus DC). Oh well. Garrett78 May 2016 #158
I think there is a very good chance he'll win in my state, New Hampshire. Vinca May 2016 #74
Which other blue states and which swing states do you think he'll win? Garrett78 May 2016 #108
I think he has a chance for Ohio and Florida. Vinca May 2016 #133
Florida and Ohio are crucial. Garrett78 May 2016 #136
Quite honestly, I think our only hope is the Libertarians splitting the vote on the right. Vinca May 2016 #144
I don't see any 3rd party candidate impacting the result in any of the states. Garrett78 May 2016 #152
I think the Libertarians will attract mainstream Republicans. Vinca May 2016 #162
If so, that's all the more reason to believe Clinton will win. Garrett78 May 2016 #164
You left out one inconvenient truth, the GOP is more united. B Calm May 2016 #75
More united than when? The GOP establishment is up in arms over Trump being the nominee. Garrett78 May 2016 #109
It will be on Democrats to make sure Trump is never president, as Michael Moore Thinkingabout May 2016 #79
It's Clinton's map to lose bigwillq May 2016 #86
They assume everyone hates Hillary as much as they do nt geek tragedy May 2016 #88
In late April of this year -- saltpoint May 2016 #92
So, which blue states and which swing states do you think he'll win? Garrett78 May 2016 #111
My emphasis was Hillary's weakness related saltpoint May 2016 #114
That's pretty much how I see things going, as well. Garrett78 May 2016 #120
I agree with ^^^ MFM008 May 2016 #168
its easy to figure out imo restorefreedom May 2016 #97
Oh no, not this again. Garrett78 May 2016 #113
hillary can barely keep off bernie except in the south restorefreedom May 2016 #126
Your perception is not reality. Garrett78 May 2016 #134
i believe that states are in play that would not be normally restorefreedom May 2016 #198
I'm sure you like your personal reality just fine. Garrett78 May 2016 #202
I'm not exactly sure who will win, but given the current mood of Exilednight May 2016 #98
What?!? The Obama Coalition is the reason she's well on her way to being nominated. Garrett78 May 2016 #115
the Obama coalition isn't even turning out to the polls. exit polling Exilednight May 2016 #145
Do you have a link? Garrett78 May 2016 #151
what makes you think she's doing well? she's 4 million votes behind where she was in 2008. Exilednight May 2016 #200
So, that's a no, you don't have a link to back up your claim. Didn't think so. Garrett78 May 2016 #201
Here's over 40 links. All you need to do is look at exit polling for every state and look for the Exilednight May 2016 #204
That's such an epic logic fail that I don't even know how to respond. Garrett78 May 2016 #205
I doubt he will win-he will take red states larkrake May 2016 #102
I simply think taking victory for granted is a bad idea Scootaloo May 2016 #103
I agree, but that isn't the question. Garrett78 May 2016 #118
"Many"? Like who? Scootaloo May 2016 #124
You can hardly walk hrough GDP without tripping over a poster who says Trump will beat Clinton. Garrett78 May 2016 #132
I believe he will win NC ms liberty May 2016 #125
But NC wouldn't be enough for Trump to reach 270. Garrett78 May 2016 #130
if he can't win NC ms liberty May 2016 #138
NC being a swing state is a recent development. Garrett78 May 2016 #140
ms liberty—That is correct. CobaltBlue May 2016 #147
Totally agree marions ghost May 2016 #131
Garrett78—The path for Donald Trump to win a 2016 Republican pickup of the presidency… CobaltBlue May 2016 #127
I'm afraid of Pa., Oh. & Mi. IF all the very angry ex-steel workers BELIEVE napi21 May 2016 #128
She's going to easily win, and I think Bernie and Busters really know this gollygee May 2016 #135
here is a scenario map AntiBank May 2016 #163
Those maps show the best case scenario for Trump. There won't be a Trump landslide. Garrett78 May 2016 #167
here is the best case for Trump (within reason) AntiBank May 2016 #176
It's up to the media Buzz cook May 2016 #165
Gerrymandering and favorable demographics allow the GOP to win congressional seats. Garrett78 May 2016 #169
Denigrating our nominee is the last resort... beachbumbob May 2016 #179
Scenario Maps of up to +10 national shifts: Trump and Hillary CobaltBlue May 2016 #197
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