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2016 Postmortem

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madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
Sat Jan 16, 2016, 10:12 PM Jan 2016

The Clinton argument "stripped to its essence".....by a fairly neutral observer. [View all]

From the Las Vegas Review Journal:

Calling a foul in Clinton-Sanders primary fight

Stripped to its essence, the Clinton argument is akin to Sanders coming across a person driving a broken down Vespa scooter. "Here, let me get you into a reliable car," Sanders offers. But the Clintons counter: "Look! He's trying to take away your scooter!"

It's technically accurate, but practically false. And that's an awful campaign slogan.


Not only that, Clinton knows better. She was attacked in 2008 in fliers distributed by the campaign of then-Sen. Barack Obama on the issue of universal health care, prompting her infamous news conference scold, "Shame on you, Barack Obama!"

But before saying that, Clinton asked a compelling question: What purpose does it serve for Democrats — who all believe in the concept of universal health care — to criticize one another over the precise details of how that idea is achieved? Or, to quote Past Clinton, "Since when do Democrats attack one another on universal health care? I thought we were trying to realize Harry Truman's dream."

Well, apparently since polls in Iowa and New Hampshire show Sanders treading close behind — and in some cases, ahead of — Clinton.


I don't think there was any real awareness among the party leaders, including the Clintons, of the shifting of power from the party establishment to the activists.

I would not feel so strongly about this except for the fact that the Democratic Party allowed a think tank to take over and run those out who were the traditional members of the party. It was done deliberately and for financial purposes.

This article was written about a year after the Dean campaign brought the rise of the "netroots", and there was a way that the people of the party could actually make their voices heard.

From an article by Matt Bai in October 2005 edition of the New York Times

Some were recognizing back then what the next battle would be.

What Dean's candidacy brought into the open, however, was another kind of growing and powerful tension in Democratic politics that had little to do with ideology. Activists often describe this divide as being between "insiders" and "outsiders," but the best description I've heard came from Simon Rosenberg, a Democratic operative who runs the advocacy group N.D.N. (formerly New Democrat Network), which sprang from Clintonian centrism of the early 1990's. As Rosenberg explained it, the party is currently riven between its "governing class" and its "activist class." The former includes the establishment types who populate Washington -- politicians, interest groups, consultants and policy makers. The second comprises "Net roots" Democrats on the local level; that is, grass-roots Democrats, many of whom were inspired by Dean and who connect to politics primarily online, through blogs or Web-based activist groups like MoveOn.org. The argument between the camps isn't about policy so much as about tactics, and a lot of Democrats in Washington don't even seem to know it's happening.


It's about policy now for sure.

Bai points out that it was not really clear that the Clintons were understanding this.

Assuming that Clinton is serious about a 2008 campaign, it's never too early to begin redefining her image in the minds of independent and conservative voters. And the thinking among her closest advisers holds that unlike other prospective candidates with conservative leanings, like Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana or Gov. Mark Warner of Virginia, Clinton doesn't have to worry about winning over more liberal base voters; she's an icon of the left, and short of climbing into a tank and invading a country all by herself, she couldn't do much to change that. By this theory, Clinton gets to have it both ways: her consistent centrist record will convince general-election voters that she is not the archetype they thought she was, and Democratic-primary voters will forgive her more conservative positions because, in their minds, she is saying such things only to make herself "electable." It's a strategy so elegant that even Karl Rove would have to smile in appreciation.

The only peril in this formulation is that it assumes, reasonably enough, that Clinton and her advisers have a firm grasp of the fissures and alliances that are now beginning to change the party's traditional landscape. And it's not clear that they do
.


There have been huge economic changes in the nation and also in the minds of the people who are living in these times of such great inequality. I don't think the DNC was ready or willing for these changes, and I don't believe the Clintons really understand yet.

I am not sure what is going to happen in the next few weeks and months. But the activist voices are getting louder.

Those voices are not going away.
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Kick! FloriTexan Jan 2016 #1
Bout time... oh, and shame on you, Hillary Clinton! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2016 #82
Sorry - We need Bernie in the WH and Elizabeth in the SENTATE Ferd Berfel Jan 2016 #86
A comment from NYT article that was very revealing indeed. madfloridian Jan 2016 #2
"Hey, it's going to be O.K." tazkcmo Jan 2016 #26
teachers submit to testing. I had no idea she wanted that. That seals it for me roguevalley Jan 2016 #27
Yes, her relations with Ark teachers not the best. madfloridian Jan 2016 #31
also...praise for charter schools antigop Jan 2016 #36
I'm a strong Bernie zentrum Jan 2016 #67
We MUST vote for her if she wins the promary greiner3 Jan 2016 #101
Why vote Hillary when we can vote for a REAL progressive? Go Bernie! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2016 #83
They show their elitism each time they sit around and talk about how to 'talk to the little people'. sabrina 1 Jan 2016 #43
That statement hit me the same way. madfloridian Jan 2016 #64
They don't talk *to the little people. sarge43 Jan 2016 #84
K&R. The scooter story is dead on. lob1 Jan 2016 #3
wow using adelson's paper as a source dsc Jan 2016 #4
Wow yourself..adelson just bought it. Reviewer not on either side. madfloridian Jan 2016 #7
really tell that to the editor who has already quit dsc Jan 2016 #8
So along that line I must not quote from Natl Geo since Murdoch owns it. madfloridian Jan 2016 #12
yes anyone who slimes Hillary is all good for you dsc Jan 2016 #16
I don't "slime" Hillary. Never have. Read the 1st 2 paragraphs at the link. madfloridian Jan 2016 #18
If Jeff Bezos starts using the post to carry out vendettas then hell yea dsc Jan 2016 #21
Well, you just keep me posted about acceptable sources. madfloridian Jan 2016 #32
Honestly I don't think it is unreasonable to say stay away from sources dsc Jan 2016 #33
BUT that article did NOT slime Hillary. Neither did I. madfloridian Jan 2016 #34
+1,000,000! Right on the money. nt MADem Jan 2016 #39
She just sent Chelsea out to say Bernie's taking away everything we have. madfloridian Jan 2016 #54
Adelson bought the paper and he has his guys in there. MADem Jan 2016 #57
The editor was tossed last month!!!! He wasted no time in (cough) "accepting a buyout." MADem Jan 2016 #49
Did you even read the link in the OP? madfloridian Jan 2016 #51
The point that Adelson bought the paper, and essentially fired the editor (take the money and leave) MADem Jan 2016 #52
Works both ways with both candidates. madfloridian Jan 2016 #53
Where am I "attacking you?" MADem Jan 2016 #55
Then you have not read the link in my OP. You are arguing with me over nothing. madfloridian Jan 2016 #56
I am not "arguing with you." I am simply bringing a link to this conversation that backs up what MADem Jan 2016 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author LiberalArkie Jan 2016 #94
Adelson? You mean the guy Debbie Wasserman Schultz worked with to keep jailing medical pot users? Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #10
please find a post where I defended her on pot dsc Jan 2016 #11
Are you Sheldon Adelson? I'm talking about him, not you. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #13
it isn't ok because he has a clear agenda which he brings to his newsroom dsc Jan 2016 #15
So you're done with DWS, then, because she worked with him to put sick pot users in prison. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #17
frankly I had problems with her without knowing she had done that dsc Jan 2016 #20
She's a train wreck. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #38
Notice how you couldn't be beat on the Adelson matter, so the subject got galloped over to DWS? MADem Jan 2016 #41
If Adelson is persona non grata, great. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #80
There's nothing to forgive. nt MADem Jan 2016 #89
She told John Morgan if he quit attacking her, she would not fight his medical pot initiative. madfloridian Jan 2016 #35
I donated to Canova, also! Duval Jan 2016 #98
Do you mean the DNC chair hired by President Barack Obama, our party head? That DNC chair? MADem Jan 2016 #40
Yeah, but he never worked with Sheldon Adelson to put sick people in prison for pot. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #42
Obama has the power to tell her "You're fired." He does not do that. MADem Jan 2016 #48
From where I stand, DeMontague can tell his tale of woe wherever he pleases. n/t JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #62
Why yes, he most certainly can. MADem Jan 2016 #63
a couple of bucks? More like four. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #79
I don't go there either. The stuff tastes like battery acid. nt MADem Jan 2016 #90
DeMontague's tale of woe. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #78
Ha ha ha! That's BRILLIANT!!!!! nt MADem Jan 2016 #93
Since she was later elected by the DNC.... madfloridian Jan 2016 #65
She wasn't 'elected by the DNC.' She was appointed chair by the party leader, MADem Jan 2016 #66
Here is the article and her statement about being elected. I'm not sure of facts... madfloridian Jan 2016 #69
She was appointed by Barack Obama. Joe Biden announced it. MADem Jan 2016 #70
Of course he chose her. I know that for a fact. Presidents do that. madfloridian Jan 2016 #71
She likely went through some sort of re-vetting process in 2013. MADem Jan 2016 #72
I'm sure he's thought about it. But, that's not what I'm on about. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #77
Did you ever stop and think that most people don't WANT to defend her on that issue because they do MADem Jan 2016 #91
Intellectually dishonest comment. He just bought the paper. Line of reasoning rejected. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2016 #44
Ummm. no. MADem Jan 2016 #50
Wow, using deception to try to influence readers. Adelson just bought it, unfortunately, and we most sabrina 1 Jan 2016 #46
as I pointed out, in this very thread, which you apparently were too lazy to read dsc Jan 2016 #107
Oh, Godwin..... paleotn Jan 2016 #96
Oh, geez... chervilant Jan 2016 #106
Because the core argument of her campaign is "vote for me because I'm Hillary Clinton" Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #5
she assumed women and youth were hers roguevalley Jan 2016 #30
These voices come from a younger generation sadoldgirl Jan 2016 #6
And some older as well. madfloridian Jan 2016 #37
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jan 2016 #9
It's technically accurate, but practically false. elleng Jan 2016 #14
Perfect wording for the example...made the point well. madfloridian Jan 2016 #75
K&R CharlotteVale Jan 2016 #19
I agree with Steven leser Doctor_J Jan 2016 #22
............ madfloridian Jan 2016 #24
lol n/t tazkcmo Jan 2016 #28
Love the signature line too. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2016 #45
Me too ... sabrina 1 Jan 2016 #47
The oligarchs were hoping for one more Wall St. Democrat before "It's the Republican's turn." jalan48 Jan 2016 #23
I think trump also upset them Locrian Jan 2016 #92
Those voices are not going away. SoLeftIAmRight Jan 2016 #25
I read that after Reagan busted the unions and destroyed manufacturing,... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #29
The Clintons are slow learners. They are stuck in the 90s. Arugula Latte Jan 2016 #100
For those who refuse to read the opening paragraphs which are NOT anti-hillary at all.... madfloridian Jan 2016 #59
K&R. Enough is enough is enough. #DownHill. nt stillwaiting Jan 2016 #60
Kicked and recommended a whole bunch! Enthusiast Jan 2016 #61
Thank you. madfloridian Jan 2016 #74
does anyone seriously believe that HIllary and her campaign correctly represented Sen. Sanders' Douglas Carpenter Jan 2016 #68
Good points. madfloridian Jan 2016 #73
it's seriously insulting the intelligence of the voters, that they think that's gonna work. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #81
.... madfloridian Jan 2016 #85
Stripping a message down to its essence is difficult when the message is merrily Jan 2016 #76
Kids, Clinton is not now nor has she ever been a Liberal or Progressive` Ferd Berfel Jan 2016 #87
I consider all of her top advisors to low life scum FlatBaroque Jan 2016 #88
Excellent, excellent OP, Thank you n/t Tom Rinaldo Jan 2016 #95
Thanks, Tom. madfloridian Jan 2016 #97
The personal rancor that swirlded around was certainly petty Tom Rinaldo Jan 2016 #102
"I don't think there was any real awareness among the party leaders, including the Clintons, of the Arugula Latte Jan 2016 #99
They have actually forgotten we're here....they've ignored us so long. madfloridian Jan 2016 #103
Oh boy. Let's try this again. jmowreader Jan 2016 #104
K & R !!! WillyT Jan 2016 #105
I'm Hollering & Screaming Along With This New ChiciB1 Jan 2016 #108
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