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In reply to the discussion: Religion is not the Problem: But is it the Answer...? [View all]Tigress DEM
(7,887 posts)75. Per Wiki: Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
<snip>
Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed,[1][2][3][4] and biblical scholars and classical historians regard theories of his non-existence as effectively refuted.[5][6][7]
^ a b c In a 2011 review of the state of modern scholarship, Bart Ehrman (now a secular agnostic who was formerly Evangelical) wrote: "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees" B. Ehrman, 2011 Forged : writing in the name of God ISBN 978-0-06-207863-6. page 285
^ Robert M. Price (a Christian atheist who denies the existence of Jesus) agrees that this perspective runs against the views of the majority of scholars: Robert M. Price "Jesus at the Vanishing Point" in The Historical Jesus: Five Views edited by James K. Beilby & Paul Rhodes Eddy, 2009 InterVarsity, ISBN 028106329X page 61
^ a b Michael Grant (a classicist) states that "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." in Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels by Micjhael Grant 2004 ISBN 1898799881 page 200
^ a b Richard A. Burridge states: "There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Churchs imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that any more." in Jesus Now and Then by Richard A. Burridge and Graham Gould (Apr 1, 2004) ISBN 0802809774 page 34
^ a b c d Robert E. Van Voorst Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence Eerdmans Publishing, 2000. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 page 16 states: "biblical scholars and classical historians regard theories of non-existence of Jesus as effectively refuted"
^ a b James D. G. Dunn "Paul's understanding of the death of Jesus" in Sacrifice and Redemption edited by S. W. Sykes (Dec 3, 2007) Cambridge University Press ISBN 052104460X pages 35-36 states that the theories of non-existence of Jesus are "a thoroughly dead thesis"
^ a b c The Gospels and Jesus by Graham Stanton, 1989 ISBN 0192132415 Oxford University Press, page 145 states : "Today nearly all historians, whether Christians or not, accept that Jesus existed".
ROMAN HISTORY
http://dmc.members.sonic.net/sentinel/naij3.html
<snip>
Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus recorded information pertaining to Jesus, thus removing the only supporting source for His existence as being in the New Testament. In 115 A.D., Tactius wrote about the great fire in Rome, "Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberious at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus,
A layman's opinion of the conflicting scholarly reports:
http://www.historian.net/NTHX.html
<clip>
YeSHUa bar YoSEF (Jesus) was born on Yom Kippur, October 3, 7 BCE in the village of Bethlehem during a registration instituted by Augustus on an occasion when he was enraged at Herod's behavior. This registration was overseen by Publius Sulpicius Quirinius and was a preliminary to a direct Roman taxation. The taxation from this registration in 7/6 BCE was delayed as a result of Herod's age and health. The even more outrageous behavior of Herod's successor, Archelaus, who was deposed, and infighting among the other Herodian scions, convinced Augustus to institute a praefecture and the first official Roman census and taxation in 6 CE and to liquidate the estate of the deposed Archelaus.(4) It is this official first census in Syria that confuses scholars regarding the birth of Jesus since Quirinius again was sent by Caesar as legate under the new prefecture. Coponius accompanied Quirinius and was the first prefect.
<snip>
Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed,[1][2][3][4] and biblical scholars and classical historians regard theories of his non-existence as effectively refuted.[5][6][7]
^ a b c In a 2011 review of the state of modern scholarship, Bart Ehrman (now a secular agnostic who was formerly Evangelical) wrote: "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees" B. Ehrman, 2011 Forged : writing in the name of God ISBN 978-0-06-207863-6. page 285
^ Robert M. Price (a Christian atheist who denies the existence of Jesus) agrees that this perspective runs against the views of the majority of scholars: Robert M. Price "Jesus at the Vanishing Point" in The Historical Jesus: Five Views edited by James K. Beilby & Paul Rhodes Eddy, 2009 InterVarsity, ISBN 028106329X page 61
^ a b Michael Grant (a classicist) states that "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." in Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels by Micjhael Grant 2004 ISBN 1898799881 page 200
^ a b Richard A. Burridge states: "There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Churchs imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that any more." in Jesus Now and Then by Richard A. Burridge and Graham Gould (Apr 1, 2004) ISBN 0802809774 page 34
^ a b c d Robert E. Van Voorst Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence Eerdmans Publishing, 2000. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 page 16 states: "biblical scholars and classical historians regard theories of non-existence of Jesus as effectively refuted"
^ a b James D. G. Dunn "Paul's understanding of the death of Jesus" in Sacrifice and Redemption edited by S. W. Sykes (Dec 3, 2007) Cambridge University Press ISBN 052104460X pages 35-36 states that the theories of non-existence of Jesus are "a thoroughly dead thesis"
^ a b c The Gospels and Jesus by Graham Stanton, 1989 ISBN 0192132415 Oxford University Press, page 145 states : "Today nearly all historians, whether Christians or not, accept that Jesus existed".
ROMAN HISTORY
http://dmc.members.sonic.net/sentinel/naij3.html
<snip>
Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus recorded information pertaining to Jesus, thus removing the only supporting source for His existence as being in the New Testament. In 115 A.D., Tactius wrote about the great fire in Rome, "Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberious at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus,
A layman's opinion of the conflicting scholarly reports:
http://www.historian.net/NTHX.html
<clip>
YeSHUa bar YoSEF (Jesus) was born on Yom Kippur, October 3, 7 BCE in the village of Bethlehem during a registration instituted by Augustus on an occasion when he was enraged at Herod's behavior. This registration was overseen by Publius Sulpicius Quirinius and was a preliminary to a direct Roman taxation. The taxation from this registration in 7/6 BCE was delayed as a result of Herod's age and health. The even more outrageous behavior of Herod's successor, Archelaus, who was deposed, and infighting among the other Herodian scions, convinced Augustus to institute a praefecture and the first official Roman census and taxation in 6 CE and to liquidate the estate of the deposed Archelaus.(4) It is this official first census in Syria that confuses scholars regarding the birth of Jesus since Quirinius again was sent by Caesar as legate under the new prefecture. Coponius accompanied Quirinius and was the first prefect.
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IMO, the greatest danger of practicing religion is that it trains one to evaluate life issues
ladjf
Jan 2013
#1
There really is no true objectivity. Even science cannot withstand the role of the self. nt
Flabbergasted
Jan 2013
#2
Religions are numerous and they are pliable. There is the religion of Tibetan Buddhism which
Flabbergasted
Jan 2013
#25
Religion is a symbolism of what the mind cannot possibly grasp. There are no gods no, but there is
Flabbergasted
Jan 2013
#8
1000's of years anecdotal history of spiritual experience by my ancestors, and my own personal
Flabbergasted
Jan 2013
#10
I don't see why thousands of years of history should be dismissed? You can even place this history
Flabbergasted
Jan 2013
#17
The central premise of religion was never meant to withstand the "evidence" you are talking about.
Flabbergasted
Jan 2013
#36
You're not seeing what religion is actually about. Religion is very simple, it needs no evidence,
Flabbergasted
Jan 2013
#50
Because no one has ever gone through a black hole and come back with factual data.
Tigress DEM
Jan 2013
#72
That is all a misunderstanding of religion on either side. That is precisely the issue I wrote
Flabbergasted
Jan 2013
#20
So much of what religion teaches is fact based, you are cherry picking fundamentalist teachings....
Tigress DEM
Jan 2013
#55
He is documented historically. That Jesus lived is a fact. It's been investigated ad naseum.
Tigress DEM
Jan 2013
#71
Per Wiki: Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed
Tigress DEM
Jan 2013
#75
There is actually according to "The Jesus Dynasty" tremendous amounts of historical records of
Flabbergasted
Jan 2013
#80
Josephus the Jewish historian. Some prime evidence is the existence of the oral history that led
Flabbergasted
Jan 2013
#85
The best answer to the question of why should I go to church came from a priest many years ago.
rug
Jan 2013
#21
That is really the essence of the spiritual path vs the religious. They each fulfill their time
Flabbergasted
Jan 2013
#24
Yes, the Catholic Church became a powerful component in the world. Still is.
Tigress DEM
Jan 2013
#74
Well scottie, it seems it's you, scottie, not him accusing me of having a "myopic worldview".
rug
Jan 2013
#45
Sorry, I have no clue what your talking about. Could you rephrase? I am a fool after-all:
Flabbergasted
Jan 2013
#46
So true...to actually present a religious conservative with The Beatitudes is almost comical, if not
libdem4life
Jan 2013
#27
I think we really don't "need" religion but the fact is that by account of a spiritual path there
Flabbergasted
Jan 2013
#31
Religion is the byproduct of a master's teaching disintegrated by the ego's that follow.
Flabbergasted
Jan 2013
#78
You cannot combat a misunderstanding with a misunderstanding is more apt. nt
Flabbergasted
Jan 2013
#79