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In reply to the discussion: Is Richard Dawkins destroying his reputation? [View all]beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)159. Pope Francis’ new clothes: Why his progressive image is white smoke and mirrors
Pope Francis new clothes: Why his progressive image is white smoke and mirrors
Don't buy his populist rhetoric. The new pope is every bit the sexist homophobe as his predecessors
THE IMAGE OF Pope Francis is that he is a breath of fresh air, more progressive on social issues than his predecessor and a kinder, gentler pope. But when the facts are examined, you see that he is none of these things. There is an enormous disconnect between who the pope really is in terms of his policies and his public relations image, as crafted by the Vaticans PR man, previously with Fox News. The current PR mission is all about reversing the incredible decline in fundraising under the last pope from the U.S. Catholic Church in particular. Pope Francis has made any number of statements that seem to indicate change and progress that are not reflected in policy. In fact, in the wake of such comments from Pope Francis, the Vatican often makes a point to explicitly state that no church policy has changed.
While the pope transmits a populist vibeparticularly about the economy he is an old-school conservative who, despite his great PR, maintains nearly all of the socialpolicies of his predecessors and keeps up a hardline Vatican cabinet. He has done virtually nothing to change the policies of the church to match his more compassionate rhetoric. People excuse the pope, claiming that he doesnt have much power to make changes, but this simply isnt true. Further, it is ludicrous to suggest that a man who denies comprehensive reproductive health care (including all forms of birth control including condoms and abortion) and comprehensive family planning is a man who cares about the poor of this world. The bigotry of homophobia and sexism cloaked in religion are still bigotry and sexism. By giving to the church, American Catholics arent supporting progress, they are supporting oppression and in this way are complicit in the bigotry, sexism, and oppression of the church.
...
On January 17, 2014, Politico pointed out that in an interview given by the pope in August 2013, and published in September of that year, Pope Francis said the church did not have to talk about gay marriage and abortion all the time. And yet, the very next day (after the interview was published) Francis condemned abortion as unjust. Furthermore, after the interview was given, a week before its publication, the pope excommunicated a priest from Melbourne, Australia, Greg Reynolds, for advocating for female clergy and gay marriage. Pope Franciss seemingly understanding words about gay marriage and abortion were sandwiched in between two events that completely undermined that message. Pope Francis is wise, though, to grab headlines that make him seem less homophobic than his predecessors, because in the United States, home of the churchs funding base, most Catholics support marriage equality.
...
Instead, the church has the same focus on dogma over helping the poor, the same oppressive views on women and homosexuals, and the same abhorrent behavior in response to the sex abuse scandals. There is zero flexibility on contraception, abortion, gay rights, womens role in the church. Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI were at least honest salesmen; they told you exactly what you were getting. Pope Francis is much craftier than that. He uses his charm and humility (and a strong public relations strategy) to achieve the same goal as a used car salesman: to separate you from your money. American Catholics must put their faith and money where their mouth is if they want to see real change in the church. The idea that one can remain an active member of the church and expect ideological change only encourages the current pope to continue the practice of saying one thing and doing another. And why not? His numbers are up. The Catholic Churchs numbers are up. And it stands to reason that donations from American Catholics follow his favorability numbers and rise dramatically.
The church has a right to promote its beliefs and Pope Francis has a right to wage the best, smartest PR campaign he caneven if it is smoke and mirrors. But its wrong for a lazy media to tout Pope Francis as a reformer when hes nothing of the sort. I hope the media will stop promoting Pope Francis as a liberal.
We should not allow comforting rhetoric to distract us from the actions of a church that continues to enact and enforce policies that hurt women, homosexuals, and the poor. We should look at the ways in which our dollars in the collection plate are used. For many years the prominent writer Anna Quindlen, a liberal feminist, remained a Catholic while publicly and vehemently disagreeing with the church on social issues. But in 2012 Quindlen was quoted as saying, Enough every time I sit in this pew I ratify this behavior, and Im not going to ratify it anymore. The great Catholic activist Dorothy Day said of people, It is best to disregard their talk and judge only their actions. Catholics would be wise to take her advice.
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/22/pope_franciss_liberal_reformer_image_is_all_smoke_and_mirrors_partner/
Don't buy his populist rhetoric. The new pope is every bit the sexist homophobe as his predecessors
THE IMAGE OF Pope Francis is that he is a breath of fresh air, more progressive on social issues than his predecessor and a kinder, gentler pope. But when the facts are examined, you see that he is none of these things. There is an enormous disconnect between who the pope really is in terms of his policies and his public relations image, as crafted by the Vaticans PR man, previously with Fox News. The current PR mission is all about reversing the incredible decline in fundraising under the last pope from the U.S. Catholic Church in particular. Pope Francis has made any number of statements that seem to indicate change and progress that are not reflected in policy. In fact, in the wake of such comments from Pope Francis, the Vatican often makes a point to explicitly state that no church policy has changed.
While the pope transmits a populist vibeparticularly about the economy he is an old-school conservative who, despite his great PR, maintains nearly all of the socialpolicies of his predecessors and keeps up a hardline Vatican cabinet. He has done virtually nothing to change the policies of the church to match his more compassionate rhetoric. People excuse the pope, claiming that he doesnt have much power to make changes, but this simply isnt true. Further, it is ludicrous to suggest that a man who denies comprehensive reproductive health care (including all forms of birth control including condoms and abortion) and comprehensive family planning is a man who cares about the poor of this world. The bigotry of homophobia and sexism cloaked in religion are still bigotry and sexism. By giving to the church, American Catholics arent supporting progress, they are supporting oppression and in this way are complicit in the bigotry, sexism, and oppression of the church.
...
On January 17, 2014, Politico pointed out that in an interview given by the pope in August 2013, and published in September of that year, Pope Francis said the church did not have to talk about gay marriage and abortion all the time. And yet, the very next day (after the interview was published) Francis condemned abortion as unjust. Furthermore, after the interview was given, a week before its publication, the pope excommunicated a priest from Melbourne, Australia, Greg Reynolds, for advocating for female clergy and gay marriage. Pope Franciss seemingly understanding words about gay marriage and abortion were sandwiched in between two events that completely undermined that message. Pope Francis is wise, though, to grab headlines that make him seem less homophobic than his predecessors, because in the United States, home of the churchs funding base, most Catholics support marriage equality.
...
Instead, the church has the same focus on dogma over helping the poor, the same oppressive views on women and homosexuals, and the same abhorrent behavior in response to the sex abuse scandals. There is zero flexibility on contraception, abortion, gay rights, womens role in the church. Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI were at least honest salesmen; they told you exactly what you were getting. Pope Francis is much craftier than that. He uses his charm and humility (and a strong public relations strategy) to achieve the same goal as a used car salesman: to separate you from your money. American Catholics must put their faith and money where their mouth is if they want to see real change in the church. The idea that one can remain an active member of the church and expect ideological change only encourages the current pope to continue the practice of saying one thing and doing another. And why not? His numbers are up. The Catholic Churchs numbers are up. And it stands to reason that donations from American Catholics follow his favorability numbers and rise dramatically.
The church has a right to promote its beliefs and Pope Francis has a right to wage the best, smartest PR campaign he caneven if it is smoke and mirrors. But its wrong for a lazy media to tout Pope Francis as a reformer when hes nothing of the sort. I hope the media will stop promoting Pope Francis as a liberal.
We should not allow comforting rhetoric to distract us from the actions of a church that continues to enact and enforce policies that hurt women, homosexuals, and the poor. We should look at the ways in which our dollars in the collection plate are used. For many years the prominent writer Anna Quindlen, a liberal feminist, remained a Catholic while publicly and vehemently disagreeing with the church on social issues. But in 2012 Quindlen was quoted as saying, Enough every time I sit in this pew I ratify this behavior, and Im not going to ratify it anymore. The great Catholic activist Dorothy Day said of people, It is best to disregard their talk and judge only their actions. Catholics would be wise to take her advice.
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/22/pope_franciss_liberal_reformer_image_is_all_smoke_and_mirrors_partner/
Funny how you "lap that shit up" and then defend it here.
You are unbelievably dismissive and apologetic about the homophobic rhetoric used by this pope and the RCC's continued vilification of lgbt people.
I have not seen or heard anything from Francis that implies any bigotry towards gays
Considering your own homophobic slurs about same sex marriage I can see why you're blind to his.
And why you like this pope so much.
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Those whose only goal is to attack religion have no interest in reading comprehension
Starboard Tack
Jun 2015
#102
So by that logic, you're going to start posting about the pope and his reputation, right?
trotsky
Jun 2015
#15
The pope is the center of the universe for theophobes and belligerent atheists
Starboard Tack
Jun 2015
#93
It makes you a bigot. Same as if you were opposed to interracial marriage.
Warren Stupidity
Jun 2015
#167
How is that deflection? She posted this OP. Or did you miss that reality?
Goblinmonger
Jun 2015
#110
"a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God."
beam me up scottie
Jun 2015
#173
"At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance"
beam me up scottie
Jun 2015
#174
"and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God."
beam me up scottie
Jun 2015
#175
"The family is threatened by growing efforts on the part of some to redefine the very institution...
beam me up scottie
Jun 2015
#176
Denying someone their human rights because he believes they're inferior does make him a bigot.
beam me up scottie
Jun 2015
#189
"Being opposed to gay marriage does not make someone a homophobe or bigot"
Warren Stupidity
Jun 2015
#140
Apparently he's ignored all of the previous posts about pope homophobe.
beam me up scottie
Jun 2015
#157
Those links are good to have handy whenever people are singing the pope's praises.
beam me up scottie
Jun 2015
#182
See your last post where you lashed out at atheists for calling out your homophobic comments:
beam me up scottie
Jun 2015
#191
Did you vote in the GD poll? And defend religious homophobia in the thread?
beam me up scottie
Jun 2015
#194
As you can see I'm not the only one who thinks homophobic behaviour makes one a homophobe:
beam me up scottie
Jun 2015
#196
According to the definition at religoustolerance.org both you and the pope are homophobic.
beam me up scottie
Jun 2015
#203
I am not your "fan" and I don't find your defense of religious bigotry the least bit amusing.
beam me up scottie
Jun 2015
#207
Now you're saying that people who are opposed to interracial marriage aren't bigots.
beam me up scottie
Jun 2015
#198
Pope Francis’ new clothes: Why his progressive image is white smoke and mirrors
beam me up scottie
Jun 2015
#159
Plus you know, like lecturing at Oxford, some sort of backwater has been unknown school.
Warren Stupidity
Jun 2015
#82
"admiration for Darwin in the way a schoolboy might worship a sporting giant."
Warren Stupidity
Jun 2015
#11
So you understand that this is basically a reverse argument from authority right?
Promethean
Jun 2015
#22
Irrelevant. It's a chance to post something negative about DAWKINS!!!111!!!!
cleanhippie
Jun 2015
#23
Clearly. I mean, everyone else who doesn't see things your way must be stupid, right? n/t
trotsky
Jun 2015
#53
You so misjudge me and I am sure you have your reasons, but this is really about you, not me.
cbayer
Jun 2015
#41
And to think I was so worried about who would step up to post malarkey articles about Atheists
Heddi
Jun 2015
#39
His last peer-reviewed scientific paper was published over three decades ago
struggle4progress
Jun 2015
#40
I still think he has performed an important role and, in the end, will be honored for that.
cbayer
Jun 2015
#43
The atheisms of Marx, Nietzsche, and Freud were influential long before Dawkins appeared;
struggle4progress
Jun 2015
#58