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beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
159. Pope Francis’ new clothes: Why his progressive image is white smoke and mirrors
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 06:43 PM
Jun 2015
Pope Francis’ new clothes: Why his progressive image is white smoke and mirrors
Don't buy his populist rhetoric. The new pope is every bit the sexist homophobe as his predecessors

THE IMAGE OF Pope Francis is that he is a breath of fresh air, more progressive on social issues than his predecessor and a kinder, gentler pope. But when the facts are examined, you see that he is none of these things. There is an enormous disconnect between who the pope really is in terms of his policies and his public relations image, as crafted by the Vatican’s PR man, previously with Fox News. The current PR mission is all about reversing the incredible decline in fundraising under the last pope from the U.S. Catholic Church in particular. Pope Francis has made any number of statements that seem to indicate change and progress that are not reflected in policy. In fact, in the wake of such comments from Pope Francis, the Vatican often makes a point to explicitly state that no church policy has changed.

While the pope transmits a populist vibe—particularly about the economy— he is an old-school conservative who, despite his great PR, maintains nearly all of the socialpolicies of his predecessors and keeps up a hardline Vatican “cabinet.” He has done virtually nothing to change the policies of the church to match his more compassionate rhetoric. People excuse the pope, claiming that he doesn’t have much power to make changes, but this simply isn’t true. Further, it is ludicrous to suggest that a man who denies comprehensive reproductive health care (including all forms of birth control including condoms and abortion) and comprehensive family planning is a man who cares about the poor of this world. The bigotry of homophobia and sexism cloaked in religion are still bigotry and sexism. By giving to the church, American Catholics aren’t supporting “progress,” they are supporting oppression and in this way are complicit in the bigotry, sexism, and oppression of the church.

...

On January 17, 2014, Politico pointed out that in an interview given by the pope in August 2013, and published in September of that year, “Pope Francis said the church did not have to talk about gay marriage and abortion all the time.” And yet, “the very next day (after the interview was published) Francis condemned abortion as ‘unjust.’” Furthermore, after the interview was given, a week before its publication, the pope excommunicated a priest from Melbourne, Australia, Greg Reynolds, for advocating for female clergy and gay marriage. Pope Francis’s seemingly understanding words about gay marriage and abortion were sandwiched in between two events that completely undermined that message. Pope Francis is wise, though, to grab headlines that make him seem less homophobic than his predecessors, because in the United States, home of the church’s funding base, most Catholics support marriage equality.

...

Instead, the church has the same focus on dogma over helping the poor, the same oppressive views on women and homosexuals, and the same abhorrent behavior in response to the sex abuse scandals. There is zero flexibility on contraception, abortion, gay rights, women’s role in the church. Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI were at least honest salesmen; they told you exactly what you were getting. Pope Francis is much craftier than that. He uses his charm and humility (and a strong public relations strategy) to achieve the same goal as a used car salesman: to separate you from your money. American Catholics must put their faith and money where their mouth is if they want to see real change in the church. The idea that one can remain an active member of the church and expect ideological change only encourages the current pope to continue the practice of saying one thing and doing another. And why not? His numbers are up. The Catholic Church’s numbers are up. And it stands to reason that donations from American Catholics follow his favorability numbers and rise dramatically.

The church has a right to promote its beliefs and Pope Francis has a right to wage the best, smartest PR campaign he can—even if it is smoke and mirrors. But it’s wrong for a lazy media to tout Pope Francis as a reformer when he’s nothing of the sort. I hope the media will stop promoting Pope Francis as a liberal.

We should not allow comforting rhetoric to distract us from the actions of a church that continues to enact and enforce policies that hurt women, homosexuals, and the poor. We should look at the ways in which our dollars in the collection plate are used. For many years the prominent writer Anna Quindlen, a liberal feminist, remained a Catholic while publicly and vehemently disagreeing with the church on social issues. But in 2012 Quindlen was quoted as saying, “Enough … every time I sit in this pew I ratify this behavior, and I’m not going to ratify it anymore.” The great Catholic activist Dorothy Day said of people, “It is best to disregard their talk and judge only their actions.” Catholics would be wise to take her advice.

http://www.salon.com/2014/06/22/pope_franciss_liberal_reformer_image_is_all_smoke_and_mirrors_partner/



Funny how you "lap that shit up" and then defend it here.

You are unbelievably dismissive and apologetic about the homophobic rhetoric used by this pope and the RCC's continued vilification of lgbt people.


I have not seen or heard anything from Francis that implies any bigotry towards gays


Considering your own homophobic slurs about same sex marriage I can see why you're blind to his.

And why you like this pope so much.



Destroying his reputation? Not at all. Jackpine Radical Jun 2015 #1
How was he being an intolerant jerk? Goblinmonger Jun 2015 #3
I believe in respecting others' beliefs and leaving them alone Jackpine Radical Jun 2015 #18
Brilliant tymorial Jun 2015 #27
Oh please...do enlighten us with your list skepticscott Jun 2015 #56
Please reread my post. tymorial Jun 2015 #61
If you want to deflect by nitpicking, fine skepticscott Jun 2015 #63
There you go again, putting words into other people's mouths. Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #92
Yeah edhopper Jun 2015 #94
Nothing wrong with challenging religious beliefs Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #193
It'd be sad skepticscott Jun 2015 #98
Prego! Manco un secondo ci voleva. Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #104
Seems to be taking a lot longer than that, Tack skepticscott Jun 2015 #109
un angelo con le corna edhopper Jun 2015 #112
Davvero! Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #121
What would that overlap be? trotsky Jun 2015 #59
As I pointed out to the other respondant to my reply tymorial Jun 2015 #62
I asked you a question. trotsky Jun 2015 #64
I'd say in his case, there probably is skepticscott Jun 2015 #65
It's all about triangulation. trotsky Jun 2015 #66
Or to accuse the other skepticscott Jun 2015 #68
I see our rather outraged friend skepticscott Jun 2015 #97
Those whose only goal is to attack religion have no interest in reading comprehension Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #102
Sorry, Tack...your buddy has fled skepticscott Jun 2015 #106
It's almost like they're vermin? truebrit71 Jun 2015 #126
I dunno. What do you think? Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #134
I personally wouldn't call anyone 'vermin'... truebrit71 Jun 2015 #137
Deep and absolute sense of righteousness. tymorial Jun 2015 #163
Here or back, you've still fled from the important issues raised skepticscott Jun 2015 #165
as long as those beliefs don't cause them to do harm to others. AlbertCat Jun 2015 #72
Well, everyone's wrong some times, and this is one of yours. mr blur Jun 2015 #139
But is what he has built his career around starting to crumble? cbayer Jun 2015 #9
biology? Warren Stupidity Jun 2015 #14
So by that logic, you're going to start posting about the pope and his reputation, right? trotsky Jun 2015 #15
What does the pope have to do with this story? yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #51
Everything. n/t trotsky Jun 2015 #52
Or nothing yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #55
You are most certainly entitled to your opinion. trotsky Jun 2015 #57
True. Have a great day. yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #60
The pope is the center of the universe for theophobes and belligerent atheists Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #93
Yes edhopper Jun 2015 #95
He's pretty cool with everyone, actually. Not just gays. Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #108
So, so cool edhopper Jun 2015 #111
Being opposed to same sex marriage does not make one a homophobe Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #164
Early returns are running strongly against your assertion skepticscott Jun 2015 #166
It makes you a bigot. Same as if you were opposed to interracial marriage. Warren Stupidity Jun 2015 #167
Yeah, edhopper Jun 2015 #168
No, actually, it is not the same thing Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #186
So far 96% disagree with you. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #184
new meme try edhopper Jun 2015 #96
Right? truebrit71 Jun 2015 #113
That's not true and you know it. But nice deflection try. Goblinmonger Jun 2015 #99
Apparently a "tolerant" atheist skepticscott Jun 2015 #101
That's why so many in here like him. Goblinmonger Jun 2015 #103
My wife? And you talk to me about deflection? Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #105
How is that deflection? She posted this OP. Or did you miss that reality? Goblinmonger Jun 2015 #110
It's almost like there edhopper Jun 2015 #114
Like how anti-atheists always bring up Dawkins Lordquinton Jun 2015 #117
Well, there you go Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #120
Utterly amazing Lordquinton Jun 2015 #135
Which direct quotes? Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #138
Edhopper literally just posted his anti-gay marriage quote Lordquinton Jun 2015 #146
So, is that a quote of Ed or Francis? Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #170
So now that you have been shown several direct quotes Lordquinton Jun 2015 #169
Which direct quotes? Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #171
"a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God." beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #173
"At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance" beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #174
"and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God." beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #175
"The family is threatened by growing efforts on the part of some to redefine the very institution... beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #176
As much as we may disagree with him on this Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #187
Denying someone their human rights because he believes they're inferior does make him a bigot. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #189
He doesn't just believe they're "inferior" skepticscott Jun 2015 #200
Nope. Tack says religious homophobia isn't really bigotry. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #205
Don't botherr edhopper Jun 2015 #172
Tack has to pretend the pope's not a bigot. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #178
It's not like he can use the excuse skepticscott Jun 2015 #201
Oh lots of people are reading this exchange. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #204
Which direct quotes? Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #185
Your joking, right? Lordquinton Jun 2015 #190
The jury has spoken....... davidpdx Jun 2015 #197
"Being opposed to gay marriage does not make someone a homophobe or bigot" Warren Stupidity Jun 2015 #140
Seriously Rob H. Jun 2015 #147
Depends on the textbook edhopper Jun 2015 #149
You want bigoted homophobic quotes? The pope's or yours? beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #151
Daym Lordquinton Jun 2015 #153
Oh, I'm just getting started. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #156
Now I understand why Tack thinks skepticscott Jun 2015 #154
Apparently he's ignored all of the previous posts about pope homophobe. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #157
Wow! Well done BMUS, thanks for the clarity! haikugal Jun 2015 #177
Thanks, haikugal! beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #179
Good job! Take no prisoners! haikugal Jun 2015 #181
Those links are good to have handy whenever people are singing the pope's praises. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #182
"Pope Francis: Kids Must Have Moms and Dads" beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #155
Pope Francis Against Gay Marriage, Gay Adoption beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #158
Why would I vilify atheists? Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #188
See your last post where you lashed out at atheists for calling out your homophobic comments: beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #191
Quite an imagination you have there BMUS Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #192
Did you vote in the GD poll? And defend religious homophobia in the thread? beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #194
I do not defend homophobia or bigotry of any kind. Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #195
As you can see I'm not the only one who thinks homophobic behaviour makes one a homophobe: beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #196
No. Only 5 were wrong. Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #202
According to the definition at religoustolerance.org both you and the pope are homophobic. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #203
You are correct about one thing Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #206
I am not your "fan" and I don't find your defense of religious bigotry the least bit amusing. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #207
Au contraire dear BMUS Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #208
Now you're saying that people who are opposed to interracial marriage aren't bigots. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #198
Pope Francis’ new clothes: Why his progressive image is white smoke and mirrors beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #159
Pope's Shocking Hitler Youth Comparison beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #160
'If You Oppose Equal Marriage, You Are a Bigot' beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #199
But is what he has built his career around starting to crumble? AlbertCat Jun 2015 #74
That's so cute! You think he built his career around genetic biology. cbayer Jun 2015 #77
He hasn't done any evolutionary biology in over 35 years. AlbertCat Jun 2015 #81
Plus you know, like lecturing at Oxford, some sort of backwater has been unknown school. Warren Stupidity Jun 2015 #82
He's still an intolerant jerk. AlbertCat Jun 2015 #71
"Crusading" even Goblinmonger Jun 2015 #2
Ruh roh AtheistCrusader Jun 2015 #5
Is he going to take over St John's title of Moorslayer? Goblinmonger Jun 2015 #7
Why is his choice of protein of any interest? AtheistCrusader Jun 2015 #4
Chicken eatin' asshole. Goblinmonger Jun 2015 #6
His views on vegetarianism and his own choices of diet have cbayer Jun 2015 #8
I tagged it for later review and stopped reading there. AtheistCrusader Jun 2015 #10
Hope it is good busy and not bad busy. cbayer Jun 2015 #13
"admiration for Darwin in the way a schoolboy might worship a sporting giant." Warren Stupidity Jun 2015 #11
But...but...he's a big poopy head Goblinmonger Jun 2015 #12
I saw that too edhopper Jun 2015 #16
Stupid scientists anyway pokerfan Jun 2015 #17
A hodgepodge article lacking in both style and substance Yorktown Jun 2015 #19
K&R! hrmjustin Jun 2015 #20
It's long but a really good overview of his life up to this point. cbayer Jun 2015 #21
So you understand that this is basically a reverse argument from authority right? Promethean Jun 2015 #22
Irrelevant. It's a chance to post something negative about DAWKINS!!!111!!!! cleanhippie Jun 2015 #23
There are some poor posters here skepticscott Jun 2015 #24
Doesn't matter pokerfan Jun 2015 #25
Reputation among whom? edhopper Jun 2015 #26
Or those that approach him with a certain level of critical thinking. cbayer Jun 2015 #28
you think I was being edhopper Jun 2015 #29
So I looked up bianary, because I didn't know what it meant. cbayer Jun 2015 #30
spellink alwaz bad on tablet edhopper Jun 2015 #32
How could you say the article was just petty crap? cbayer Jun 2015 #33
I am not the only one we with this opinion edhopper Jun 2015 #38
Yep. I wonder what they all have in common. cbayer Jun 2015 #42
Good critical reading? edhopper Jun 2015 #44
That's one possibility, but odds are against it. cbayer Jun 2015 #48
Clearly. I mean, everyone else who doesn't see things your way must be stupid, right? n/t trotsky Jun 2015 #53
Stupid, or big, bad meanies Yorktown Jun 2015 #85
Vermin! haikugal Jun 2015 #180
That comment was hurtful Yorktown Jun 2015 #183
But i think he needs to rethink his path. AlbertCat Jun 2015 #76
I agree. That's is a remarkable path and he deserves nothing cbayer Jun 2015 #79
Post removed Post removed Jun 2015 #87
His path toward the invisible and immaterial, I suppose? Yorktown Jun 2015 #86
I'd love to point out where this article is wrong tkmorris Jun 2015 #31
spot on nt snagglepuss Jun 2015 #34
Spot on what? cbayer Jun 2015 #36
She isn't criticizing him at all. She is merely submitting an analysis of who cbayer Jun 2015 #35
A) I did read it. Every word tkmorris Jun 2015 #37
You so misjudge me and I am sure you have your reasons, but this is really about you, not me. cbayer Jun 2015 #41
How can so many people "misjudge" you, cbayer? trotsky Jun 2015 #54
You're telling others to not be judgmental? Lordquinton Jun 2015 #91
And to think I was so worried about who would step up to post malarkey articles about Atheists Heddi Jun 2015 #39
That's a long time to spend on the island of misfit toys Major Nikon Jun 2015 #83
It's like 1.5 lents Heddi Jun 2015 #84
... trotsky Jun 2015 #100
His last peer-reviewed scientific paper was published over three decades ago struggle4progress Jun 2015 #40
I still think he has performed an important role and, in the end, will be honored for that. cbayer Jun 2015 #43
What door is that? struggle4progress Jun 2015 #45
Instead he frittered away his time skepticscott Jun 2015 #47
I think he performed an important role for the normalization of atheism cbayer Jun 2015 #49
That comment is unsubstantiated Yorktown Jun 2015 #50
The atheisms of Marx, Nietzsche, and Freud were influential long before Dawkins appeared; struggle4progress Jun 2015 #58
I don't disagree that they were all influential, but Dawkins made atheism cbayer Jun 2015 #67
Atheism has never been skepticscott Jun 2015 #69
I agree. We should leave the antagonistic hate crusades to religion.. truebrit71 Jun 2015 #119
What door? What role? Yorktown Jun 2015 #46
Destroying his reputation..... with whom? AlbertCat Jun 2015 #70
Do you include Dennet and KraUss in that group? cbayer Jun 2015 #73
Why did you feel the need to insult AlbertCat with that label? trotsky Jun 2015 #75
I did read this junk. AlbertCat Jun 2015 #78
You didn't read it. It is a very positive, almost adoring account of his life cbayer Jun 2015 #80
It helps to read the material before spouting the dogma... Yorktown Jun 2015 #89
Ah yes, but you see, that is totally different... truebrit71 Jun 2015 #115
Post removed Post removed Jun 2015 #88
Holy moly, I think you've nailed something there. trotsky Jun 2015 #90
That got hidden Lordquinton Jun 2015 #107
Extremely soft call by the jury... truebrit71 Jun 2015 #116
Jury members often read the post edhopper Jun 2015 #118
Or maybe the jury saw it for what it was. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #123
Obviously not... truebrit71 Jun 2015 #125
They disagree. Obviously! hrmjustin Jun 2015 #128
Some can't stand being called on their behaviour Lordquinton Jun 2015 #133
How dare you cbayer! Have you no shame! hrmjustin Jun 2015 #122
So now atheism is a cult? truebrit71 Jun 2015 #124
Did i say that? no. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #127
Stop putting words in your mouth? These words Justin? truebrit71 Jun 2015 #129
"So now atheism is a cult?" hrmjustin Jun 2015 #130
"The cult of Dawkins" truebrit71 Jun 2015 #131
So is dawkins the leader of Athiests? hrmjustin Jun 2015 #132
Nice try. But you fail. Again. truebrit71 Jun 2015 #136
Well, yeah you did Curmudgeoness Jun 2015 #141
The cult of personality. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #142
No, your attempt to run away from what you said is dishonest... truebrit71 Jun 2015 #143
You take care of yourself. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #144
I always do. truebrit71 Jun 2015 #145
What's really hilarious is that this is a very positive article about Dawkins. cbayer Jun 2015 #148
. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #150
Is that anything like the Christian Cult of Human Sacrifice? beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #152
Jesus had some pretty harsh things to say about hypocrisy Mariana Jun 2015 #161
Oh yes he did, lots of things: beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #162
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