Religion

cbayer

(146,218 posts)

133. One of the reasons that we have allowed psychiatric illnesses and patients

Wed Jan 29, 2014, 03:04 PM

Jan 2014

to remain in the dark ages in terms of public support is the lack of ribbons and marches and activists and voices, imo.

When someone like yourself is willing to take the risk and put it out there, you provide a powerful voice.

Like most prejudices, it is fed by lack of exposure and ignorance.

I was glad to hear Obama talk about psychiatric services for veterans last night. Perhaps this is the area where we can really kick the door down and begin to educate the general public.

And parity. Parity is critical.

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We need a ginormous food fight here, so let's have a frank little chat about demons [View all] struggle4progress Jan 2014 OP

Oh, demons exist all right ... Scuba Jan 2014 #1

I would take exception in one area. cbayer Jan 2014 #2

I agree get the red out Jan 2014 #6

When you see psychiatry illness and religion overlap, it cbayer Jan 2014 #9

In this case, both women had previous mental health issues. Jim__ Jan 2014 #7

There is ample evidence that they both had significant psychiatric issues. cbayer Jan 2014 #10

So in condemning one extreme point of view (that it was 100% religion).... trotsky Jan 2014 #12

I agree. This was about psychiatric illness. - n/t Jim__ Jan 2014 #14

Solely? trotsky Jan 2014 #16

killing someon is not apart of a exorcism. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #17

Well, unless god spoke to the individual performing it and ordered them to. trotsky Jan 2014 #20

So it is not about religion but mental illness. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #22

Both. trotsky Jan 2014 #27

You have as skewed a view of psychiatry as you do of religion. rug Jan 2014 #35

Academics, psychology, find ties between religion and mental illness Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #81

We have it on good authority skepticscott Jan 2014 #32

Yet another example that the disagreements are not on the topic, trotsky Jan 2014 #43

Yes, I think we can pretty much discount skepticscott Jan 2014 #47

Religious and Civil rackman89 Jan 2014 #79

Welcome to DU and to the Religion Group, rackman89. cbayer Jan 2014 #88

Welcome, rackman89! trotsky Jan 2014 #92

So what do you think? skepticscott Jan 2014 #153

Adding to trotsky's question skepticscott Jan 2014 #125

Of course, one of the requirements of a meaningful discussion skepticscott Jan 2014 #152

Don't feed the demons. They'll eventually go away. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #25

Lol! rug Jan 2014 #36

Oh, poor Tack skepticscott Jan 2014 #46

Is that true? Maybe "bad" people were "exorcised" from a community, by killing them? Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #83

That is not the point of an exorcism. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #84

Exorcism in the proper sense, exorcises demon from individual. But cf. individual, from community Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #85

Removing someone from the community is excommunication. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #86

If we are to believe the bible, trotsky Jan 2014 #87

When Moses found some worshiping the golden calf etc., they were removed by killing them Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #89

Somethibg clearly went wrong. Exorcisms are not designed to kill people. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #90

Exorcisms as you choose to define them, no. trotsky Jan 2014 #93

I understand that but tell me a faith that kills peopl during an exorcism currently. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #94

Do a Google search on "exorcism death". trotsky Jan 2014 #96

Is it a doctrine to kill them in the procedure or is it exorcism gone into murder? hrmjustin Jan 2014 #97

I don't know - can you read their minds? trotsky Jan 2014 #98

I would not be surprised if there was mental issues here. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #99

Do you believe that your god can heal people? trotsky Jan 2014 #100

Other than Jesus and Lazarus I think medical science brings people back from hrmjustin Jan 2014 #101

Medical science cannot bring back the dead. trotsky Jan 2014 #102

Can God do it I would say yes. Does he do it I do not think so. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #103

OK, thanks for answering my question. trotsky Jan 2014 #104

Yes many believe this. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #105

And many believe that demons and evil spirits exist, and can posses people, right? trotsky Jan 2014 #107

Yes many hold this belief. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #109

In the official RCC procedure for exorcism, the individual believed to be possessed... trotsky Jan 2014 #113

I agree exorsism deaths do happen. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #114

As I indicated, "exorcism" is rather loosely defined. trotsky Jan 2014 #115

The RCC uses the Roman Ritual. it is no secret. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #116

... trotsky Jan 2014 #117

Well I think we can agree there is no rubric to kill the person. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #118

I never said there was. trotsky Jan 2014 #119

I know you weren't. I was just making a point. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #120

Rituals of exorcism, are continuous with "purification" practices; including executing the unclean Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #127

So he could heal horribly afflicted children, but chooses not to? Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #106

You welcome to your beliefs as I am welocome to mine. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #108

Who said all beliefs are equal? The Bible definitely had preferences. So do many of us Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #130

"So we need to look to see if your beliefs are good. If they don't seem good, we try to tell you so" hrmjustin Jan 2014 #132

How about albino "witches" in Africa? PassingFair Jan 2014 #144

There is no doubt in my mind. cbayer Jan 2014 #24

If you're claiming that deaths and other tragedies can't result skepticscott Jan 2014 #33

It's worse than sad, it's willfully dishonest, designed to flame. rug Jan 2014 #37

Your own husband called it "religious nuttery," cbayer. trotsky Jan 2014 #44

Tough to get your stories straight skepticscott Jan 2014 #52

Yup. Consistency just isn't going happen... trotsky Jan 2014 #72

The core problem with DU religionists cbayer&Rug: they feel there is a "real," good religion. Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #137

Where did you get the idea you could speak for me? cbayer Jan 2014 #138

When you speak of the problem being religion gone bad, from the mentally ill... Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #139

No it doesn't. cbayer Jan 2014 #140

Could you clarify what you mean when you say some religion is not delusional? Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #142

It doesn't say anything about "good" at all. cbayer Jan 2014 #145

So where did this person get the notion in the first place skepticscott Jan 2014 #30

So where did this person get menta illness in the first place? rug Jan 2014 #39

As I have no psychiatric or psychological training, and as the OP is essentially the only effort struggle4progress Jan 2014 #13

This: trotsky Jan 2014 #15

Pre-psychiatry, most mental illness was indeed attributed to some cbayer Jan 2014 #19

So you seem to be arguing that we should shut down DU. trotsky Jan 2014 #3

I think he's arguing we should shut down bullshit. rug Jan 2014 #40

See how demonic they can be Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #41

Ah, you're right of course. rug Jan 2014 #42

Wow Goblinmonger Jan 2014 #45

Thanks! I love it when I wow people. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #110

However, that is using the "demons are evil aspects of ourselves" definition muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #4

Interesting, but... Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #18

I'm afraid my philosophical ideas about "the self" are not clear enough to allow me struggle4progress Jan 2014 #23

Don't be silly skepticscott Jan 2014 #31

True Meshuga Jan 2014 #48

We are in complete agreement here. n/t trotsky Jan 2014 #49

The US poll said 46% of the "yes" or "don't know" possession group "believe in the power of exorcism muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #50

And none of that instilling or reinforcing of idiotic and dangerous belief skepticscott Jan 2014 #53

Nope, I guess a full one third of the US population is mentally ill. trotsky Jan 2014 #73

We all have demons within ourselves. riqster Jan 2014 #5

Interesting take. longship Jan 2014 #8

This is good stuff libodem Jan 2014 #11

! struggle4progress Jan 2014 #29

Yeah, baby, that's what I'm talkin' about libodem Jan 2014 #38

Great post. Appreciate the thought you put into it. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #21

Thanks: I done thunk abouts hards I could here struggle4progress Jan 2014 #34

You! De Mon!! underpants Jan 2014 #26

! struggle4progress Jan 2014 #28

if one googles exorcism deaths Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #51

Maybe her history of psychiatric commitment has something to do with it. rug Jan 2014 #54

can a psychotic person perform a religious ritual? Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #61

Can a psychotic person write a coherent paragraph? rug Jan 2014 #62

yes. now it is your turn. can a psychotic person perform a religious ritual? Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #64

No. Any more than he or she can write a coherent paragraph while psychotic. rug Jan 2014 #146

Ah finally. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #151

can a psychotic person perform a religious ritual? Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #78

Are you having a problem that is causing repetition? rug Jan 2014 #147

Yes, I once came across a person on a discussion board who would make statements Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #149

Do tell. By all means provide the link that substantiates this claim. rug Jan 2014 #150

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #55

? struggle4progress Jan 2014 #56

What the fuck are you talking about when talking about demons? How does it relate to... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #57

I have repeatedly been attacked in this group, for some years, because of my habit of noticing struggle4progress Jan 2014 #58

But why call them demons? That's minimizing the struggle and needs of those who... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #60

What I actually say in this thread is: in the pre-scientific age, what we now call struggle4progress Jan 2014 #63

It is your position that "demons" were a pre-scientific explanation for mental illness... Act_of_Reparation Jan 2014 #65

I don't know where she got her ideas: she was reportedly convinced she could see struggle4progress Jan 2014 #67

The wife of a friend of mine Dorian Gray Jan 2014 #71

Did she invent the concept of demons all on her own? trotsky Jan 2014 #75

She wasn't brought up religious Dorian Gray Feb 2014 #154

Where did the concept of demons, and the notion of exorcism to get rid of them, come from? trotsky Feb 2014 #156

Of course not Dorian Gray Feb 2014 #157

You're the one who keeps bringing up indoctrination. trotsky Feb 2014 #158

No one is arguing religion caused the delusions. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2014 #77

Well, yeah, that would be horrible Dorian Gray Feb 2014 #155

As I have explained repeatedly, patients suffering with significant psychiatric disorders cbayer Jan 2014 #91

yes equivocation is a terrible thing to waste. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #66

You are free to provide actual evidence tracing the ideas of Avery or Sanford struggle4progress Jan 2014 #68

No, s4p, your claims require evidence. trotsky Jan 2014 #76

No, what gets you "attacked" is that you want to absolve religion's role... trotsky Jan 2014 #74

Do you prefer referring to them as religious practices as in this? rug Jan 2014 #59

I think you need to explain your use of language *very precisely* muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #69

I feel like throwing a pile of mashed potatoes Dorian Gray Jan 2014 #70

We all die of old age etc.; so in effect God kills all his sons and daughters Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #80

Demons and Existence nil desperandum Jan 2014 #82

Welcome to the Religion group, nil desperandum. cbayer Jan 2014 #95

Solid post! You clearly laid out your rules for what is and is not acceptable here in this group. cleanhippie Jan 2014 #111

+1. And welcome to the Religion group. cleanhippie Jan 2014 #112

Thank you for the kind words nil desperandum Jan 2014 #134

Excellent post! I couldn't agree more Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #121

I never thought of that. How indeed would they spend their time? rug Jan 2014 #148

I have been diagnosed with Schitzoaffective disorder, bi polar type, and paranoid delusions and bravenak Jan 2014 #122

It's really interesting that your atheism gives you the opportunity to recognize when cbayer Jan 2014 #123

I am doing so much better. bravenak Jan 2014 #124

That's the toughest point, isn't it. cbayer Jan 2014 #126

Thank you for your kind words. bravenak Jan 2014 #128

And I think brave people like yourself move things forward. cbayer Jan 2014 #129

I hope so. We are all in this together. bravenak Jan 2014 #131

One of the reasons that we have allowed psychiatric illnesses and patients cbayer Jan 2014 #133

The ignorance of others makes it hard to bring up. bravenak Jan 2014 #135

There was already a crisis and an alarming shortage of services cbayer Jan 2014 #136

The NSA scandal has certainly not helped to assuage the fears of people. bravenak Jan 2014 #141

I don't think we disagree. It doesn't help when some people have a similar belief cbayer Jan 2014 #143