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LeftishBrit

(41,205 posts)
19. Great article
Sat Feb 18, 2012, 05:29 AM
Feb 2012

'If atheists are bemused by the latest attacks on secularism, spare a thought for Britain's Christians. Most agree with equality for homosexuals, support the separation of church and state, and share the basic principles of humanism. Many of the comments supposedly made on their behalf must be as alien to them as they are to the rest of us.

The 'war on secularism' is a battle over privilege. On one side, secularists – whether Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, atheist or other – believe in freedom of (and from) religion; that faith is a personal choice and the state should be neutral in such matters. Opposing them, an elitist minority of Christians believe that one group – themselves – should enjoy privileges that others do not share.'


Agreed.

In the UK, it's not even as simple as 'the religious vs the atheists' on secularism. Until recently, religious intrusion into politics in the UK was not for the most part based much on the content of religion, but was mainly a matter of the struggle for power between Protestants and Catholics, which was linked to much of our history since the 16th century, and was particularly ugly with regard to Ireland. This had partially died down, but in the last few years - possibly mainly since the Internet made international commuications easier - I think there has been more communication between the British and American Right. (E.g. recently a Torygraph journalist called David Cameron a 'RINO' - WTF!) This, IMO, has contributed to an increased tendency for some people to attack secularism and support the preservation of British 'Christian traditions' , because they see such traditions as supporting right-wing politics. Indeed, just as you don't have to be Jewish to be a Jewish mother, in Britain you don't actually have to be a Christian to be a Christian-Rightie! Some are atheists/agnostics (e.g. Norman Tebbit) or members of religious minorities (e.g. Melanie Phillips is Jewish and Sayeeda Warsi is Muslim). To them, preserving Christian privilege is basically one part of preserving general social and economic privilege against uppitty types who want greater equality.

But some of the local anti-secularists really are religious fundies. For example, if you want to feel sick, look up 'Christian Concern for Our Nation', founded by Andrea Minichiello Williams, who thinks that the world is 4000 years old; and which now has links with the Alliance Defence Fund. I think that some of the resurgence of the British anti-secularist minority stems from recent battles within the Anglican Church, where some right-wing clergy here and abroad have rebelled against the liberal church leadership. They are particularly preoccupied with being anti-gay, though the ordination of women also features in their complaints, and I think some of them are trying to have a more general baleful political influence.


Yes. Christians should unite with atheists to defend secularism. laconicsax Feb 2012 #1
And vice versa. rug Feb 2012 #4
Do you have any evidence of Christians defending secularism against atheists? laconicsax Feb 2012 #6
Sure. rug Feb 2012 #7
Please present your evidence then. n/t laconicsax Feb 2012 #8
No, I'm not in the mood for your silly games. rug Feb 2012 #9
I'll take that as confirmation that you have no evidence. n/t laconicsax Feb 2012 #10
Take it however you want. rug Feb 2012 #11
I appreciate your support. laconicsax Feb 2012 #13
Hey, laconicsax is only asking you to support your POV - mr blur Feb 2012 #20
The need to be hostile and snarky skepticscott Feb 2012 #31
Lol. rug Feb 2012 #64
Agreed. Thats my opinion Feb 2012 #14
Well... laconicsax Feb 2012 #17
You bet! Thats my opinion Feb 2012 #22
Examples are necessary. Your claims are sweeping and general. darkstar3 Feb 2012 #25
That's not even close to what I asked. laconicsax Feb 2012 #29
I will give you one, but will not be goaded into digging up more. cbayer Feb 2012 #33
Wow! I missed that thread. laconicsax Feb 2012 #37
I think they should too. yellerpup Feb 2012 #2
Isn't freedom from religion too much like freedom from race, freedom from sects? Kurmudgeon Feb 2012 #3
Not in the slightest. laconicsax Feb 2012 #5
You make a good point. The "Christian" brand has been poisoned by the fundies Gore1FL Feb 2012 #12
If you are under rhe impression Thats my opinion Feb 2012 #15
I apparently don't know what is going on. Gore1FL Feb 2012 #18
Do you not see some of the same problem on the secularists side of the spectrum? Leontius Feb 2012 #23
This sums up my feelings: Gore1FL Feb 2012 #30
Why not answer the question I asked ? Leontius Feb 2012 #35
He did just answer it. cleanhippie Feb 2012 #36
I did answer Gore1FL Feb 2012 #42
No you did not answer my question , it had nothing to do religious belief Leontius Feb 2012 #43
I think he already answered you. cleanhippie Feb 2012 #45
Atheism has no message, so there is nothing to poison. Gore1FL Feb 2012 #46
Gotcha, the only side at fault is the religious one, so much for cooperation to Leontius Feb 2012 #47
The side that is at fault Gore1FL Feb 2012 #48
No the problem is you don't even understand the question I am asking or Leontius Feb 2012 #50
Removing it from society? If you mean the part where it is crammed down our throats, then yes. Gore1FL Feb 2012 #54
If this is the case, then please explain to me why so many atheists and agnostics hang out in the cbayer Feb 2012 #49
What I find troubling is they can't even seem to admit that those who Leontius Feb 2012 #51
Once identified as having no interest in forming an alliance of any kind, best to just stop engaging cbayer Feb 2012 #52
True enough, but I still hope that reason will prevail from one side or the other. Leontius Feb 2012 #56
If that logic would extend to the spreading of one's religion Gore1FL Feb 2012 #58
I am not even talking to you about specific religious issues or beliefs Gore1FL Feb 2012 #61
I came to this thread Gore1FL Feb 2012 #57
Fair enough. I have often ended up in groups because I picked something off the latest page cbayer Feb 2012 #60
Oh, for pity's sake! How FREAKING many times does this have to be explained? skepticscott Feb 2012 #59
You've had this explained to you no less than 3 times here on DU3. darkstar3 Feb 2012 #62
Do you believe that jesus was the son of god, died for your sins, and was resurrected? cleanhippie Feb 2012 #34
Well, ironically the fundies will say skepticscott Feb 2012 #27
The difference, of course, Gore1FL Feb 2012 #32
No, the government should never be in a position to favor one religion over another... Humanist_Activist Feb 2012 #16
Great article LeftishBrit Feb 2012 #19
Couldn't agree more and stress that this is a two way street. cbayer Feb 2012 #21
I think everyone can agree. Are there any instances when non-believers have not cleanhippie Feb 2012 #28
........ Angry Dragon Feb 2012 #24
To fling shit against the wall and stir the pot? cleanhippie Feb 2012 #26
Ah, come on AD. Thats my opinion Feb 2012 #38
Thats my opinion Angry Dragon Feb 2012 #39
He can't help it. Persecution complex and all... cleanhippie Feb 2012 #40
Oh, I do not worry about Thats my opinion Angry Dragon Feb 2012 #41
And if you go to post #31 skepticscott Feb 2012 #44
So I have copied and now paste exactly what you said. Thats my opinion Feb 2012 #53
Did they teach reading comprehension in bible school? skepticscott Feb 2012 #55
I'll just let your diredt quote stand as it is. Thats my opinion Feb 2012 #63
So you have chosen his option #3. darkstar3 Feb 2012 #65
I bet myself skepticscott Feb 2012 #66
I'll let your skepticscott Feb 2012 #67
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