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(17,671 posts)
22. What would those tools be
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 02:28 PM
Jun 2014

and how would the accused prove he employed them?

Like I said, I can understand the motivation and the need for this effort. Yes, rape at colleges and universities are a problem. Yes, it happens all too often. But we don't get to use generalized statistics to prosecute individual cases. You don't get to take away people's rights in specific cases because lots of other people are doing bad things. That's why we have courts, the rule of law and the rules of evidence. The alternative is vigilante justice and mob rule.

"The indemnity against disciplinary action because the assaulted student was breaking the school's drinking policy is a no-brainer. It takes away one of the coercive means used currently by some administrators to dissuade formal reporting of sexual assault."

Yes, that's exactly the point. By creating the impossibility of irresponsible behavior by the accuser the weight of disciplinary action will fall all the more easily on the accused who is offered no means to refute the charge. It's a perfect kangaroo court.

If you're concerned with adjusting the behavior of college students pushing everyone around a drunk into a parental role is the wrong way to go about it. Especially when the person who has to shoulder those responsibilities is little more than a child himself.

"You seem more concerned about the chance of false reporting than of the acknowledged large problem of unreported sexual assaults and improperly investigated complaints."

This is an interesting sentence since I took the time to address the issue already. You can allude to ideological heresy all you like, but in the end you have not provided any way for the accused to make an affirmative defense. Nor does the law, and the authors of it should know better. Administrators aren't engaged in some sort of conspiracy to conceal rape statistics out of misogynistic motives, although their motives might be financial. They are on the horns of a dilemma whereby the parents of Mary may sue them for not keeping her safe while at the same time the parents of Johnny may sue them for false accusations and defamation of character. And it's all because there is insufficient evidence either way.

There is nothing wrong with teaching kids right social and moral behavior. Most colleges and universities have courses in ethics, philosophy, sociology, and religious studies. But like I said, partisans on both the left and the right attempt to rebrand basic human ideals for their own ideological ends, and that always ends badly. When the law is designed to defend ideology rather than justice horrible injustices result. This law is a fine example of that.

But maybe I'm wrong. The solution is an affirmative defense for the accused. I have already asked for one but I haven't seen one yet. I realize this is a protected group so I'm not going to crowd you for it any more. Have a nice day.

"prove they had agreed to have sex" rrneck Jun 2014 #1
It involves using words. Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #2
Yes, that's certainly appropriate. rrneck Jun 2014 #6
Simply having such a policy will change the dynamic in a meaningful way Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #7
In the late eighties rrneck Jun 2014 #9
This would be backed by law Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #10
Great. If it's backed by law then the rules of evidence will apply. rrneck Jun 2014 #11
I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not qualified to answer that evidence question. Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #13
As I recall rrneck Jun 2014 #14
Keep in mind that SB967 is a bill directed at the institutions and their responsibilities Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #15
Well, lets have a look at the law in question rrneck Jun 2014 #18
The law places the burden on institutions to provide the tools to students Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #20
What would those tools be rrneck Jun 2014 #22
Okay, one final time: the law is reactive. Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #23
Yes, I am aware of my use of pronouns. rrneck Jun 2014 #24
Ah, now I remember... rrneck Jun 2014 #19
Ah, not surprising. That is a very progressive school Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #21
I like the idea of there needing to be an explicit Squinch Jun 2014 #3
The rapist could say that but I think the point spooky3 Jun 2014 #4
yeah this is a problem, alp227 Jun 2014 #12
Gormy, could you give a link? This is interesting, but I'm not clear on what the law entails. Squinch Jun 2014 #5
Oops! Thanks for pointing that out. Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #16
FYI: The current version of SB967 Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #17
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