Israel/Palestine

shira

(30,109 posts)

66. You don't get the part about 2 separate states, do you?

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 08:23 AM

Mar 2014

Last edited Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:02 PM - Edit history (1)

While it would be nice for both to be modern liberal western democracies with an open borders policy, the point to 2 separate states is to grant sovereignty and rule to each set of people in their own land, under their own rules and laws. You are against that because you don't recognize the legitimacy of Israel.

If Israel were to become majority Arab or majority Chinese, American, French....then the Jews wouldn't control their destiny in their own homeland any longer. It would cease representing their needs. Imagine that overnight, the new non-Jewish majority (doesn't matter if it's Arab, French, Chinese, or American) rules against the law of return. Jewish refugees would then be fucked. Granting sanctuary to Jews in their historic homeland was the point of Israel from the start & that would be gone. Apparently you'd be for this.

The reason I brought up 1 billion chinese taking over Japan or the USA is obvious. Suppose that once in power, they radically change the laws, constitution, and culture. Why would any sovereign entity volunteer to allow that to happen? Why should Israel allow for any non-Jewish entity to take over and change pretty much everything there, possibly putting Jews back in danger again - into the same helpless situation they were in during WW2?

The problem works both ways. 5-6 million Jews could take residence in Judea/Samaria and then democratically take over, changing the laws, constitution, and culture their way - against the will of the Palestinian people. 2 separate states prevents such a scenario from happening.

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Arab League rejects Israel as Jewish homeland [View all] bemildred Mar 2014 OP

Well, there's a difference between "Jewish State" and "Jewish homeland" Scootaloo Mar 2014 #1

You & the Palestinians are rejecting peace when you all reject a Jewish State/Homeland... shira Mar 2014 #2

One question, Shira, before further response... Scootaloo Mar 2014 #5

From Einat Wilf... shira Mar 2014 #6

Lot's of sticky sweet goo to mask the poison pill azurnoir Mar 2014 #8

What poison pill? Because there's no fantasy of full RoR or a binational Israel? shira Mar 2014 #10

I think the recognition of Israel as a Jewish State may well be a poison pill for every non-Jew azurnoir Mar 2014 #12

What's going to happen to every non-Jew in Israel with this recognition statement? shira Mar 2014 #14

ah so Netanyahu has agreed to monetary compensation or the Clinton parameters? Do tell please azurnoir Mar 2014 #32

Again, do tell what will happen to every non-Jew in Israel once there is recognition.... shira Mar 2014 #37

ah, okay Scootaloo Mar 2014 #9

Huh? That statement of purpose is exactly what recognition of 2 states for 2 people is about.... shira Mar 2014 #11

If the rights are equal, why are only Arabs being driven out of their homes? Scootaloo Mar 2014 #13

You're in favor of more war, I get it. That's what right-of-return would all but guarantee... shira Mar 2014 #15

Shira, the list of things you "get" is very short, and my stance isn't on it Scootaloo Mar 2014 #50

There you go again with Jewish Supremacism claims. shira Mar 2014 #53

Well, that's certainly what it's looking like, Shira. Scootaloo Mar 2014 #54

Well gee, with your open borders policy there's nothing stopping 1 billion chinese.... shira Mar 2014 #57

Wilf's claim - and yours - is "equal right." Scootaloo Mar 2014 #61

You don't get the part about 2 separate states, do you? shira Mar 2014 #66

You don't understand the "equal right" part, very clearly Scootaloo Mar 2014 #75

Uhhhhhh..... shira Mar 2014 #76

So what's your plan for peace b/w Jews and Palestinians since you oppose 2 states? shira Mar 2014 #18

I don't oppose two states. Nor do I oppose one state. Or thirty-five. Scootaloo Mar 2014 #52

Two states could happen. The Palestinians don't want that, or peace... shira Mar 2014 #56

Well, there you go, lying about me again Scootaloo Mar 2014 #60

It's no lie. You should be loud and clear about your views, and proud of them if they're honorable shira Mar 2014 #67

There you go fantasizing about race war again n/t Scootaloo Mar 2014 #74

Are they? Shaktimaan Mar 2014 #25

That is rich coming from countries that self identify as Islamic states. nt hack89 Mar 2014 #3

But you see that's the point they "self identify" Israel is free to do that azurnoir Mar 2014 #33

And what is the harm in it? Nt hack89 Mar 2014 #35

No harm in Israel self identifying as the Jewish State n/t azurnoir Mar 2014 #44

You're misrepresenting the PA's rejection of a Jewish homeland and you know it. shira Mar 2014 #51

A "state" is a legal entity. A "homeland" is not Scootaloo Mar 2014 #55

Israel is demanding that once there's a deal, all Palestinian claims to Israel end. shira Mar 2014 #58

if you're done twitching and frothing? Scootaloo Mar 2014 #63

From 2011: Pal. Ambassador in Lebanon says Pal. state doesn't mean end of conflict.... shira Mar 2014 #64

Abbas must be a slow learner WRT end of conflict b/c here's Abbas in Aug 2013 shira Mar 2014 #72

Wow , what a huge major distinction . King_David Mar 2014 #41

and Israel can register at the UN as the same if it wants n/t azurnoir Mar 2014 #45

Time to pay up, Netanyahu. n/t Jefferson23 Mar 2014 #4

Interesting to what happens the next prisoner release is slated for Saturday azurnoir Mar 2014 #7

Hopefully murderers are not in the release package. King_David Mar 2014 #16

well Israel didn't seem to mind Yitzhak Shamir or Menachim Begin or Yitzhak Rabin azurnoir Mar 2014 #17

Don't be ridiculous. How many of these current prisoners truly regret what they did? shira Mar 2014 #20

Did any of those mentioned regret their actions while the British still occupied Palestine? azurnoir Mar 2014 #22

You didn't answer. And the 3 leaders you mentioned did not get off on or celebrate.... shira Mar 2014 #24

sorry but your comparing what a sitting POTUS did or does as leader of a sovereign country azurnoir Mar 2014 #26

You're comparing unrepentant terrorists in favor of murdering more innocents.... shira Mar 2014 #38

good lord shira .... Israeli Mar 2014 #34

Israel doesn't celebrate, praise, honor, & reward the sadistic murdering of innocents. shira Mar 2014 #36

Does to .... Israeli Mar 2014 #40

Seriously, the Qibya 'massacre'? That's not a valid comparison to Palestinian terror. shira Mar 2014 #42

That really makes sense to you? Shaktimaan Mar 2014 #28

Rabin was a member of Palmach which for a time was considered a terrorist organazation azurnoir Mar 2014 #29

Yeah? Shaktimaan Mar 2014 #30

Israel agreed to the prisoner release are you justifying the possible reniging of that agreement? azurnoir Mar 2014 #31

Prisoners get released when there's progress in the negotiations. That's the deal... shira Mar 2014 #39

No thanks the the buzz phrase for us should Israel refuse to stick to it's agreement azurnoir Mar 2014 #43

And here you are defending the PA in its refusal to negotiate an end of conflict. How nice. n/t shira Mar 2014 #46

that could very easily be turned around Israel won't negotiate for "end of conflict" because azurnoir Mar 2014 #47

Well gee Az...all the PA has to say is that once they get X,Y, & Z, that ends the conflict. shira Mar 2014 #48

so Israel will give up East Jerusalem or remove all settlers or remove all IDF from the WB azurnoir Mar 2014 #68

You're for peace later, not peace now. It's why u defend the PA rejecting.... shira Mar 2014 #70

shira your response has nothing to do with your previous comment or my reply nada nothing zero azurnoir Mar 2014 #77

Abbas in Aug 2013, promising an end of conflict... shira Mar 2014 #73

and nothing has changed azurnoir Mar 2014 #78

With Abbas rejecting an end-of-conflict resolution, what's the point of a prisoner release? shira Mar 2014 #19

Abbas in reality isn't bowing to Netanyahu's demands but I'll give ya credit for spin azurnoir Mar 2014 #21

So negotiating for an end-of-conflict is a bad demand? shira Mar 2014 #23

you seem to be the one against the talks continuing azurnoir Mar 2014 #27

Huh? What's the point of continued "peace" talks if the result isn't peace? shira Mar 2014 #49

a rehash of "we have no partner for peace" azurnoir Mar 2014 #69

Peace Later? That's what you're pushing. Pal. state 1st, then peace later. shira Mar 2014 #71

As I said, it's amazing to see how right-wingers glom onto framing like that. Scootaloo Mar 2014 #62

See #59 below. n/t shira Mar 2014 #65

From 2011: Pal. Ambassador in Lebanon says Pal. state doesn't mean end of conflict.... shira Mar 2014 #59