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Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
31. He recognizes Israel's right to exist, and has been willing to negotiate.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 10:35 PM
Jan 2013

While the man is no saint, he's far more moderate than anybody within Hamas.

You can't seriously suggest that the Israeli government shouldn't negotiate with ANYBODY in any of the current Palestinian leadership groups.

They tried that all through the 1980's...in case you've forgotten, refusing to accept the existing Palestinian leadership as a legitimate negotiating partner then had NO POSITIVE RESULTS AT ALL. It gained Israel nothing. It cost not only thousands of Palestinian lives, but many, many Israeli lives as well.

And no alternative leadership EVER emerged that would ever have accepted what Israel was demanding at the time...a complete surrender of the right to self-determination(or settling for Begin's proposal for Tibetan-style autonomy, which was exactly the same thing).

I'd have preferred someone like Hanan Ashrawi to be leading the Palestinian side...but even SHE would have insisted on at least partial RoR, and East Jerusalem, and the end of the settlements. Neither she, nor anyone else who could ever have emerged as a possible Palestinian leader, would ever have accepted Likudnik terms for the end of the conflict.

And even if someone like her had emerged, Israel was STILL going to have to get buy-in from the armed resistance factions within the Palestine for any peace agreement to be worth the price of the paper it was printed on...so the PLO then(and Hamas now, with its horrible flaws)would have to be brought into it in some way. It was never possible to militarily crush them and have that be the end of it.

So, again, what was, or is, the alternative to negotiations involving the groups with the weapons? What else could ever have worked or could ever work in the future?

"70 books I still haven't published" Scootaloo Jan 2013 #1
You'd think it might occur to him to start a PA publishing house Ken Burch Jan 2013 #14
Hasn't EVERYONE written vampire fiction, though? Scootaloo Jan 2013 #16
Well, not St. Paul... Ken Burch Jan 2013 #21
Report: Abbas’ Holocaust-Denial Dissertation Widely-Taught in PA, zellie Jan 2013 #2
Stop. We need to keep pretending he's moderate, peace is possible.... shira Jan 2013 #4
Abbas a moderate? Laughable. zellie Jan 2013 #11
Abbas is always portrayed as moderate. Bibi an extreme rightwing hawk.... shira Jan 2013 #13
Abbas isn't building illegal settlements in Israel. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #17
No, he's just pro-terror vs. innocents. That's all... shira Jan 2013 #23
Netanyahu made his "support" of a two-state solution meaningless Ken Burch Jan 2013 #26
The point is Abbas is in no way moderate. You can't defend that label. shira Jan 2013 #28
He recognizes Israel's right to exist, and has been willing to negotiate. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #31
He signed a piece of paper. So what? And being more moderate than Hamas.... shira Jan 2013 #32
The thing is, Abbas is the best possible partner you're going to get...and he has to be part of it. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #34
You're assuming settlements and borders are the main sticking points.... shira Jan 2013 #35
Those are massively important things to ALL Palestnians...why would they NOT be? Ken Burch Jan 2013 #36
"Israel could offer all YOU are demanding..." R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #37
What's the ALTERNATIVE to negotiations with the PA? Ken Burch Jan 2013 #15
Why pretend Abbas wants a peace deal? n/t shira Jan 2013 #24
Perhaps Abbas and Naftali Bennett can go on a comedy tour together. R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #3
is bennett the leader of Israel? Mosby Jan 2013 #5
Don't you just love all the morally equivalent FAILS we see here all the time? shira Jan 2013 #6
Tell us again how Israel has a right to the West bank, my friend. R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #8
I won't help you derail this thread. Why don't u stick to the topic rather than deflect to Bennett? shira Jan 2013 #9
Bennett is WORSE than Abbas. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #19
Really? Abbas just told 150,000 Syrian Palestinians it's better.... shira Jan 2013 #25
Yes. Bennett supports making Palestine Arabrein. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #38
"None of the Palestinian leaders would be absolutely rigig on full physical RoR" shira Jan 2013 #39
The problem is, you're demanding that they give up ANY RoR as a precondition. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #40
"I won't help you derail this thread." R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #27
Abbas just said Syrian Palestinians are better off dead than renouncing RoR.... shira Jan 2013 #29
Shira, I know that it is painfully dificult for you. R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #33
He may be someday. R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #7
Israelis are provoking Muslims? Do tell... shira Jan 2013 #10
Answer: They're Jews. nt. zellie Jan 2013 #12
trick question..."Israelis" couldn't provoke anybody in 1929... Ken Burch Jan 2013 #20
I'm sorry... Shaktimaan Feb 2013 #41
In Segev's "One Palestine, Complete" Ken Burch Feb 2013 #42
No there isn't oberliner Feb 2013 #43
I'll reread, but was sure I'd read of that. n/t. Ken Burch Feb 2013 #46
If you find what you mean, tell me the page oberliner Feb 2013 #49
The Mufti was appointed by the British Scootaloo Jan 2013 #22
In fact, the Mufti LOST badly in the advisory ballot of Palestinians as to who should get the job Ken Burch Feb 2013 #47
Are you answering your own question? If you wish to converse with yourself R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #30
Bennett will probably be in the next Cabinet...possibly as foreign minister. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #18
No he won't oberliner Feb 2013 #44
He was proposing to force the Arabs out of Palestine. Ken Burch Feb 2013 #45
No he wasn't oberliner Feb 2013 #48
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