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Israel/Palestine
In reply to the discussion: Surplus Jews [View all]kayecy
(1,417 posts)180. Sorry, that is not how it will have to work.......
So, here's how it will have to work. I am fully willing to admit when I am incorrect about any of these facts we're discussing. If you can show me that the Zionist leadership really did openly declare their plans to follow the strategy you outlined in these posts, then I will obviously agree with you.Sorry, that is not how it will have to work...Any prime source documents will be over 100years old now and not available to either of us, so you will just have to decide on the basis of what historians and non-Arab biased WEB sites have to say on the matter.......However, just for fun I dug out the following references for you to read:
Reference 13: Theodor Herzl wrote in his diary (September 1, 1897): Were I to sum up the Basel Congress in a word - which I shall guard against pronouncing publicly - it would be this: At Basel I founded the Jewish State. .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Zionist_Congress#Basel_Declaration
Reference 14: On the same day, Samuel developed the Zionist position more fully in a conversation with the Foreign Secretary, Sir Edward Grey. He spoke of Zionist aspirations for the establishment in Palestine of a Jewish state,
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p389_John.html
Reference 15: However, in private, many British officials agreed with the interpretation of the Zionists that a state would be established when a Jewish majority was achieved.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
Reference 16: The declared goals of Revisionist ideology included relentless pressure on Great Britain, including petitions and mass demonstrations, for Jewish statehood on both banks of the Jordan River; a Jewish majority in Palestinehttp://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/Revisionist_Zionism.html
Reference 17: It was not their idea that a Jewish State should be set up immediately by the Peace Treaty without reference to the wishes of the majority of the inhabitants. On the other hand, it was contemplated that when the time arrived for according representative institutions to Palestine, if the Jews had meanwhile responded to the opportunity afforded them by the idea of a National Home and had become a definite majority of the inhabitants, then Palestine would thus become a Jewish Commonwealth.
http://www.mideastweb.org/mebalfour.htm
Reference 18: The Supreme Council wanted to know if such a nationality would involve eventual statehood?....Weizmann told them: Later on, when the Jews formed the large majority, they would be ripe to establish such a Government as would answer to the state of the development of the country and
to their ideals. http://www.jidaily.com/Kabu
Reference 19: the Jews, whom we are pledged to introduce into Palestine and who take it for granted.that the local population will be cleared out to suit their convenience.
http://www.jidaily.com/Kabu
I suggest the intentions of the early Zionists were absolutely clear to both the British government and the indigenous Palestinians.....If there remains any doubt in your mind, you can perhaps tell me what you think the early Zionists were planning when they approached the Ottomans, Russia and eventually Britain?......Was it just to have an area in Palestine where they were still in a minority and therefore subject to persecution?......Or was it to achieve a majority by mass immigration and then demand independence as a sovereign Jewish state?
....................
You have still not yet explained why Jewish immigration was immoral.
You seem to think that its immoral for the Jews to try and immigrate and alter the political demographics. Can you say why?
Yet when the Jews work towards this same goal just without the war crimes, apartheid, etc., you deem it unethical. Can you explain why?
Why repeat the same question?....... When you have accepted that the Zionists did plan to achieve a majority in Palestine and disenfranchise the locals, all will become clear......So far, unlike most Zionists, you have not accepted that basic premise so I am having to go back to basics for you.
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I don't think I've ever seen anyone on this board arguing against Israel's "right to exist".
Crunchy Frog
Feb 2012
#2
Also plastic buckets and batteries for your flashlights, those are very important
shaayecanaan
Jun 2012
#20
You think a principal belief of judaism is a joke?........Sick I call it......n/t
kayecy
Jun 2012
#32
As much right as any other ethnic group living in an area, territory or region......
kayecy
Jun 2012
#42
Were Palestinian rights to self-determination less than other peoples?..................
kayecy
Jun 2012
#53
Kayecy, the Jews/Zionists conducted their negotiations and diplomacy w/ both the Turks and Brits...
shira
Jun 2012
#61
Shira...Please leave Bradlad and Holdencaufield to answer for themselves on this thread........n/t
kayecy
Jun 2012
#64
Israel did recognize and accept the citizenship and equal rights of their Arab population in 1948.
Fozzledick
Jun 2012
#25
so all countries discriminate against minorities so that makes it ok for Israel too? got it
azurnoir
Jun 2012
#29
So Kayecy, you believe where there's discrimination there are no equal rights? Does that apply...
shira
Jun 2012
#60
How can you possibly claim that it was a moral way to establish a new nation?....
kayecy
Jun 2012
#63
On the contrary, Zionists most certainly do, and you have just proved my point............
kayecy
Jun 2012
#71
Kayecy, you're trying to excuse Palestinians for the same evil that the rest of the world...
shira
Jun 2012
#76
OMG. Are you seriously saying Palestinians could have just up and moved somewhere else??
Violet_Crumble
Jun 2012
#80
And because of that it shouldn't be suggested for it to be done to any other people...
Violet_Crumble
Jun 2012
#101
It's pretty pointless trying to deny what you said. It's right there in yr post...
Violet_Crumble
Jun 2012
#100
I always find these multilayer attacks on posters usually ProPalestinian interesting
azurnoir
Jun 2012
#126
Your “collaboration” do not intend to declare UDI, or seize sovereign control of Fort Green.....
kayecy
Jun 2012
#138
How could Palestinians have a right to reject immigration < 1948 when the Brits...
shira
Jun 2012
#151
Kayecy, you're still blaming the Jews for negotiating with the only established powers of that time
shira
Jun 2012
#177
Got it thank you...I wonder which figure is correct...Approx 2,000 or 1,303....n/t
kayecy
Jun 2012
#131
What language did the "indigenous" Palestinmian Jews speak in normal everyday conversation
azurnoir
Jun 2012
#89
neither Meir or Ben-Gurion were born in Ottoman Palestine it was Russia and Poland
azurnoir
Jun 2012
#93
Wrong. UNRWA doesn't define who's a Palestinian. It defines who's a refugee...
Violet_Crumble
Jun 2012
#102
"...they must have been using a common language whatever their ancestery..."
holdencaufield
Jun 2012
#144
so what you are asking us to believe here is that Jews in Palestine prior to the 3rd aliyah
azurnoir
Jun 2012
#153
As an American I hardly find people speaking multiple languages "fantastical' or mythical
azurnoir
Jun 2012
#156
so I take it you can not really refute this can you oh you can go on and on about
azurnoir
Jun 2012
#158
wrong about what that the Jews of Palestine prior to the very late 19th century were ethnically Arab
azurnoir
Jun 2012
#162
And no one should end up at the mercy of a world where no one wants them, agreed.
Ken Burch
Jun 2012
#82
Israel was achieved without oppressing other people. Their enemies shouldn't have...
shira
Jun 2012
#91
Yeah, an end to occupation is an end to occupation. Negotiate further for more, stop stalling...
shira
Jun 2012
#111
Stalling nope however a viable Palestinian state is the desired end to the occupation
azurnoir
Jun 2012
#121
Team Palestine, especially here @ DU, has constantly called for Israel to end the occupation...
shira
Jun 2012
#122
Not for or against an opinion could only be given after what Israel is offering is seen
azurnoir
Jun 2012
#123
What's being offered? A unilateral withdrawal. There are no demands of the Palestinians. n/t
shira
Jun 2012
#127