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progree

(10,992 posts)
26. Simulation: The mortgage holders and other fixed rate debt holders benefit in the short run,
Wed Jan 12, 2022, 01:38 AM
Jan 2022

Last edited Thu Jan 13, 2022, 12:30 AM - Edit history (1)

but not in the long run, unless incomes actually keep up with inflation which in the 70's and 80's they didn't.

Looking at real (meaning inflation-adjusted) wages of production and non-supervisory workers, they peaked in 1973, just as inflation was heating up. http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0500000032

"64% of Americans have mortgages and millions more with other loans."

Not sure where that statistic comes from -- I own a home and haven't had a mortgage for years. For a couple decades before that, it was rather small compared to my income.

Some of these have adjustable rate mortgages as their main mortgage. And then there are home equity loans. Google search says most home equity lines of credit (HELOC) are variable rate.

Then there is the black home ownership rate: 44%
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOAAAHORUSQ156N

And a certain percent of them have adjustable rate mortgages, some have insignificant mortgages, some have large adjustable rate home equity loans. And credit card debt whose interest rates will soar.

It's not a demographic we can afford to blow off, particularly considering the woeful polling on Hispanics lately (who, in 2020 had a 48-49% home ownership rate).

And we don't want to blow off the demographic that greatly outvotes the others and will be disproportionately hurt - seniors and near-seniors. Who will see their fixed income investments, annuities, and pensions erode in purchasing power. Equities too given the flat performance (very negative on an inflation adjusted basis) in the 1968-1982 high inflation period.

Anyway if income doesn't keep up with prices, eventually the benefit of the reduced mortgage as percent of income in the high inflation scenario becomes less and less of a help, while the fact that other expenses are rising faster than income begin to dominate and become larger than the cumulative benefit in the early years of mortgage burden reduction. As I found in my Excel spreadsheet simulations, when I set income inflation rate to less than the price inflation rate.

And while, temporarily, people with significant old fixed-rate debt will benefit, what about new people coming along that can't afford the skyrocketing mortgages and get into that first home?

There are some who think all this is a big wealth transfer from the wealthy bankers to the middle class homeowners. No, the market in interest rates moves so that interest rates on loans generally exceed the inflation rate. That's an issue for new entrants into the housing market, getting student loans, you name it.

Politically this is going to be an extremely hard sell. Inflation wasn't popular in the 1970's and 1980's and it isn't now. That disproportionately white current homeowners will benefit for awhile is a great way to lose pretty much everybody.

I'm also concerned that once the inflation-genie is out of the bottle, it is very hard to control, short of crashing the economy like Paul Volcker (a Carter appointee) did.

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"I doubt very many people who should have 40% have much invested that way." (meaning in fixed income assets like bonds or bond funds).

I don't doubt it myself.

Target date funds are very popular in 401k's where they follow those asset allocation formulas.

The U.S. equity market is $53.4 Trillion 12/31/21 https://siblisresearch.com/data/us-stock-market-value/

"As of 2021, the size of the bond market (total debt outstanding) is estimated to be at ... $46 trillion for the US market, according to Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association (SIFMA). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_market

So they are pretty close to the same size.

And beyond bonds, there are other fixed income investments like CD's, savings accounts, annuities, that people have.

Yes, it is terrible, I lived thru the 70's, and early 80s progree Jan 2022 #1
Inflation adjusted Median household income is up in 2021 Cicada Jan 2022 #4
OK you got me on the median household income up in 2021 vs. 2020 - thanks to many more progree Jan 2022 #7
Inflation is complicated in practice. unblock Jan 2022 #2
During the year 2021, no lag, median household income rose more than 9%, inflation plus 3 Cicada Jan 2022 #6
... progree Jan 2022 #9
Progee 64% of Americans have a mortgage Cicada Jan 2022 #15
Simulation: The mortgage holders and other fixed rate debt holders benefit in the short run, progree Jan 2022 #26
in the long-run, it's mostly a transfer of wealth from savers to borrowers unblock Jan 2022 #13
Median households in 2021 had 9% income gain, bigger than 6% inflation Cicada Jan 2022 #16
Where are you seeing that income stat? unblock Jan 2022 #17
Here is my source for income outpacing inflation Cicada Jan 2022 #18
There's a lot of good news in the economy especially for the working poor unblock Jan 2022 #22
A lot of us here are on fixed incomes left-of-center2012 Jan 2022 #3
Those getting social security and govt retirement get pay hikes equal to inflation Cicada Jan 2022 #5
Sustained inflation over a long period of time certainly helps Tomconroy Jan 2022 #8
If you believe that the official inflation adjustment applies exactly to your own expenses, it does MichMan Jan 2022 #11
social security adjustments both lag and underadjust for consumer inflation unblock Jan 2022 #14
I agree social security should use a better cola adjustment Cicada Jan 2022 #20
Median household income up 9%? Throck Jan 2022 #10
9% is household income, more spouses got jobs, less part time work Cicada Jan 2022 #21
Inflation affects retired people on a fixed income more than most. Sure we get a COLA raise doc03 Jan 2022 #12
Several hours after my post here CNN stole my story Cicada Jan 2022 #19
When you pay debt you're only funding the billionaires banks. Throck Jan 2022 #23
We need to reduce housing costs Cicada Jan 2022 #24
High inflation increases housing costs MichMan Jan 2022 #25
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