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joshcryer

(62,276 posts)

71. I'm not the one cheering for secession.

Fri Feb 28, 2014, 06:26 PM

Feb 2014

I think the historical revisionism is quaint though.

People one normally would associate with the left are going all out to defend a Czarist!

If someone is offended because symbols of totalitarianism are toppled then I have no sympathy.

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103 replies

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Highlight:

Ukrainian city demolishes monument to Russian general who beat Napoleon. [View all] another_liberal Feb 2014 OP

"Scorched Earth" Kutuzov was a "geniune hero"? joshcryer Feb 2014 #1

Your view of history is rather slanted, to say the least! another_liberal Feb 2014 #2

Wow, you are nothing if not flexible... JackRiddler Feb 2014 #3

Scortch Earth was NOT the Russian Policy Against Napoleon, he did that himself.... happyslug Feb 2014 #15

Actually I think you are both right.. EX500rider Feb 2014 #28

This is why DU is so much fun--ya learn something new every day! nt MADem Feb 2014 #79

The Russian campaign is even used as a example on the "Scorched earth" wikki.. EX500rider Feb 2014 #29

I fail to see how War Communism was any different. joshcryer Feb 2014 #49

You're busy helping to stir the ancient bullshit on all fronts, I see. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #69

I'm not the one cheering for secession. joshcryer Feb 2014 #71

You are the one supporting secession, yes. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #72

Russia is the one doing that I'm afraid. joshcryer Feb 2014 #73

Ha, "personal" JackRiddler Feb 2014 #75

Not a win if Russia succeeds in splitting the country up. joshcryer Feb 2014 #77

Statues, not statutes. JackRiddler Mar 2014 #91

I saw nothing unconstitutional. joshcryer Mar 2014 #92

"If someone is offended because symbols of totalitarianism are toppled then I have no sympathy." EX500rider Mar 2014 #93

Thank you! Especially the factoid about the wheat shipments. aquart Mar 2014 #102

Those wheat shipments lead to other things. happyslug Mar 2014 #103

They have a sense of history, of course. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #4

That is some very good writing on your part, my friend. another_liberal Feb 2014 #5

Thank you. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #8

Perhaps they do so due to religious affiliation? another_liberal Feb 2014 #11

Not such a big factor. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #14

"Western Ukraine is largely Greek Catholic (which isn't very much Catholic but recognizes the Pope)" another_liberal Feb 2014 #17

The initials don't have that meaning. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #20

I see. another_liberal Feb 2014 #21

Ukrainian (Greek) Catholics are Catholic. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #24

Except it's not their country's history. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #23

Napoleon didn't pass through that place? JackRiddler Feb 2014 #25

You might want to brush up on your history. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #27

You don't have the chops for this pedantry JackRiddler Feb 2014 #57

Napoleon was trying to restablish Poland muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #62

It's not their country's history? Huh?!!!! rdharma Feb 2014 #35

How is a Russian General part of Ukrainian history? n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #38

Many Seem Unaware, Sir, Czarist Russia, Like Soviet Russia, Was An Empire The Magistrate Feb 2014 #39

But not this part of present-day Ukraine muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #40

True, Sir The Magistrate Feb 2014 #42

+1 ... Guess they don't want to be "happy serfs" to a modern day tsar, either..? nt MADem Feb 2014 #80

Yeah, one more reason they aren't fond of Russians. n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #41

You mean, besides the half of them who are Russians? JackRiddler Feb 2014 #76

Or is it the 17% or so? n/t EX500rider Mar 2014 #94

Languages of the Ukraine: JackRiddler Mar 2014 #95

You mean "Ruthenian" history? Right? rdharma Feb 2014 #44

Turns out many smaller members of Empires weren't fond of the experience. EX500rider Feb 2014 #46

They were known as Ruthenians until the early 1900s. rdharma Feb 2014 #50

Since when does "Ukraine" get a monopoly? JackRiddler Feb 2014 #58

"Half the people there are Russian"...um, no, they aren't Spider Jerusalem Feb 2014 #74

No. It's Russia's history. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #52

Kind of like British Generals are not part of American colonial history, eh? nt rdharma Feb 2014 #55

Washington of course was a British general. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #59

Along with Col. Washington..... there were a lot of other British officers..... rdharma Feb 2014 #60

Right, sorry: Colonel, of course. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #67

Washington was a key figure in American history. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #64

He was British because they controlled the colonies. He wasn't born in London, he was born in VA. nt MADem Feb 2014 #81

That analogy would only work if.... Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #63

Brody wasn't part of Ukraine until the end of WW2 muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #6

I wonder why then Svoboda felt a need to desecrate the monument . . . another_liberal Feb 2014 #7

Strange to call this 'desecration' muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #9

You are . . . another_liberal Feb 2014 #10

Stop with all that common sense!!! EX500rider Feb 2014 #13

I'd say you've summed up the actual situation brilliantly. Very well done! nt MADem Feb 2014 #83

They didn't "desecrate" it. They removed it with a crane. MADem Feb 2014 #82

Brody, eh? rdharma Feb 2014 #36

For comparison: hedgehog Feb 2014 #12

They both triumphed over Napoleon. another_liberal Feb 2014 #19

"their nation." funny, I thought Ukraine not Russia was their nation geek tragedy Feb 2014 #16

I was, of course, referencing "Svoboda." They are totally Ukrainian. another_liberal Feb 2014 #18

Like it or not, Russification is a subject that is going to upset a lot of people. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #22

"Ukrainians" JackRiddler Feb 2014 #26

I know you want to get all psuedo-philosophical and stuff.... Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #66

I guess I just have a greater sense of gratitude to men like Kutuzov. another_liberal Feb 2014 #31

Gen. Kutuzov never fought any battles on Ukrainian soil? Are you kidding? rdharma Feb 2014 #47

He was a lieutenant colonel then. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #54

That foot in your mouth uncomfortable? rdharma Feb 2014 #56

Um, no. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #65

Forget it, "Ukrainian" is a transcendent entity. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #70

It's Ukrainian, not "Ukrainian", you nitwit. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #90

The crazy thing is that anyone believes... JackRiddler Feb 2014 #68

Why wouldn't the Ukrainians love a statue of a Russian General? EX500rider Feb 2014 #30

I don't really care whether they love it not . . . another_liberal Feb 2014 #32

Sure, sure, who doesn't respect their former genocidal overlords... EX500rider Feb 2014 #33

Kutuzov? another_liberal Feb 2014 #34

"How is he responsible for crimes committed by leaders of the the Soviet Union?" EX500rider Feb 2014 #37

Actually the Israeli Philharmonic has played Wagner . . . another_liberal Feb 2014 #43

After not playing it for 70 years. n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #45

Some turtles live twice that long. another_liberal Feb 2014 #48

Where did i say I hate Russian's? Oh that's right, nowhere. EX500rider Feb 2014 #51

No one is expecting you to be a fan . . . another_liberal Feb 2014 #53

"Letting ancient animosities die a natural death is more to the point." EX500rider Feb 2014 #61

All true. another_liberal Feb 2014 #86

Well there we go. JackRiddler Mar 2014 #96

You can make up stuff all you want... EX500rider Mar 2014 #97

You know what else is funny? JackRiddler Mar 2014 #98

Yep A lot of them have good reason to not be fond of Germans too. n/t EX500rider Mar 2014 #99

Good grief. That post takes not just the cake, but the entire dessert tray. MADem Feb 2014 #84

I find the framing of the article interesting. Who put the statue up, I wonder? MADem Feb 2014 #78

I tried to find out when that monument was constructed, another_liberal Feb 2014 #85

I looked at the video of the "destruction" of the statue, and there's plainly some "framing" going MADem Feb 2014 #87

"I think they're intending to relocate the thing." another_liberal Feb 2014 #88

If they were intending to get rid of it, it would have been easier to just take a sledgehammer MADem Feb 2014 #89

Destroying statues is a cowardly insult to art. Bill76 Mar 2014 #100

It is a lot to expect Ukrainians to love anything Russian. aquart Mar 2014 #101