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Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 07:58 PM Dec 2017

Supporting Gillibrand, Harris, etc., while opposing Franken's resignation [View all]

Life is complicated. I've been very conflicted about this issue since well before Franken was accused.

Year after year in our history we've seen women being put on trial for the crime of daring to tell the truth about what happened to them, and countless women who didn't dare speak out because of that sort of unjust treatment. It is infuriating & heartbreaking.

Judging by the experiences of my female friends & family members, any statistic claiming much less than less than 100% of women having dealt with some sort of uninvited, unwelcome, or inappropriate sexual advance is understating the facts.

On the other hand, how can justice be served if an accusation, any accusation, is taken unquestionably as proof of guilt? And, not to dismiss any inappropriate behavior of this nature, but how can there be no recognition of the difference between various degrees of misconduct?

So, I've been very vocal about my disagreement with any decision about or by Franken before the ethics investigation was completed. There is a lot to be suspicious about as far as the timing and nature of the accusations against him.

On the other hand, I've also been really disappointed to see so many DUers go well past that idea and into vehemently attacking Franken's accusers in misogynist ways, like saying Tweedon's behavior on stage invalidates her right to complain about sexual misconduct by others.

That's the kind of thing that's kept many women silent about abuse. Hardly different from comments like, "Well, look what she was wearing. She was asking for it," and, "You know, she did sleep around" as justification for rape.

I'll admit, my first thoughts on seeing Tweedon's behavior on stage were along the lines of it seeming odd and suspicious that she could behave that way and then be offended by Franken's actions. But I analyzed that. She was acting a version of herself on stage, and her actions may even have been loosely planned. Also, most men, while having every right to be offended by such behavior, aren't.

Well, I'm sure this is already TLDR for most, and I know I'll find few friends by refusing to take a side, but it's a complex issue. So, even if no one even gets this far, I may as well finish my thoughts.

I continue to feel it was wrong for Franken to be forced out. I feel like we are now in a great battle for Democracy and losing Franken is losing one of our best warriors. However, I believe Gillibrand and the others are also warriors in a different war and are standing on principle and in solidarity with all of women and against sexual misconduct.

As one of Gillibrand's major efforts has been working on the problem of rape and sexual harassment in the military, her call for Franken's resignation seems completely logical and consistent.

I may not believe the best decision at this moment was to stand on principle, but do think that's what those Congresswomen did. So I think it would be wrong to condemn and abandon the Democratic women in Congress for standing up for women in general.

So, there you have it. Flame away.

33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Well said!!! nt Trumpocalypse Dec 2017 #1
And to stand on principle, means denying someone Due Process ? Oh. Righty-o. OnDoutside Dec 2017 #2
Not standing on every principle at once, that's true. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2017 #6
They had decided behind the scenes and among themselves that if another accuser comes Kirk Lover Dec 2017 #17
There are gray areas with many issues. BigmanPigman Dec 2017 #3
I agree with this completely. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2017 #4
Who on this forum advocated "abandoning Democratic women in Congress"? Bradshaw3 Dec 2017 #5
You misinterpret that aspect of my post. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2017 #8
I didn't misinterpret anything, just repeated what you wrote Bradshaw3 Dec 2017 #13
In rereading your reply, I feel even more strongly that you've misrepresented my meaning. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2017 #12
I replied above Bradshaw3 Dec 2017 #14
Actually, the bolded part is extremely important to the meaning of my sentence. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2017 #21
No the bolded part is a deflection Bradshaw3 Dec 2017 #25
I've seen plenty of posts of folks who want her OUT now. Kirk Lover Dec 2017 #18
According to some, you must be imaging that. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2017 #19
There has been A TON...a shocking amount really and if I didn't trash all those threads I'd be glad Kirk Lover Dec 2017 #20
So you can't back it up because you have deleted them Bradshaw3 Dec 2017 #26
Doesn't confirm your characterization in the least Bradshaw3 Dec 2017 #27
No flame. I have many of your conflicts also. Living in riversedge Dec 2017 #7
I imagine there are many of us with these same conflicts. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2017 #9
Al Franken was lynch mobbed and it is just SHIT and there are ZERO excuses for it! Period! LBM20 Dec 2017 #10
That's quite the exaggeration and insult to those who've actually been lynched. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2017 #16
I will support ALL of them over any Republican. Their positions on the issues are an open page DFW Dec 2017 #11
Glad to hear that you'll support them against Rs. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2017 #15
Agreed: it's complicated DFW Dec 2017 #23
I agree with most of what you say here. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2017 #29
I would not support those who went after Al Franken in a primary, but of course in a general Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #32
Well done, no flames from me. sheshe2 Dec 2017 #22
Thanks, sheshe. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2017 #28
Very thoughtful OP. Blue_true Dec 2017 #24
I've seen a lot of that, too. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2017 #30
Maybe Leanne Tweeden was 'acting a version of herself on stage' dansolo Dec 2017 #31
Both of those can be true. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2017 #33
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