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kenny blankenship

(15,689 posts)
44. Military function is best kept separate from domestic police function
Sun Jun 17, 2012, 12:37 PM
Jun 2012

Last edited Sun Jun 17, 2012, 01:49 PM - Edit history (2)

for the same reason we keep our military leadership separate from and subordinate to our civilian leadership. If you have trouble figuring out why that is, move someplace where military and police and secret police have fused in a paramilitary soup, or have never been separated, as can be found in many places throughout the third world.
Generally we like to keep military force and police force separate because we like CIVILIAN government. We prefer civilian government to military government. The separation of military and police powers is part of a whole tapestry of institutional choices directed to that end. We have elected Generals to the Presidency several times, to be sure, but we like to keep this sort of thing to a minimum. We don't elect serving military men in uniform, for example.




This is the kind of thing we're trying to keep from happening, Mmmkay? And the best way to do that, according to our national traditions, is to keep civilian functions of the government from being dependent on military institutions and military figures. The way we keep Bonapartism or Franchism down to a minimum (watered down to the level of "I Like Ike&quot is to minimize dependence on the military for day to day operation of government and maintenance of civil order. When people see that the civilian government can't cope day to day without the military carrying out some mission in the homeland, fighting criminal gangs or putting down subversives or whatnot, it will soon be all over for the idea that the elected civilians are actually in charge, or that they should be.

Militaries exist and are trained to kill enemies and to destroy their material capacity for resistance. They do not tend to respect boundaries much in their profession. Boundaries, such as the Cambodian border, or the Pakistani frontier, or "good touch/ bad touch", or the Rhine are strictly for losers, according to military minds - nor do they respect the supposed rights of their enemy, "quaint" conventions of Geneva notwithstanding. They are trained to think of themselves as apart from and above civilians, (The US military is traditionally trained to think of itself as a humble servant of and subordinate to civilian leadership, but with the expansion of Empire that self-image may be changing) The preservation of civilian life is a very low priority for any military, although that's never the sort of thing civilians like to hear from their men in uniform. Military men will sacrifice civilians, even their own, freely for small advantages. A PVT beats a civilian any day. We bombed and shelled thousands of French and Italian cities and towns to turn out the Nazis from "Fortress Europe" - to say nothing of what we did to German and Japanese cities. The first we bombed despite the presence of innocent civilians, the latter we bombed because of the presence of innocent civilians. The men who did that- who carried it out as well as the men who planned it - could not have been allowed to retain a civilian's way of thinking about the value of civilian life. There are rules in warfare against taking civilian life, but if we admit what we know and are speaking candidly about it, the rules are observed in the most minimal way at best. Civilian lives are destroyed wholesale, as a matter of routine and accident. Conspicuous taking of civilian life for the sheer hell of it is what is forbidden, and even sometimes punished. We may also have rules against torture, but wars in which we have not used it would be the exceptions, not the rule. Civilian casualties -so called collateral damages- are meaningful to soldiers mainly to the extent that outcry over civilian deaths may limit the ability to fully prosecute the war. Destroying the village in order to save it makes perfect sense to many military men, in the context of war, dedicated as they are to pursue the destruction of the enemy at any cost including their own lives. The price in civilian lives may be as high as you like, so long as we can point to some phantom "tactical necessity." That is all to say, you don't want to have to rely on people trained to kill the enemy as their guiding mission and as their first response to any given situation as your means of dealing with problems like a pursesnatcher on the loose, or a kid dealing drugs in the highschool parking lot, nor providing security for a political convention. The way of the policeman is supposed to be categorically different from the way of the soldier. The policeman's goal is NOT to kill all the criminals and clusterbomb their hideouts, so that they can no longer wage crime against society. If there is a bank holdup with hostages, you don't want to send in people instructed in the use of "rotational fire", and accustomed to the idea that civilian casualties are just some "shit that happens." And the same thing goes for drug interdiction - which probably is where you and the authoritarian right were headed with this bright idea of using the military as policemen.

The military is simply the wrong instrument for law enforcement - an overly blunt and brutal instrument- for the task of preserving civilian life and civil order.


Making the military and its leadership more important in the day to day life of the Republic is a dangerous mistake. This episode was close enough.

This message was self-deleted by its author woo me with science Jun 2012 #1
There should be an aversion (and there usually is) in the countries morningfog Jun 2012 #2
... woo me with science Jun 2012 #3
Hard to believe garbage like this is posted here DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2012 #4
It's RBTexMex. HughBeaumont Jun 2012 #59
seconded La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2012 #65
Well, the national guard is used a lot during disasters and the like. MineralMan Jun 2012 #5
Very true. I just don't get what craziness fuels it. RB TexLa Jun 2012 #9
Or for suppressing strikes, demonstrations, etc. Warren Stupidity Jun 2012 #14
The national guard is usually local people who are called up in those emergencies not an army of jwirr Jun 2012 #16
Not federal. Igel Jun 2012 #58
bu$h sent the National Guard to Iraq Art_from_Ark Jun 2012 #72
Because if all you have is a hammer everything begins to look like a nail JHB Jun 2012 #6
If someone needs to explain it to you... 99Forever Jun 2012 #7
Notwithstanding the infamous undoing of Posse Comitatus IDemo Jun 2012 #8
Do you have examples of military forces being used against domestic populations morningfog Jun 2012 #10
I do. Igel Jun 2012 #64
What kind of domestic use are you talking about? I think Syria's military is getting a lot of TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #11
Don't expect a serious dialog. This OP is stupid flamebait. morningfog Jun 2012 #12
I just want to know why people oppose it. If we have it why not use it. RB TexLa Jun 2012 #15
'If we have it why not use it.' Same question applies to chemical weapons. We got them.... Bluenorthwest Jun 2012 #19
And that mentality.. 99Forever Jun 2012 #25
In what situations are you even talking about? morningfog Jun 2012 #28
If the republicans have it, why don't they use it? See how that works? cherokeeprogressive Jun 2012 #37
Who is arguing against police departments using drones? RB TexLa Jun 2012 #40
Everyone with half a brain. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2012 #41
What other technology do you want to prevent them from using? Computers? Cars? RB TexLa Jun 2012 #42
No problem... we can now safely put RB TexLa's name in the "Give them drones!" column. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2012 #43
use it for what? spanone Jun 2012 #47
Read. Some. Fucking. History. PavePusher Jun 2012 #56
Here's a suggestion. This will help answer your question. Zalatix Jun 2012 #67
Oppose what usage and in what situations, RB? TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #73
You mean like Syria's military? GeorgeGist Jun 2012 #13
Show me anyplace on Earth where the use of military forces domestically is welcome by the people. Bluenorthwest Jun 2012 #17
Here RB TexLa Jun 2012 #18
That looks like the US. If it is, it kind of disproves your entire point. morningfog Jun 2012 #20
that is in the US. They were welcomed RB TexLa Jun 2012 #24
So, there isn't an aversion in the US? That is counter to your OP. morningfog Jun 2012 #27
Look at the thread, there is much aversion. The same thing done with disasters can be done RB TexLa Jun 2012 #29
Now we are getting somewhere. You are talking about military as law enforcement. morningfog Jun 2012 #30
Obviously you get rid of Posse Comitatus. RB TexLa Jun 2012 #31
Where in the world is that welcomed by the citizens on the receiving end? morningfog Jun 2012 #32
And with this post, the thread is so stupid as to merit no more replies... cherokeeprogressive Jun 2012 #38
So if you meant 'as law enforcement' why post the off topic disaster aid photo, which shows Bluenorthwest Jun 2012 #33
Uh, the National Guard delivering emergency supplies in the US.... Bluenorthwest Jun 2012 #26
In Canada we use ours in disaster situations quite a bit, but I doubt that's what the OP means. (nt) Posteritatis Jun 2012 #69
Too many people are stupid and will feel whatever emotions the TV tells them to Taitertots Jun 2012 #21
Tonight, on a very special episode of The RB TexLa Show. . . nt Codeine Jun 2012 #22
. . . RB . . . will drink with her. HughBeaumont Jun 2012 #61
A truly fine example of what is wrong this country.... RegieRocker Jun 2012 #23
Uh, not here. And especially not under a progressive President. Zax2me Jun 2012 #34
You might want to read some US History nadinbrzezinski Jun 2012 #35
Surely someone here remembers Kent State Ohio? cbrer Jun 2012 #36
What's worse is that two of the victims had nothing to do with the protest. HughBeaumont Jun 2012 #62
Amen brother cbrer Jun 2012 #71
it is unconstitutional here Marrah_G Jun 2012 #39
Military function is best kept separate from domestic police function kenny blankenship Jun 2012 #44
OMFG. EFerrari Jun 2012 #45
We could probably resolve this difference of opinion with a ncie centrist compromise kenny blankenship Jun 2012 #46
The cops Meiko Jun 2012 #48
I was suggesting they trade in their tasers kenny blankenship Jun 2012 #51
How in the blue fuck is this in any way a progressive/liberal suggestion? Occulus Jun 2012 #49
I'm going with "permanent shit stirrer". HughBeaumont Jun 2012 #63
It worked ever so well in Chile, Honduras, Guatamala, South Africa, and at Kent State. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2012 #50
It is an attitude we inheired from Britian. Odin2005 Jun 2012 #52
Britain had large standing armies tasked with keeping the peace FarCenter Jun 2012 #55
It's sad the way British and Anglo thought has been preserved in this country. RB TexLa Jun 2012 #60
You might ask the Mexicans how having the military do law enforcement is working out. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2012 #53
Historically a powerful standing army has been used to centralize and cement power 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #54
Adama said it best in Battlestar Galactica backscatter712 Jun 2012 #57
there isn't an aversion if it were used to manage emergencies La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2012 #66
The founding fathers did not want military to have such power. Dawson Leery Jun 2012 #68
This is silly. Ceteris paribus, you're right. Igel Jun 2012 #70
I'm not quite sure Sgent Jun 2012 #74
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