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In reply to the discussion: Pam Geller lashes out at critics: You’re saying the ‘pretty girl caused her own rape’ [View all]LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)108. The victim's intent is irrelevant, she's still a victim.
Reread the scenario at the beginning of this thread about the frat house. She's still a victim
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Pam Geller lashes out at critics: You’re saying the ‘pretty girl caused her own rape’ [View all]
DonViejo
May 2015
OP
Not a victim is right - that disgusting Islamaphobe is the REAL criminal.
InAbLuEsTaTe
May 2015
#107
If a cartoon can cause you to murder someone, you have no place in civilized society.
Shoulders of Giants
May 2015
#475
If you keep creating straw men to respond to I am sure you will continue to be outraged.
stevenleser
May 2015
#234
She picked Garland, Texas because there was a Muslim conference there this year...
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#291
Awww. You mean you realize you're probably NOT going to be able to outlaw blasphemy?
Warren DeMontague
May 2015
#381
You mean you realize you're probably NOT going to be able to outlaw blasphemy?
AlbertCat
May 2015
#389
So why do you seem to think "she deliberately said something she knew was going to piss people off"
Warren DeMontague
May 2015
#393
I'm saying that arguing something isn't protected speech because it "might piss someone off"
Warren DeMontague
May 2015
#463
And the subthread is about whether a) "she is the REAL criminal" and b)
Warren DeMontague
May 2015
#472
I'm guessing she picked Garland Texas because that's where, a week after the Charlie Hebdo killings,
Petrushka
May 2015
#390
And you don't find that extremely telling as per Geller's motives here? nt
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#399
Is Comedy Central/the movie theater/museum showing the art because it wants violence?
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#104
She scheduled this right after Charlie Hedbo and yet you think she's surprised it happened?
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#226
Not to mention she specifically held it in a place where she knew there were already tensions.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#268
So anyone who threatens violence wins, in the name of whatever cranky 'belief'.
Yorktown
May 2015
#459
They have every right to be 'mental slaves' to a religion, if they so choose.
Chemisse
May 2015
#358
"When people draw their prophet, it hurts and insults millions of Muslims..."
oberliner
May 2015
#446
I believe most Muslims are far more tolerant than you, or Geller are making out.
polly7
May 2015
#454
Difference between Geller and ACLU etal is one will fight for the right of anyone
NoJusticeNoPeace
May 2015
#231
It seems to me, that someone mentioned in another thread, just that sort of thing, in Iran.
beevul
May 2015
#246
and they're not? Churches are destroyed regularly in muslim dominated countries
samsingh
May 2015
#293
FWIW: Have you seen the winning cartoon? I just did a bing search and found this --->
Petrushka
May 2015
#392
"a contest to see who could create the most hideous and hate-filled cartoon..."
oberliner
May 2015
#302
She used that as her excuse to exploit the ignorance and hatred of both Muslims and bigots
notadmblnd
May 2015
#419
You posted the analogy that she is like the pretty girl getting blamed for being raped?
cbayer
May 2015
#15
She was? Did she have to duck? Did bullets whiz by her head? Was she in the same room, even?
GoneFishin
May 2015
#133
You don't? What if a gay couple goes into a VERY RW town where a Jesus/homophobic rally is happening
PeaceNikki
May 2015
#50
It doesn't matter "what prompted their action and what they thought might happen."
PeaceNikki
May 2015
#65
How is your position any different than "dressed like a provocative slut, deserved what she got"?
Warren Stupidity
May 2015
#122
A personal expression of love vs. intentionally seeking to provoke violence to serve your agenda.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#56
But maybe the gay couple just met and they are just doing it to piss off the assholes.
PeaceNikki
May 2015
#66
No seriously, you don't see the slippery slope you support? Not even a little?
PeaceNikki
May 2015
#83
Why? So you we can keep bickering? Fuck it. You're not interested in discussing like an adult.
PeaceNikki
May 2015
#196
In your scenario, had there been past instances of violence over drawing Bush?
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#410
you are very patient with someone who clearly can't understand a simple question
samsingh
May 2015
#299
Actually, legally speaking, there's no actual victim of an attempted (read: failed) crime.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#100
Then go ahead and get horrified, because if someone intentionally tries to entrap another person
cbayer
May 2015
#276
Let me repeat the scenario for you with the important words highlighted in order
cbayer
May 2015
#318
Its still not entrapment unless you think she created the idea of being raped by...
Humanist_Activist
May 2015
#319
Just like women who wear skirts that are too short when leaving a club at 3 AM...
Humanist_Activist
May 2015
#321
That's your assumption, not mine, I'm not the rape apologist here. n/t
Humanist_Activist
May 2015
#326
You apparently have a threshold of "naked" trying to figure out where you draw the line. n/t
Humanist_Activist
May 2015
#333
OMG. You do know that we are discussing a very specific scenario in which the words
cbayer
May 2015
#352
OK, maybe that's a strong word. But you are going back and forth with another member
cbayer
May 2015
#360
I'm don't have a standard there, a woman should be able to walk around, buck ass naked...
Humanist_Activist
May 2015
#330
And cbayer is the one who decides whether the alleged victim is really a victim or not.
PeaceNikki
May 2015
#346
Who is responsible for coming to the conclusion whether one is a real victim or not?
PeaceNikki
May 2015
#331
Ok, let's finalize this. I would always, always, always assume that in a case of
cbayer
May 2015
#359
We are talking about a scenario in which the person is already identified as hoping for an action.
cbayer
May 2015
#367
Seriously, you need to work on your comparisons, jumping in front of a moving car?
Humanist_Activist
May 2015
#369
Let me put it this way, she wouldn't have total control over the situation...
Humanist_Activist
May 2015
#373
For the last time YOU DON'T GET TO DECIDE WHO IS AND ISN'T A VICTIM
beam me up scottie
May 2015
#371
A person who intentionally wants a specific result and gets that specific result is not a victim.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#413
Oh, dear. You think Pamela Geller is a hero. I wouldn't be so quick to call others sick,
cbayer
May 2015
#298
Rapes are committed by individuals. This attack was committed by individuals.
lumberjack_jeff
May 2015
#422
No it is an analogy that you cannot come up with a coherent response to other than "is not".
Warren Stupidity
May 2015
#127
"Hi Welcome to my victimhood event! Please hold still while I paint a target on your back." n/t
lumberjack_jeff
May 2015
#502
You're so right. How people can defend that knuckle-dragging right winger who puts innocent lives in danger is beyond me.
InAbLuEsTaTe
May 2015
#110
when we had the crazy do that with the koran here in amarillo, national news, we called him out.
seabeyond
May 2015
#10
of course she is to blame. that is her purpose and intent. why wouldnt we be honest.
seabeyond
May 2015
#22
there is an expectation for public venues to provide adequate safety. Knowingly holding an exhibit
KittyWampus
May 2015
#19
I am speaking theoretically. And pointing out liability goes further than legal.
KittyWampus
May 2015
#52
None of this Free Speech martyrdom schtick means that Geller's the actual victim here.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#255
No, you are morally liable for instigating it. You're an instigator, a provocateur.
KittyWampus
May 2015
#7
If a Christian extremist had bombed the gallery displaying "Piss Christ" (a crucifix in piss),
Nye Bevan
May 2015
#24
Possibly, & the gallery might've been liable f/ not having adequate security.
KittyWampus
May 2015
#37
What did they teach at University about criticism of art you have not seen?
Bluenorthwest
May 2015
#94
As I plainly stated, I never bothered to care about Serrano. I gave a first glance impression.
KittyWampus
May 2015
#114
If only all religious extremists would do nothing worse than hit a photo with a hammer (nt)
Nye Bevan
May 2015
#384
Provocation for the sake of provocation is not a trait of a pretty girl. Geller is a really now just
Fred Sanders
May 2015
#8
The no longer pretty girl has been asking to have her ass kicked for many years.
elleng
May 2015
#33
Since she's a far RW nutjob, I guess that means all of the people on DU saying the same thing are
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
May 2015
#35
So in your mind is it impossible that in any situation two different parties may share the blame?
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#71
With intent, she successfully baited the lowest common denominators among us.
LanternWaste
May 2015
#38
Yes, because people, like bees, sharks and bears can do NOTHING to control their reaction to stimuli
PeaceNikki
May 2015
#70
Yes, because humans are alway rational. And human behavior can't be manipulated. LOL
KittyWampus
May 2015
#374
Even if only two of the hornets in the nest took the bait, it's enough to blame the entire nest. n/t
lumberjack_jeff
May 2015
#423
Thats analogous to the venue not renting her space, not people trying to kill her. eom
mr_liberal
May 2015
#96
so to be clear, Salmon Rushdie is responsible for the attacks against him, Charlie Hedbo is
Warren Stupidity
May 2015
#137
because this wasn't about "berating", this was people with guns intending to kill people.
Warren DeMontague
May 2015
#380
Begging the question. In order for a specific person to be a victim....
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#172
Geller wanted a violent reaction to her event so she could have a bully pulpit about evil Islam.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#181
Suppose a woman dresses "provocatively" because she likes the reaction.
Warren Stupidity
May 2015
#190
If a woman dresses provocatively only for the intention of being looked at then that's her intention
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#220
Touché. Your logic is impeccable...it all leads to provocateurs being unable to claim victimhood.
Fred Sanders
May 2015
#427
Well, it's like her old schoolmate who she only bumps into at reunions was raped. But it's the
GoneFishin
May 2015
#136
I've come to the conclusion that, just like with Hedbo, this discussion is useless.
Warren Stupidity
May 2015
#210
If someone actually desires to be a target, they don't get to be victims.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#435
Sure there is. You honestly don't think she chose Garland at random, do you?
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#437
Are you aware that it is possible for more than one party to be at blame for a wrong?
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#441
But you keep putting the victim label on Geller and she's not a victim.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#498
But if her victimhood status is irrelevant, your analogy automatically fails.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#511
You're twisting yourself in knots to try to defend someone not worth defending.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#515
I just read an article on Breitbart that could have been written from material on DU
cbayer
May 2015
#169
Metaphors that have inconvenient associations fly right past some, apparently.
X_Digger
May 2015
#461
Yes, comparing an act that provokes a thoughtless creature to an act that offends a person.
X_Digger
May 2015
#526
Actually more like a drunk asshole mouthed off and the person next to them gets punched in the face.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#227
i hate her but in this very specific instance i dont think she is wrong
La Lioness Priyanka
May 2015
#236
It's not about justifying shooting people. It's about Pam Geller playing the victim card
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#239
i thought she was making an analogy about the shooting, not her specifically.
La Lioness Priyanka
May 2015
#240
Yes, it's ridiculous that it provoked people to violence, but Geller knew that it would....
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#262
I fear you missed my point. I was talking about the percent of responsibility contest (nt)
cbayer
May 2015
#334
You're not reading what I'm writing. I'm saying they are both in the wrong.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#398
A whole hell of a lot of people thought what Martin Luther King said was offensive.
trotsky
May 2015
#257
I agree that one person is admirable and the other is despicable, and have not insisted otherwise.
trotsky
May 2015
#289
It must be super cool to read so deeply into the hearts and minds of people like they can.
PeaceNikki
May 2015
#317
If you want to be the one to go to bat for Pam Geller here, hey, be my guest.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#400
I actually asked you my question before that, but hey, I'm a nice guy so I'll indulge.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#407
Lovely. Very lovely. So your inability to answer my question either means....
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#430
She has gotten what she wants twice; violence and attention. I'm going to do what I do
liberal_at_heart
May 2015
#259
Yes. I mean, she'd be just as much a hero if 20 other innocent people died in the attack, right?
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#309
I have no idea what she means, all I know is she is an asshole for trying to get people killed.
Rex
May 2015
#365
I won't get into whether she's responsible or not...but her anology is incorrect
joeybee12
May 2015
#449