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In reply to the discussion: Pres. Obama tells Dems, on TTP: "Get informed, not by reading the Huffington Post" [View all]Ykcutnek
(1,305 posts)10. He's certainly more credible than the quacks who are spreading TPP disinformation.
They don't have a good track record on honesty and integrity.
But then again, they do know a thing or two about organized crime.
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Pres. Obama tells Dems, on TTP: "Get informed, not by reading the Huffington Post" [View all]
bigtree
Jan 2015
OP
Has he explained how these Democrats are supposed to 'get informed' when they have been
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#11
Every single member of Congress has the right to review the TTP drafts. Some have taken the
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#48
Well, we know they have RIGHT, but we know, unless Wyden et al are all liars, they have been DENIED
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#62
Nonsense--Elizabeth Warren has been reading the drafts. You seem to be confused.....
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#65
Right--they can't. Which is also standard procedure for many other pieces of legislation, like the
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#138
Aerows, can you name the other countries in this agreement? You think they might have security
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#152
So every member of Congress has the right to see them under extraordinary
MannyGoldstein
Jan 2015
#188
There isn't a final bill to review. And no....I'm really glad Ted Cruz's staffers can't review this
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#193
It's a national security is because we've included other countries and nearly 500 outside sources
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#245
Thank you, Aerows. I appreciate your well reasoned arguments in this thread.
Enthusiast
Feb 2015
#406
Elizabeth Warren was told that public opposition would be significant for the TPP if
think
Jan 2015
#235
It's not my argument. You don't seem to know much about the history of this issue. The Congressional
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#300
There is today a world full of low wage workers even without the TPP. I do not think the intent of
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#309
Are you arguing then to make things WORSE? It is the job of our GOVERNMENT not of Global Corporatio
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#314
If Elizabeth Warren would change her mind and decide to support the TPP, my support for her
Enthusiast
Feb 2015
#404
She's an important voice in this debate--one I listen too. The thing is, as I've written previously
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#488
Very condescending, as if members of Congress were children. Especially considering the YEARS during
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#438
Every single member of Congress has access to the draft TPP. Some have taken the time to read
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#76
I don't have a financial adviser, Aerows. And I index. If I could turn prospecti into toilet paper
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#119
fast track means limited debate and zero amendments on a bill already signed by the President
bigtree
Jan 2015
#150
Yes--I've already said I think no amendments is a feature, not a bug on fast track.
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#153
in support of fast-track you are blocking Democrats from influencing this trade pact
bigtree
Jan 2015
#175
I don't think the Democrats have the numbers to cloture amendments that would benefit. You forget..
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#191
you're claiming, on one hand, that Congress has a right to review - on the other you dismiss them
bigtree
Jan 2015
#162
just 'review' a draft, not the final language; not so with numerous corporate representatives
bigtree
Jan 2015
#189
Lol, so in your opinion, this is how democracy works. Foreign Corporatins, NOT out Legislative Body,
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#492
My dear, you must take it up with the forefathers who wrote Article 2, Section 2, Clause 2. nt
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#495
The forefathers are dead. They would roll over in their graves, if they were to visit the country
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#499
Some sharing of the final draft with the public is overdue. I suppose there is a legal constraint if
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#128
They don't have a final. The drafts are available to every member of Congress, though. nt
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#132
In Reply 101, you cite as authoritative the source you dissed in Reply 1 as uninformative.
merrily
Jan 2015
#149
No--merely noting that it was used on DU. I suspect that even HuffPo can transcribe
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#155
Not exactly. Aerows asked you the source of your info and, as reply to Aerow's inquiry, you
merrily
Jan 2015
#173
Shame on you for actually being informed about the topic you're discussing!!...
SidDithers
Jan 2015
#202
Did you catch the part where Google is keeping secret the names of the other signatories?
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#243
Well..FDL tells them there's a problem, so there must be one. Funny...no one wants
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#246
Look here, Bub, if your Rep or Senator doesn't have a photographic memory it is on you
TheKentuckian
Jan 2015
#361
What do you do for a living? How will this costly trade deal benefit you?
grahamhgreen
Feb 2015
#445
Did he tell those Democrats HOW they can inform themselves considering they have been DENIED
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#14
There have been leaks, damn whistle blowers again, and we know some of what is in there, relating
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#18
Every member of Congress can see it--they merely have to abide by the security procedures. nt
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#51
Yes, and several of those that have seen it (can't take notes 'natch) have...
stillwaiting
Jan 2015
#54
And I think we should listen to all voices---and thanks for confirming my point--
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#61
I don't know everything about it--but I do know who has access to it---every member of Congress,
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#80
Right--and when you deal with 12 odd countries, that's how things work. Jeebus, they can take a
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#148
Oh, lordy....those restrictions have to do with the nature of the very democratic Congress and the
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#87
As I have said previously on DU this Agreement apparently includes quite a bit that goes well above
stillwaiting
Jan 2015
#116
What goes above is national security issues, which makes the secrecy all the more
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#129
Oh--I agree with Krugman. We should have strong suspicions. But we shouldn't panic and lose our
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#142
Tell me you are being sarcastic? He tells people to get smart on an agreement that
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#31
I'm sure your Prime Minister and parliament are interested in your feedback and support.
TheKentuckian
Feb 2015
#501
Oh we can use that ol lightning fast freedom of information thingy...with no redaction's too.
L0oniX
Jan 2015
#289
What do you do for a living? How will this costly trade deal benefit you?
grahamhgreen
Feb 2015
#447
Every single congressperson has access to the drafts. Not all of them have staff access
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#67
Trust you and your nose about what? Sounds folksy but I'm not clear on what the point is.
TheKentuckian
Feb 2015
#446
Nonsense....Alan Grayson, like every single member of Congress, has the right to review
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#64
well, not in this case. Sen Sanders said members "have little or no knowledge as to what is in it,’
bigtree
Jan 2015
#78
I'd be very concerned about the republican majority and corporate-minded Dems passing fast-track
bigtree
Jan 2015
#143
What do you do for a living? How will this costly trade deal benefit you?
grahamhgreen
Feb 2015
#448
Deflection. One can only guess what motivates your position. How wi the trade deal benefit you, your
grahamhgreen
Feb 2015
#491
I agree with him completely. He has done nothing to think he's selling us down the river.
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#6
You mean like Ron Wyden? So 'just trust us' is good enough for the Trade Committee
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#23
In other words, since he has done nothing to explain how this will help the 99%,
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#38
Hopefully any agreement will set the stage for trade in the 21st Century. I hope we are a major
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#56
None on the Left "fear" Obama, they just want him to be accountable as any
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#216
When we find ourselves with millions of our children living in poverty, it isn't good enough
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#226
Those that support the President will not speak to facts only tell us to have Faith. nm
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#326
Canada and Mexico are part of the deal -- that would change/replace NAFTA. He's crafty ain't he.
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#337
Is that all you have to post. What about fact you totally missed that TPP IS REDOING NAFTA?
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#343
Why do you think that? I agree things aren't as well as they were a few decades ago, but it
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#348
It is because of NAFTA. NAFTA contributed to the Race to the Bottom. If the President continues
Enthusiast
Feb 2015
#401
I think NAFTA was more trying to preserve what we had and slow your so-called "race to the bottom."
Hoyt
Feb 2015
#440
I would believe what I want rather than what the corporations wish me to believe.
Enthusiast
Feb 2015
#441
Well, I am sure letting the world pass us by -- by sitting on the sidelines -- won't help us.
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#339
Doing nothing won't help, sorry. Plus, there are working class people in other countries too.
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#351
Right, that's why wages & benefits are going down; because free trade raises standards!
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#473
When will he stand up for US workers and against the interests of multinational corporations?
Enthusiast
Feb 2015
#420
What do you do for a living? How will this costly trade deal benefit you?
grahamhgreen
Feb 2015
#449
He's certainly more credible than the quacks who are spreading TPP disinformation.
Ykcutnek
Jan 2015
#10
So you can't back up your statement? How do you know that the information they are spreading
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#45
Well, I would not call MannyGoldstein a "quack", but he did make a very serious mistake
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#69
I'm willing to get all het up about the TPP, once I get some accurate information about what I
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#115
Ron Wyden is a 'quack'? All those Dems on the Trade Committee are 'quacks'? When did Democratic
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#29
All the outrage over secret negotiations over trade where liberals are well represented but not quite so much
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#74
Like I said, I trust Obama, that includes more than anonymous comments on the Internet.
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#94
Ron Wyden is not anonymous, neither are Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Alan Grayson among so many
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#292
So, to be clear your position is that Ron Wyden is an internet crank because that
TheKentuckian
Jan 2015
#332
i doubt few of the posters pushing tpp do it because of childish devotion to politicians.
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#468
I'm not following you. We are talking in this thread about the secret agreement being crafted by
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#295
I was not aware that Congress was being illegally denied access to draft accords or documents.
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#307
This is waaaaay more than a mere "trade agreement". And the warrior for the lower
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#315
My full faith and trust also. Evidence to the contrary does not yet exist to change my mind.
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#126
But he isn't doing what he said he believed in. He isn't trying to make this process more
rhett o rick
Feb 2015
#486
Do you say anything substantive or just tell us that you blindly trust Pres Obama? nm
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#291
Sorry to hear that. I was hoping you'd share with us some good reason to support the TPP. nm
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#313
He has effectively asserted that he will engage in "double think" if required
TheKentuckian
Feb 2015
#502
I understand the need in some to "just go along" w/o thinking. In these trying times it is
rhett o rick
Feb 2015
#505
The US negotiating position will require Vietnam et. al. to raise their minimum wage
Recursion
Jan 2015
#278
Well, since as I pointed out he's not "saying the opposite" I can't answer your question
Recursion
Jan 2015
#294
What do you do for a living? How will this costly trade deal benefit you?
grahamhgreen
Feb 2015
#450
People have tried to 'get informed' but the current version of the TPP isn't readily available. n/t
PoliticAverse
Jan 2015
#12
I am sure Obama genuinely believes the TPP will be good for America. I don't know if he's right.
Donald Ian Rankin
Jan 2015
#16
Excuse me but he 'can't let our current Congress negotiate details'. Are they not the
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#39
Excuse me, I'm talking about during negotiations to get a final agreement that would be presented
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#43
Obama does not have Fast-Track authority and he's unlikely to get it. In any event,
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#178
"The Top Secret Trade Deal You Need to Know About..Moyers & Company" --Dean Baker/Yves Smith
KoKo
Jan 2015
#267
Well, I may be stupid and you may be much smarter than I am, so could 'analyze' the part
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#44
Aw, you are very kind, Octafish. But there are a whole lot of people who I'm sure, would disagree.
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#287
How about Clinton's Secretary of Labor, Robert Reich? "Why the TPP is a Pending Disaster"
KoKo
Jan 2015
#60
All I can say is that, unlike the last link, he's not obviously a crank.
Donald Ian Rankin
Jan 2015
#86
Well, then, it's a good opportunity to go back to "Public Citizens'" Link and inform yourself...
KoKo
Jan 2015
#103
The professional trade economists are cheerleaders for the race to the bottom.
Elwood P Dowd
Jan 2015
#140
What is logically wrong with "I think this is a bad thing, based on past experience these things
TheKentuckian
Jan 2015
#354
Yup, given enough opportunities real mistakes would on occasion benefit workers
TheKentuckian
Feb 2015
#509
There has been adequate analysis by learned individuals from a number of disciplines.
Maedhros
Feb 2015
#480
What you have done is limited your acceptable inputs to a group that is chock full
TheKentuckian
Feb 2015
#503
I think if it's soley about trade and economics, it's a matter of scholarship on some levels
bigtree
Jan 2015
#28
Don't make a 'case'. Publish every last bit of the TPP a year in advance and let us decide
on point
Jan 2015
#21
'There is no red state or blue state just the United Corporate neo Liberalism states of america
Ichingcarpenter
Jan 2015
#24
"Get informed, not by reading the Huffington Post..." but by reading...what, exactly?
Iggo
Jan 2015
#35
WHEN were they made available?? For years Congress has been denied access and have relied on leaks
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#311
OK. How about the details of the negotiations so far and future negotiations in public?
Tierra_y_Libertad
Jan 2015
#40
I suspect we will see it when it's done. Right now, every member of Congress has access to the
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#71
you'll see it when it's done. isn't that reassuring? good to know the masters watch over us.
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#478
Every single member of Congress has access to the drafts. We see it when the drafting is done. nt
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#108
Yes. Congresspeople can read it. Sanders is complaining that his staff can't read it (yet)
Recursion
Jan 2015
#277
I *think* it also precludes a filibuster, but I'm not entirely clear on that
Recursion
Jan 2015
#283
"We share same values and are looking out for the same people" Then why so secretive??
madfloridian
Jan 2015
#91
Apparently folks know all about it, and what it does -- notwithstanding, it's far from complete.
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#102
Huffington Post is as reliable as any of the TV MSM or print media for that matter.
Enthusiast
Jan 2015
#341
My opinion of Cass Sunstein?? From 2008 He said keep harmony protect Bush. BS
madfloridian
Jan 2015
#164
Pointing and shouting "Conspiracy Theorists" is a favorite tactic of those that don't believe in
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#316
Exactly, because we all know there never are any conspiracies in Washington DC politics. nm
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#356
You'll see it when it's done. In the meantime, every single member of Congress has access to the
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#106
The Republicans in Congress that favor the TPP clearly are looking out for the same people that...
stillwaiting
Jan 2015
#141
Among the people who have covered the TPP for Huffington Post are Lori Wallach and Robert Reich.
pa28
Jan 2015
#125
Huffpo has published info from Grayson and others re: TPP. So, I guess Huffpo had to go under the
merrily
Jan 2015
#146
So how many "trade pacts" or "free trade agreements", have really benefited all of America?
SoapBox
Jan 2015
#168
Pres. Obama tells Dems, on TTP: "Get informed, not by reading the Huffington Post"
The CCC
Jan 2015
#183
"keep our powder dry"? what is this, 2007? are they no longer able to come up with new ways to say
MisterP
Jan 2015
#187
again, the goal's not to convince anyone, or even to stay in charge of the terms of discourse
MisterP
Jan 2015
#238
Its rather obvious for us that are independent thinkers and independent researchers.
Ichingcarpenter
Jan 2015
#240
Do you know how recently that happened? Because there had been complaints about secrecy.
merrily
Jan 2015
#228
The State Dept website currently returns 805 docs for "Trans-Pacific Partnership"
ucrdem
Jan 2015
#259
You say 805 docs are available and from your "It doesn't take a lot of reading" you believe
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#324
I think few Congressfolk have read the 802 documents, they are very busy taking sides.
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#334
Yes, I understand that point of view. But I think this is a different kind of deal.
ucrdem
Jan 2015
#272
I would ask one of the Beltway pundits if they have read through the American objectives of the TPP?
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#344
Those are "objectives" they mean nothing. Zero. Zilch. Tell me what the document
rhett o rick
Feb 2015
#459
Well we could GET informed if they would release the text of the agreement. Very shitty tactic
Autumn
Jan 2015
#305
This thread provides a great example of the split in the Democratic Party.
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#319
This thread provides a great example of a few things, but not what you're talking about.
Jeff Rosenzweig
Jan 2015
#350
It would be swell if the Democratic Party was united and Progressive. But the reality
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#355
You've never bothered with expressing any facts. Let me know when you wish to discuss
rhett o rick
Feb 2015
#389
This isn't about me. I accept your derision. But do you think that Sen Sanders
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#377
"Wait and see" and "we'll fix it later" are the political versions of the "four corners" offense in
TheKentuckian
Feb 2015
#456
Why would Democrats and Republicans alike (as you admit) push harmful policies like this?
TheKentuckian
Jan 2015
#371
So far no one that supports the TPP has argued with facts. They expect Blind Faith. nm
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#327
My arguments are that we shouldn't ram this thru w/o knowing what the impact will be.
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#373
The TPP is a secret set of laws unavailable to the American public, we can agree?
grahamhgreen
Feb 2015
#504
It's a bad sign. I also see this organized DU push back against criticism as a bad sign.
Enthusiast
Jan 2015
#346
Indeed. Those who want what's best for the country that also happen to be Democratic policies
RiverLover
Feb 2015
#442
Where would you like us to read about a secret agreement, Mr President?
lumberjack_jeff
Jan 2015
#335
This offers zero assurances of any kind of protection. It's rhetoric at it's finest.
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#359
Well, the parallel system in NAFTA has allowed US and Canadian unions to sue Mexico dozens of times
Recursion
Jan 2015
#385
This goes beyond workers' rights. This allows corporations to sue countries if
djean111
Feb 2015
#408
Yes, we should listen to his bullshit projections about 650,000 new jobs instead.
Vattel
Jan 2015
#357
Why informed? It's easier to be blissfully ignorant while spouting crap like Obama's legacy is dead.
great white snark
Feb 2015
#390
Aren't those that refuse to try to learn what's going on but content to trust Obama and the
rhett o rick
Feb 2015
#467
"they won't support any new trade deal b/4 the admin. can demonstrate that the result will
riversedge
Feb 2015
#419
How can we get informed about something that is delibertately being kept secret?
Man from Pickens
Feb 2015
#457
As stated at least 20 times already-every member of congress has access to any and all drafts.
great white snark
Feb 2015
#479