General Discussion

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)

3. There has to be more to this story...

Wed Nov 19, 2014, 08:33 PM

Nov 2014

Last edited Wed Nov 19, 2014, 10:05 PM - Edit history (1)

Maybe they were exploring gender expectations with both males and females in the class. Hopefully they also created a list of the things they like.

TYY

Edited to add: See post #15 for the actual story. There were no female kids involved.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

171 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Fourth grade boys list things they don't like about being a boy... [View all] TeeYiYi Nov 2014 OP

Why would you even ask someone that question? dilby Nov 2014 #1

male bashing starts at an early age nt msongs Nov 2014 #2

nonsense- we did the same exercise as kids 30 + years ago. Examining outdated gender roles and bettyellen Nov 2014 #8

Interesting that you'd cite a technique that's 30+ years old... Orrex Nov 2014 #41

Free to be You and Me was groundbreaking back 40 years ago (or more). Same exact idea. bettyellen Nov 2014 #52

Well, the list includes societal pressures as well as biological ones Orrex Nov 2014 #58

LOL, girls have 100X the hair pressure, and smelling- is a choice for all but a few. Men CAN be Moms bettyellen Nov 2014 #61

I said nothing to diminish girls' experiences Orrex Nov 2014 #64

LOL, nope. this is all about dismantaling the damaging ideas they have, so THEY can dismiss them. bettyellen Nov 2014 #66

It's not a straw man, obviously. Orrex Nov 2014 #71

it is a strawman, because hair is not inevitable, nor is smelling, loving football or ANYTHING on bettyellen Nov 2014 #74

But that's the kids' fear, regardless of how reality might turn out. Orrex Nov 2014 #78

you missed all the anger @ this down there? I don't know how you could, because it is there. bettyellen Nov 2014 #82

Yet another dismissal. Orrex Nov 2014 #84

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #132

LOL, it is good to know someone here remembers that! You'd think no one ever discussed these things bettyellen Nov 2014 #142

Marlo Thomas was definitely not a child abuser. Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #150

If you think the issues of living up to "Maleness!" have gone away in the last 40 years... MNBrewer Nov 2014 #156

I agree. Orrex Nov 2014 #158

There has to be more to this story... TeeYiYi Nov 2014 #3

no one should ever be asked about what they don't like about dilby Nov 2014 #7

kids should examinine wrong ideas about what it means to be male in our culture. they already HAVE bettyellen Nov 2014 #9

Kids are filled with likes and dislikes, and under large pressure to conform bhikkhu Nov 2014 #100

"stigmatizing discussion and thought" exactly right. bettyellen Nov 2014 #107

I Don't Get RobinA Nov 2014 #139

This message was self-deleted by its author freshwest Nov 2014 #101

Well... TeeYiYi Nov 2014 #108

TY. Command + still only increases text and not images on my Mac. It never did and didn't now. freshwest Nov 2014 #116

Is your browser window... TeeYiYi Nov 2014 #122

Nope, it didn't do it that way either. I'm finding more and more I can't do. I'll see if the GOP freshwest Nov 2014 #124

I edited that last post... TeeYiYi Nov 2014 #129

Agree. The one that posed that question to a child is a total ass alphafemale Nov 2014 #5

If you don't ask, you never know bhikkhu Nov 2014 #49

it's a do you still beat your dog question. n/t dilby Nov 2014 #114

No it isn't. There's no shame in discussing these issues. cyberswede Nov 2014 #119

to explore gender expectations- it is great they have them questioning these silly notions- bettyellen Nov 2014 #6

you can explore that by asking what does it mean to be a boy. dilby Nov 2014 #17

Nonsense, we did - we did-the same exercise as young girls. Kids already have these weird feelings bettyellen Nov 2014 #18

and that was wrong to ask you then. dilby Nov 2014 #21

Not at all- it was very empowering to rid ourselves of destructive myths. bettyellen Nov 2014 #22

how did that even work? dilby Nov 2014 #28

Again- it is not what they do not like about THEMSELVES. It is about the IDEAS of what a boy is.... bettyellen Nov 2014 #29

they wrote. dilby Nov 2014 #33

"being a boy" - everything they listed were stupid stereotypes of what they hear a "boy is" bettyellen Nov 2014 #36

What do you not like about being black? dilby Nov 2014 #39

LOL, among a peer group- it is a fine question to explore. Cannot believe you think these little bettyellen Nov 2014 #45

sorry need to put you on ignore. dilby Nov 2014 #77

Please do- and spare us the personal insults. bettyellen Nov 2014 #89

Of course it's an ok question to ask. cyberswede Nov 2014 #59

who knew a little introspection was so damned threatening- and easily misunderstood, LOL! bettyellen Nov 2014 #62

That's intellectually dishonest. Orrex Nov 2014 #75

you seem to think I was talking about you? I was not. As much as you seem to need to find bone to bettyellen Nov 2014 #79

It's still an intellectually dishonest tactic, whether or not you're addressing me. Orrex Nov 2014 #81

bullshit, you argued that hair and other things were biologically inevitable, and I laughed at THAT bettyellen Nov 2014 #92

Well, that's simply a lie. Orrex Nov 2014 #96

Bullshit- inherant: existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute. bettyellen Nov 2014 #97

Please tell me you're kidding. Orrex Nov 2014 #99

there is nothing new or scary about these discussions, LOL. bettyellen Nov 2014 #69

Agreed LittleBlue Nov 2014 #11

I hope they have Dads who teach them they can be "Moms" and hate football, if that is.... bettyellen Nov 2014 #37

Is it OK if they DO like football? FrodosPet Nov 2014 #160

yup, that would be why I said CAN, not must. LOL. Emasculating to love and care for a baby? Hope bettyellen Nov 2014 #163

The converse question was an element of the MMPI for years Recursion Nov 2014 #135

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #141

"suppost to like violence" - heartbreaking! bettyellen Nov 2014 #4

hmm.. GummyBearz Nov 2014 #50

When I was in 4th grade, there was some sort of national campaign against violence in cartoons Art_from_Ark Nov 2014 #80

International Men's Day? KamaAina Nov 2014 #10

I don't believe it. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #12

I suspect... TeeYiYi Nov 2014 #16

I totally believe it. half my friends are teachers. at that age, they are wild cards compared to bettyellen Nov 2014 #34

I was a teacher of that age group. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #38

wow, I guess i have met a lot more aware and verbal kids than you.... bettyellen Nov 2014 #40

You can get a kid to say just about anything you want... LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #51

are you suggesting somehow these kids like all the stereotypes and they lied about it? bettyellen Nov 2014 #54

I doubt that these answers weren't solicited... LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #63

are you saying this guy hates boys and wanted them to hate themselves too? LOL. No. bettyellen Nov 2014 #67

Yeah, because modern feminism is pure as the driven snow. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #95

have fun wandering off on a bizarre tangent @ hating on feminsim! bettyellen Nov 2014 #102

If pushing self-loathing on young boys is feminism... LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #103

you could not be more wrong about the "self loathing" , so wrong that I can't help laughing at all bettyellen Nov 2014 #105

Right... LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #109

Again...it seems that some folks are so invested in being pissed off cyberswede Nov 2014 #112

That's a pretty ignorant thing to say. cyberswede Nov 2014 #111

"Boys smell bad" LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #113

How is that "feminism?" cyberswede Nov 2014 #117

It's part of the White Ribbon Campaign. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #127

The kids themselves came up with those items. cyberswede Nov 2014 #140

I dunno . . . markpkessinger Nov 2014 #48

Around 5th grade is when both of my daughters started seriously responding to stereotypes bhikkhu Nov 2014 #55

that is exactly what I have heard from educator friends. the minute kids can talk they are very bettyellen Nov 2014 #57

Not to me Recursion Nov 2014 #136

+1 treestar Nov 2014 #154

Someday, they'll appreciate the 100 reasons why it's better to be a guy. badtoworse Nov 2014 #13

I feel sorry for him Iamthetruth Nov 2014 #14

More about this justiceischeap Nov 2014 #15

not sure why it flew over so many head here. Did people think they were just going to list a bunch bettyellen Nov 2014 #19

No shit. cyberswede Nov 2014 #42

Or they want children to be imprisoned by stereotypes? Just like Honey Boo Boo's mom, bettyellen Nov 2014 #43

Interesting!!! yuiyoshida Nov 2014 #24

Isn't that just one form of being a human? The2ndWheel Nov 2014 #32

I'm so glad... TeeYiYi Nov 2014 #87

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Nov 2014 #20

that would be ironic, given the context, no? bettyellen Nov 2014 #23

Bizarre responses is right. betsuni Nov 2014 #26

Is it ok if a boy wants to like violence, smell bad, and grow hair everywhere? The2ndWheel Nov 2014 #25

this is actually a more thoughtful and understanding comment than most posts here, LOL.... bettyellen Nov 2014 #31

If anyone thinks this is ok you are broken inside AngryAmish Nov 2014 #27

This is damned close to being child abuse. NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #30

Never to early for self loathing and deprication! linuxman Nov 2014 #35

A lot of those are stereotypes put on men by women davidn3600 Nov 2014 #44

More like stereotypes put on men by our patriarchal society. cyberswede Nov 2014 #53

If you believe that crap, do not blame women. blame yourself for not finding self-acceptance... bettyellen Nov 2014 #56

Are you suggesting women have absolutely no social expectations of men? davidn3600 Nov 2014 #60

I'm suggesting if you live for the approval of your bros or women instead of yourself you are a fool bettyellen Nov 2014 #65

But you do recognize how powerful society is concerning this davidn3600 Nov 2014 #120

oh I realized the programming as a child. Never been one of those who "accept it" or fear being the bettyellen Nov 2014 #125

Within the patriarchal society treestar Nov 2014 #159

Men created them when they had all the power treestar Nov 2014 #157

I was just talking with my daughter today about why being a girl is better, being a boy is harder. Dont call me Shirley Nov 2014 #46

Women who are strong are called a bitch. Women who challenge male dominated fields Luminous Animal Nov 2014 #83

Alas, I do. The beatings, the domination, the objectifying, the sexual blaming, the shaming... Dont call me Shirley Nov 2014 #90

While I don't agree one gender is better than the other, I agree with what you say here: freshwest Nov 2014 #147

They learn it at home, but they also learn it in the outside world. Heredity plays a part too. Dont call me Shirley Nov 2014 #161

A minor point about the thread title... cyberswede Nov 2014 #47

Hey there, cyberswede... TeeYiYi Nov 2014 #68

Hey there TeeYiYi, did you have any idea the weird reaction this would get here? bettyellen Nov 2014 #70

I figured... TeeYiYi Nov 2014 #76

well I would not call the angry biology= destiny thoughts expressed here anything but bettyellen Nov 2014 #86

That was swell of you! cyberswede Nov 2014 #104

Disgusting stupidity. phil89 Nov 2014 #72

some of the responses here are amusing noiretextatique Nov 2014 #73

what is really sad is that some believe that these boys are doomed to be smelly, football watching, bettyellen Nov 2014 #85

it is stupid noiretextatique Nov 2014 #91

this also would not be happening if some here had their own "biology is destiny" crap dispelled long bettyellen Nov 2014 #94

Did you ever think that 4th grade boys sunnystarr Nov 2014 #88

Ooooh..... "The Secret" bettyellen Nov 2014 #93

you get it. dilby Nov 2014 #110

Oh.my.god. cyberswede Nov 2014 #115

oh- they think boys are inherently smelly and hairy, and its just that discussing it is fucked up! bettyellen Nov 2014 #123

Indeed. Too bad some people would mock and dismiss their concerns. Orrex Nov 2014 #137

Supposedly all of us on DU are adults and yet I see messages being taken the wrong way all the time Fumesucker Nov 2014 #168

Which is why the "discussing" part of the exercise is important. cyberswede Nov 2014 #169

Getting back to DU, things get "discussed" here all the time Fumesucker Nov 2014 #170

I'm referring to the children performing the exercise cyberswede Nov 2014 #171

Wow. None of these ring a bell. maced666 Nov 2014 #98

I am really perplexed by some of the comments here. Behind the Aegis Nov 2014 #106

"having an automatic bad reputation", the saddest one for me steve2470 Nov 2014 #118

Seriously, it's kind of like being a Wookie. Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #121

the hair? bettyellen Nov 2014 #126

And the bad reputation. And, the smell! Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #131

LOL, good points! bettyellen Nov 2014 #144

a wookie bwahahaha....good one Warren ! steve2470 Nov 2014 #130

So is it plural boys or just one sensitive soul... Oktober Nov 2014 #128

If you're really curious, I actually posted a link to the original OP about this justiceischeap Nov 2014 #133

I think this is a great exercise *and* these particular responses seem coached RedCappedBandit Nov 2014 #134

I've said this before but... Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #138

The question could have easily been rephrased Shankapotomus Nov 2014 #143

only those ignorant of what happened think it is controversial. they covered good things too as bettyellen Nov 2014 #145

I'm not sure how phrasing a question Shankapotomus Nov 2014 #148

it's not a conclusion! Weird anyone would think that.....you should read the article bettyellen Nov 2014 #151

No matter how you spin it Shankapotomus Nov 2014 #153

by your reasoning, no one should ever openly discuss their dislikes or fears for fear someone bettyellen Nov 2014 #162

There are proper context Shankapotomus Nov 2014 #164

Obviously you did not read the full story, as kids did not "level body centric criticisms" at each bettyellen Nov 2014 #165

Link? Shankapotomus Nov 2014 #166

I agree that the piece in the OP does not give ANY context, but since we pretty much covered bettyellen Nov 2014 #167

equally heartbreaking is the entirely predictable defensive outrage reaction here. Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #146

True that. TeeYiYi Nov 2014 #149

Well, the Not All Men bat signal lit up. betsuni Nov 2014 #152

Since women work now treestar Nov 2014 #155