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Response to Rhinodawg (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 09:50 PM

23. None of this should be unexpected:


A caliphate (in Arabic: خلافة‎ khilāfa, meaning "succession" is an Islamic state led by a supreme religious and political leader known as a caliph – i.e. "successor" – to Muhammad. The succession of Muslim empires that have existed in the Muslim world are usually described as "caliphates". Conceptually, a caliphate represents a sovereign polity (state) of the entire Muslim faithful (the Ummah, i.e. a sovereign nation state) ruled by a single caliph under the Constitution of Medina and Islamic law (sharia).[citation needed]

In its earliest days, the first caliphate, the Rashidun Caliphate, exhibited elements of direct democracy (shura).[1] It was led, at first, by Muhammad's immediate disciples and family as a continuation of the religious systems he had introduced.

The Sunni branch of Islam stipulates that as a head of state, a caliph should be elected by Muslims or their representatives.[2] Followers of Shia Islam, however, believe a caliph should be an Imam chosen by God (Allah) from the Ahl al-Bayt (the "Family of the House", Muhammad's direct descendents). From the end of the Rashidun period until 1924, caliphates, sometimes two at a single time, real and illusory, were ruled by dynasties. The first of these was the Umayyad dynasty, followed by the several other sometimes competing claimants and finally the Ottoman dynasty. Though non-political, the Ahmadiyya Caliphate had been the only caliphate in existence for over a century. In 2014, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant proclaimed another.[3]

The caliphate was "the core leader concept of Sunni Islam, by the consensus of the Muslim majority in the early centuries".[4]


Look at all the countries we are talking about today. Israel, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and the little alphabet nations there.

Note the Ottoman Empire at its height. We're talking about all of the current nations as well as those that bordered it now:

Ottoman Empire (/ˈɒtəmən/; Ottoman Turkish: دَوْلَتِ عَلِيّهٔ عُثمَانِیّه, Devlet-i Aliyye-i Osmâniyye, Modern Turkish: Osmanlı İmparatorluğu), also historically referred to as the Turkish Empire or Turkey, was an empire founded by Oghuz Turks under Osman Bey in north-western Anatolia in 1299.[7] With the conquest of Constantinople by Mehmed II in 1453, the Ottoman state was transformed into an empire.[8][9][10]

During the 16th and 17th centuries, in particular at the height of its power under the reign of Suleiman the Magnificent, the Ottoman Empire was a powerful multinational, multilingual empire controlling much of Southeast Europe, Western Asia, the Caucasus, North Africa, and the Horn of Africa.[11] At the beginning of the 17th century the empire contained 32 provinces and numerous vassal states. Some of these were later absorbed into the empire, while others were granted various types of autonomy during the course of centuries.[dn 5]

With Constantinople as its capital and control of lands around the Mediterranean basin, the Ottoman Empire was at the centre of interactions between the Eastern and Western worlds for six centuries. The empire was dissolved in the aftermath of World War I, leading to the emergence of the new state of Turkey in the Ottoman Anatolian heartland, as well as the creation of modern Balkan and Middle Eastern states.[12]


As the Ottoman Empire collapsed, the Armenian Genocide occured and other nations were made. The Russians are tending to historical factions there.

That eventually included the state of Israel. Contrary to a mantra often repeated, Israel was not a gift from Europe and the USA for Nazi atrocities.

It had been contemplated in 1917:


And also in 1926:


True, it was an European creation, but so were most of the other countries that evolved out of the fall of the Ottoman Empire. It just so happened that the rulers were different, is all that happened to that huge chunk of the world's surface. Looking at it in those terms explains the resistance of the parties involved to listen to the United Nations. Their viewpoint extends many centuries beyond the founding of that organization, or even the definitions of the nation state.

One side pushed one way over centuries, and then the other pushed back. We have movements in all the western nations, Russia, China, the islands and in the Americas that call for a world caliphate. This is not a conspiracy theory. It's how people organize themselves for what they think is a good thing.

Those who believe in setting up or expanding a caliphate believe it is a great plan to bring about world peace. There are costs along the road to empire. ISIL is showing us what they'll be. They want to bring back that empire and their version of peace in which all the people will agree on everything they say is the right thing to do.

The caliphate(s) once extended further and was contracted only by armed resistance. It was during long, bloody centuries. IMO, America is much too young to grasp this.

Our idea of how those regions in the two images here should fit onto a map, is not theirs. It was only a temporary hold. They have historical precedent for what they are doing. The more lands they can put in their resurrected empire, the more influence they'll have around the globe to establish their peace.

I don't know if they are right or if they will prevail. I've talked to eager young people online who think it's beautiful and promote it with messianic zeal, very happy to convert others to what they think is a good and holy thing.

It makes sense to those who believe in this. Those who don't, either accept their doing it or oppose it or try to escape it. I've known people from Egypt, Lebanon and other nations who moved to the USA to get away.

Some Americans say nothing will change their own lives. They may be right about it all. But I think they're unrealistic, because in history people don't stop wanting because other ignore their movement. That's not how the world works in the long term.

There always seems to be something amiss in periods of peace. A lack of justice, most likely, so people continue to make war with each other.

Just a few things to consider without any judgment on my part and I doubt anything I could do would change the outcome of these things. And some may not even respect Wikipedia, either.

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Rhinodawg Aug 2014 OP
Uncle Joe Aug 2014 #1
Rhinodawg Aug 2014 #2
Uncle Joe Aug 2014 #3
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Rhinodawg Aug 2014 #9
EX500rider Aug 2014 #20
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LittleBlue Aug 2014 #5
Rhinodawg Aug 2014 #6
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Baclava Aug 2014 #10
truedelphi Aug 2014 #12
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arcane1 Aug 2014 #15
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truedelphi Aug 2014 #22
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truedelphi Aug 2014 #26
ReRe Aug 2014 #31
truedelphi Aug 2014 #24
ballyhoo Aug 2014 #29
oberliner Aug 2014 #18
truedelphi Aug 2014 #42
oberliner Aug 2014 #49
Igel Aug 2014 #21
hack89 Aug 2014 #50
LineReply None of this should be unexpected:
freshwest Aug 2014 #23
ballyhoo Aug 2014 #32
freshwest Aug 2014 #35
ReRe Aug 2014 #33
freshwest Aug 2014 #38
ReRe Aug 2014 #48
ancianita Aug 2014 #46
Laelth Aug 2014 #51
woodsprite Aug 2014 #27
ballyhoo Aug 2014 #34
freshwest Aug 2014 #41
ballyhoo Aug 2014 #43
freshwest Aug 2014 #44
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truedelphi Aug 2014 #52
truedelphi Aug 2014 #36
freshwest Aug 2014 #40
tclambert Aug 2014 #28
freshwest Aug 2014 #39
quadrature Aug 2014 #30
Tony_FLADEM Aug 2014 #37
ancianita Aug 2014 #47
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