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BainsBane

(53,032 posts)
128. Capitalism and individual rights go hand in hand
Sat Jul 19, 2014, 11:39 PM
Jul 2014

Last edited Sun Jul 20, 2014, 12:54 AM - Edit history (1)

(Cont. of my first post to you)
The very notion of rights as resting in the individual is a development of the classical 18th century liberalism that was the political justification of and corollary to capitalism.

Misunderstanding about the Founding Fathers attacking corporations, I believe, comes from confusion over historical context and vocabulary of the era. I provide an example from a leading history of Brazil, now retired from Yale, Emilia Viotti da Costa. She is writing about the ideas underlying Brazilian independence, which shared the same influences as those that gave rise to independence in the American English colonies.


In Europe, liberalism was originally a bourgeois ideology, intimately related to the development of capitalism and the crisis of the seigneurial [feudal] world. Liberal notions were born out of the struggles of the bourgeoisie against the abuses of royal authority, the privileges of the clergy and the nobility, the monopolies that inhibited production, and traditional obstacles to free circulation, free trade, and free labor. In their struggle against absolutism, liberals defended the theory of social contract, stressed the sovereignty of the people and the supremacy of the law, fought for the division of powers and for representative forms of government. To destroy corporate privilege, they made freedom, equality before the law, and the right to property universal rights of men. And to the traditional regulations that inhibited production and trade they opposed free trade and free labor. Although rooted in an expanding capitalist economy and in the experience of the bourgeoisie, the liberal message was universal enough to appeal to other social groups that, for one reason or another, felt oppressed by institutions of the 'ancien regime' The Brazilian Empire: Myths and Histories
http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~triner/ModernLA/Liberalism.htm


People see opposition to "corporate privilege" and they think of modern-day multinational corporations. Corporate in that era in fact meant the power of groups, like the Church or royal monopolies. The word first came into use in the 16th century, according to Merriam Webster's Dictionary:
Origin of CORPORATE

Latin corporatus, past participle of corporare to make into a body, from corpor-, corpus
First Known Use: 1512


At that time, nor in the late 18th century, did there exist entities similar to GE or Citgroup. The corporation as we understand it today, as an organ of big capitalist interests, did not exist in that era. The above reference to challenges to corporate privilege refers to exclusive rights wielded by the Church , the Crown, and royal monopolies under mercantilism, not capitalist business corporations as we understand the term today.

Classical liberalism emerged in opposition to mercantilism, economies in which the Crown controlled and benefited from commerce, and granted exclusive licenses to certain businesses (be they slave traders, tobacco monopolies, or other commercial entities) that were allowed to trade with their approval. Any commerce that existed outside of that was illegal, hence piracy. Liberals like Adam Smith championed free trade as a more efficient than mercantilism and free-wage labor as more efficient than slavery. These were fundamental tenets to capitalism, and were at the foundation of the American Republic, hence the Constiution's emphasis on individual rights.

Like you, Smith believed capitalism was natural and would take care of itself (the invisible hand). It's superiority as an economic system was seen as so inevitable, simply removing restrictions would allow free trade, and hence--they believed--liberty, to prevail. (Sounds a bit like George W Bush and the neo-cons, doesn't it? There is a reason that the term neo-liberalism is used to describe privatization).

The US Republic was established according to the liberal ideas of men like Smith and John Locke. Our constitution bears their influence and as such is a quintessential capitalist document. The founding of the US is inseparable from the development of capitalism itself, and its political structures are meant to promote the "free" development of capital and liberty, which are seen as synonymous.

Now, if one does not believe that capital and liberty are synonymous or that capital takes care of itself but is instead carefully nurtured by the state, as I do, then one approach is to examine the structures and consequences of the capitalist state. http://bobjessop.org/2013/11/04/the-capitalist-state-marxist-theories-and-methods/

It is not the only approach, and I do not suggest it as absolute truth, but it is historically grounded . It most certainly is NOT libertarianism. It is how I interpret history, and I cannot present a bourgeois interpretation rooted in American mythology as fact. I must leave that to others who buy into those ideas, of which there are many.

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2014 #1
No, not desperate at all. As I said, I'll support him where I can cali Jul 2014 #2
Just curious, but where DO you think you can support this president? Hekate Jul 2014 #4
I have supported him, Hekate. I support him on Russia. I don't think his options are cali Jul 2014 #8
Is my recitation of criticisms required? I don't sing hosannas in his name, but ... Hekate Jul 2014 #22
+1000 or so ... BlueMTexpat Jul 2014 #26
Add another +1000 or so from me as well Separation Jul 2014 #77
+ a whole bunch more. nolabear Jul 2014 #110
+1000 more, and an in-your-face to our resident chronic Obama trashers. Paladin Jul 2014 #149
Well said. Andy823 Jul 2014 #157
Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #7
what racist memes have I EVER used? NONE, pal. cali Jul 2014 #11
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2014 #20
+1....geez Enthusiast Jul 2014 #82
You Know, Ma'am, On Democratic Underground The Magistrate Jul 2014 #3
+1000! n/t ColesCountyDem Jul 2014 #5
Yes? Does that mean I shouldn't note what I did? cali Jul 2014 #6
It Means Your Quest Is a Bit Quixotic, Ma'am The Magistrate Jul 2014 #10
Actually, it's not quixotic. A good portion of DUers agree with me. cali Jul 2014 #13
AppealTo Numbers, Ma'am? You Might As Well Try Appeal To Authority The Magistrate Jul 2014 #18
Oh look! sibelian Jul 2014 #33
The OP doesn't H2O Man Jul 2014 #96
This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #151
Since the author H2O Man Jul 2014 #152
This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #153
for fun H2O Man Jul 2014 #154
This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #163
Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #29
I wouldn't mind being called a "sir" or "ma'am" but I do object to being called betsuni Jul 2014 #43
Shit. And just when I was going to address you as Cupcake. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #83
Very well said. Puglover Jul 2014 #47
I Am Not From Pennsylvania, Ma'am The Magistrate Jul 2014 #52
Maybe it means you shouldn't take "these folks" so personally Hekate Jul 2014 #12
lol. cali Jul 2014 #15
It was a non-hostile edit. Hekate Jul 2014 #16
that's how i feel , i see enough attacks on the President from all over the place JI7 Jul 2014 #9
my exact strategy nt steve2470 Jul 2014 #27
The president is of no consequence whatsoever beyond what he is able to achieve for the populace. sibelian Jul 2014 #34
of course it matters , it's why some are banned from this site JI7 Jul 2014 #42
Being banned from this site is also of no consequence. sibelian Jul 2014 #146
i'm referring to use of this site JI7 Jul 2014 #148
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2014 #17
No modern American president was ever going to be perfect... Orsino Jul 2014 #31
+1 treestar Jul 2014 #61
The implication of saying "underground". dfgrbac Jul 2014 #67
the site was started because of the 2000 election being taken away from the establishment Dem Gore JI7 Jul 2014 #132
It's crazy how that works. Democrats supporting Democrats is not controversial. tridim Jul 2014 #79
I support Obama AgingAmerican Jul 2014 #136
Should Democrats embrace Republican values after election? MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #103
It's a matter of HOW he is defended.....and criticized Armstead Jul 2014 #155
Is there a point? A specific issue? BainsBane Jul 2014 #14
Cold But Fair, Ma'am The Magistrate Jul 2014 #19
Good grief, Benito! Divernan Jul 2014 #38
Perhaps if you had ever bothered to read Mussolini BainsBane Jul 2014 #60
Right. H2O Man Jul 2014 #100
+ a gazillion. nt Mojorabbit Jul 2014 #138
"The function of the state is to serve capital" I think that statement needs modifying. KittyWampus Jul 2014 #45
The function of the state under capitalism is to serve capital BainsBane Jul 2014 #59
^^^ THIS ^^^ BumRushDaShow Jul 2014 #46
I agree, and the continual fixation on the Presidency BainsBane Jul 2014 #62
Whenever one tries to explain how to live in a reality-based world BumRushDaShow Jul 2014 #63
This. Skidmore Jul 2014 #116
It's not a "fantasy world"....You are preaching total submission and surrender Armstead Jul 2014 #158
Sorry but no one is doing anything of the sort BumRushDaShow Jul 2014 #160
I am well aware of that -- Its your dismissive attitude about it..... Armstead Jul 2014 #161
To address your assertions BumRushDaShow Jul 2014 #166
Thank you for your thoughtful resonse Armstead Jul 2014 #167
Lemme see what I can do with this BumRushDaShow Jul 2014 #169
I agree with much of what you wrote. Perhaps the difference is in tempement. Armstead Jul 2014 #170
I do agree with much of what you wrote BumRushDaShow Jul 2014 #171
Your posts in this thread have almost made the darn thing worth reading Number23 Jul 2014 #124
Agree 100% betsuni Jul 2014 #129
Thanks BainsBane Jul 2014 #131
I agree, it is simplistic thinking treestar Jul 2014 #106
I agree, but it is sad. PowerToThePeople Jul 2014 #48
I see BainsBane Jul 2014 #64
Your center paragraph is literally the heart of the matter Hekate Jul 2014 #65
I'm sure you are right BainsBane Jul 2014 #70
I myself am an "authoritarian," or so I've been told. My friends would be so surprised. Hekate Jul 2014 #71
You said it treestar Jul 2014 #107
Yes indeed. The obstructive, do-nothing Congress we have is a fine example of Skidmore Jul 2014 #150
Inexperienced negotiating with Republicans? Enthusiast Jul 2014 #85
The Bush Tax cuts ARE gone. BumRushDaShow Jul 2014 #93
I agree BainsBane Jul 2014 #104
Well said! Spazito Jul 2014 #97
Exactly. nt DanTex Jul 2014 #105
I reject the point outright that the purpose of our government is to serve capital BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #72
Your not, Phlem Jul 2014 #80
Blue Linky Phlem Jul 2014 #81
I had to look at my screen to see where I was? BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #115
I hear that! Phlem Jul 2014 #119
FFS BainsBane Jul 2014 #123
No, what's happening is you don't understand what you are reading BainsBane Jul 2014 #122
FFS, Oh I don't understand what I'm reading. Phlem Jul 2014 #127
Obvioulsy not BainsBane Jul 2014 #142
I don't know why I've waited so long. Phlem Jul 2014 #145
I agree, BrotherIvan. LuvNewcastle Jul 2014 #87
It has always been meant to check capital vs the rights of the people BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #112
Plus one a thousand times. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #88
That's an elegant way of putting it, Enthusiast. LuvNewcastle Jul 2014 #94
Correct BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #111
I'm with you, BrotherIvan. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #140
My point is that is the function of the state under capitalism BainsBane Jul 2014 #125
Capitalism and individual rights go hand in hand BainsBane Jul 2014 #128
If one considers individual Liberty vs. Monarchy, Maedhros Jul 2014 #134
Liberalism BainsBane Jul 2014 #144
While I appreciate your trying to give ample evidence for your argument BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #137
I have no problem with criticizing this or any other administration BainsBane Jul 2014 #143
It is a matter of degrees. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #84
Your entire premise is false, and the fact that you present it as accepted truth points to Maedhros Jul 2014 #108
You buy into the national mythology BainsBane Jul 2014 #113
I agree that the problems we face are intrinsic to Capitalism. Maedhros Jul 2014 #133
Oh, baby! "I'm a Progressive - I believe that we must change for the better." Enthusiast Jul 2014 #141
This makes for very interesting reading. Thanks for giving me different words to think about it. Hekate Jul 2014 #139
Did you ever hear of balance? Armstead Jul 2014 #156
Then there is the incredible disconnect between rhetoric of members here BainsBane Jul 2014 #21
This thread has turned into an interesting discussion, but I'll have to return tomorrow... Hekate Jul 2014 #25
The 1 Percent's economic interests do NOT equal the nation's economic interests. Divernan Jul 2014 #35
There is nothing more ironic that when someone responds to what is clearly BainsBane Jul 2014 #58
PLUS ONE! Enthusiast Jul 2014 #90
Entirely non-responsive to my point BainsBane Jul 2014 #118
You noticed that too also. Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #89
That they proceed to look down on those less privileged BainsBane Jul 2014 #101
I completely agree. He has posted one corporate shill after another to head critical NC_Nurse Jul 2014 #23
I fully expect those same people to support our next Republican president obxhead Jul 2014 #24
Apparently, they do, they just haven't changed affiliation BrotherIvan Jul 2014 #73
In my humble opinion, there are two distinct types that behave as you've described .... Scuba Jul 2014 #28
+1. nt OnyxCollie Jul 2014 #30
+2 L0oniX Jul 2014 #74
+3 leftstreet Jul 2014 #76
+1! Enthusiast Jul 2014 #91
Agree...it's my experience, also...of both.. KoKo Jul 2014 #117
you da man. Phlem Jul 2014 #120
The thing is if you want to see criticism BlueMTexpat Jul 2014 #32
Newsflash!DU is about primaries, Congress and State Houses as well Divernan Jul 2014 #37
All too true. BlueMTexpat Jul 2014 #39
I will echo this post Cosmocat Jul 2014 #55
Links please. Kingofalldems Jul 2014 #36
2.5 more years of non-specific whining predicted. JoePhilly Jul 2014 #40
some think posting on this site makes them an activist JI7 Jul 2014 #41
We ARE activists-witness NBC caving & returning Mohyeldin to Gaza! Divernan Jul 2014 #49
Guilty and prooud of it! mfcorey1 Jul 2014 #44
Its pervasive now. It is a hallmark of systems that turn authoritarian. woo me with science Jul 2014 #50
+1 L0oniX Jul 2014 #75
PLUS ONE! Enthusiast Jul 2014 #92
This board is plenty open for all POV's on Obama or any issue BeyondGeography Jul 2014 #51
you may be right when you criticize him bigtree Jul 2014 #53
The President works for us - not 840high Jul 2014 #54
Not for nothing, but this is not someone who lacks in people criticizing him Cosmocat Jul 2014 #56
Living in one of the most conservative districts in the country, conservaphobe Jul 2014 #57
There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it. Lord Acton Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2014 #66
You've become a caricature. joshcryer Jul 2014 #68
Yes it has gotten worse. Andy823 Jul 2014 #164
Please see my reply to The Magistrate (reply #67) dfgrbac Jul 2014 #69
I like Obama except for one thing: he's trying to change the Wilberforce Law in order to Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #78
It's a f****ng love affair, that's all it is. Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #86
I think we do have two small groups; one worships the man and the other group despises him. Rex Jul 2014 #95
And some will criticize him no matter what. I'm not talking about you, cali, pnwmom Jul 2014 #98
you should be krawhitham Jul 2014 #121
Some are so plastic H2O Man Jul 2014 #99
So what if they do? cheapdate Jul 2014 #102
And some ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #109
Very true. n/t countingbluecars Jul 2014 #114
And you do. aquart Jul 2014 #126
You can critisize President Obama all you want, but you are wasting your valuable time..... DrewFlorida Jul 2014 #130
I agree. Both left and right focus their blame and effort in the wrong place. CJCRANE Jul 2014 #135
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #147
Stop looking at individuals and understand the community as a whole. NCTraveler Jul 2014 #159
I can't speak for cali but.... Armstead Jul 2014 #162
"there is a reflexive resistance to ANY criticisms or suggestions for change" NCTraveler Jul 2014 #168
What about the "bash Obama no matter what" folks? Andy823 Jul 2014 #165
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