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jeff47

(26,549 posts)

42. The SYG law did more than create an affirmative defense.

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 02:37 PM

Feb 2014

Last edited Wed Feb 19, 2014, 03:11 PM - Edit history (1)

It also altered the jury instructions in those two trials, making an acquittal far more likely.

The defendant does not have to assert "SYG" to benefit from the law.

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No, Florida's Stand Your Ground Law Did Not Determine Either Zimmerman or Dunn Cases [View all] DesMoinesDem Feb 2014 OP

Only members of the jury can say for sure what upaloopa Feb 2014 #1

Stand Your Ground is in the jury instructions Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #2

The article is very clear. If you don't get it I guess you just don't understand law. DesMoinesDem Feb 2014 #3

The article is not law Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #6

No. Law is what the defense argues. joeglow3 Feb 2014 #46

It was in the jury instructions in both cases Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #48

The article addressed joeglow3 Feb 2014 #49

It doesn't change the fact that SYG was applied either Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #53

Where was it applied? joeglow3 Feb 2014 #55

Once again it was applied in the jury instructions Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #57

Which holds water only if you accept the jurors were dipshits joeglow3 Feb 2014 #59

Yes, how stupid of the jury to follow the jury instructions. jeff47 Feb 2014 #65

I don't think you are really interested in facts joeglow3 Feb 2014 #76

No, that would be you projecting. jeff47 Feb 2014 #77

Really a silly argument. DanTex Feb 2014 #67

There's no need to be condescending, the article isn't the jury instructions nor the law uponit7771 Feb 2014 #7

LOL. Can't come up with a logical argument, so you resort to cocky insults. Nice play! DanTex Feb 2014 #20

Agree. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2014 #39

The article compares Florida law to other states, not the law prior to SYG Major Nikon Feb 2014 #79

Neither asserted it as an affirmative defense, but both used it's threshold for violence NightWatcher Feb 2014 #4

Yes, jurors don't expect the shooter to bother retreating and anything bettyellen Feb 2014 #16

If one reads Florida's definition of self-defense, before/after 2005, it is clear SYG had an impact. Hoyt Feb 2014 #5

No, the definition of self-defense didn't change. X_Digger Feb 2014 #10

So it removes a "duty to retreat." Sorry, that is "stand your ground." Law was changed to allow Hoyt Feb 2014 #11

The definition of self-defense did not change. X_Digger Feb 2014 #15

It did, now you can shoot away, don't have to retreat - that is pull your gun and stand your ground. Hoyt Feb 2014 #18

Self-defense did not change, as you asserted. X_Digger Feb 2014 #23

The law changed. Now "self-defense" allows you to stand your ground, with no duty to retreat. Hoyt Feb 2014 #24

Yes, the law changed. Self-defense didn't. See the quoted section. n/t X_Digger Feb 2014 #27

So gun fanciers can stand their ground, shoot, and claim self-defense with no duty to retreat. Hoyt Feb 2014 #45

See? You separated them. They are separate concepts. Self-defense did not change. Thanks! n/t X_Digger Feb 2014 #50

so, Dunn had no duty to just STFU and drive away under SYG, which sounds geek tragedy Feb 2014 #21

That's a better way to put it . . . . . . even those steeped in gunz should understand. Hoyt Feb 2014 #25

Part of the duty to retreat that folks seem to be conveniently forgetting- X_Digger Feb 2014 #26

obviously the 2-3 jurors thought there was an immediate threat to him. geek tragedy Feb 2014 #30

And a majority didn't. X_Digger Feb 2014 #37

The 2-3 jurors found that he was afraid, not that there was a gun pointed at him. geek tragedy Feb 2014 #41

It's not about whether one is or isn't 'afraid'. It's whether one would reasonably believe in.. X_Digger Feb 2014 #54

THIS ^^^^^ bettyellen Feb 2014 #62

No, these cases were determined by Florida's "Open Season on Black Folks" -law Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #8

Can you link to that law please? Boom Sound 416 Feb 2014 #9

Law is above. It was enacted by bigoted Florida legislators with pressure from racist NRA and gun Hoyt Feb 2014 #12

Just the link to the law. Thanks. Boom Sound 416 Feb 2014 #13

You have google. bravenak Feb 2014 #28

I tried. Boom Sound 416 Feb 2014 #31

Dammit!! bravenak Feb 2014 #32

You think I'm funny? Boom Sound 416 Feb 2014 #34

Of course. bravenak Feb 2014 #38

I'll accept that. (I think) Boom Sound 416 Feb 2014 #40

Chris rock has nothing on Paul Mooney. bravenak Feb 2014 #43

I don't know Boom Sound 416 Feb 2014 #47

You should check out Boom Sound 416 Feb 2014 #51

I love Ralphie May!! bravenak Feb 2014 #52

See, look at us Boom Sound 416 Feb 2014 #58

That's how I like it. Spicy! bravenak Feb 2014 #60

Bullshit... joeybee12 Feb 2014 #14

Zman juror B37 specifically said "Stand your ground" was part of decision. Gun fanciers don't Hoyt Feb 2014 #19

Of course they did ... etherealtruth Feb 2014 #44

Wrong. Members of the Z jury disagree, and have stated that it made a difference. DanTex Feb 2014 #17

Another argument the article address. Were you not able to read the article for some reason? DesMoinesDem Feb 2014 #33

The article isn't the word of god, you know. Sometimes articles on the internet are wrong! DanTex Feb 2014 #35

So you're talking about what people THINK SYG means, DirkGently Feb 2014 #68

I'm talking about what actual jurors on the Z trial thought SYG meant. DanTex Feb 2014 #71

Yes, the perception of people that SYG means DirkGently Feb 2014 #73

I agree with this. DanTex Feb 2014 #74

Absolutely SYG makes it worse. The duty to flee is good policy. DirkGently Feb 2014 #75

Amazing how it's the libertarian types who also defend SYG. nt geek tragedy Feb 2014 #22

Hey, stand your ground defenders! bravenak Feb 2014 #29

Dan Abrams is a conservative media shill so fuck him Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #36

The SYG law did more than create an affirmative defense. jeff47 Feb 2014 #42

That doesn't necessarily follow. The law still has to APPLY DirkGently Feb 2014 #64

And it does apply. It affected the jury instructions. jeff47 Feb 2014 #66

Being mentioned & applying are not the same, Jeff. DirkGently Feb 2014 #69

Did it change anything in the case? jeff47 Feb 2014 #70

Laws actually ARE technical details, Jeff. DirkGently Feb 2014 #72

FFS can you read? jeff47 Feb 2014 #78

Wrong, Jeff. You said DirkGently Feb 2014 #80

Uh huh kcr Feb 2014 #56

I think the article is technically correct. But I see what DirkGently Feb 2014 #61

well shit, if some ALEC salad tosser sez it didn't apply then it didn't apply.. frylock Feb 2014 #63