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In reply to the discussion: Contrary to popular opinion, DU is supposed to be for politically *liberal* people. Either that or [View all]Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,794 posts)233. You make a good point, but the question related to my OP and your reply is this,
or something like it: Do we tolerate anything and everything? Antisemitism? Gay bashing? Misogyny. Social Darwinism?
I've seen a lot of beliefs espoused here that I don't think we should tolerate. I disagree that it would be "an echo chamber" or "boring" here on DU if Right Wing talking points were not tolerated.
For those who want to debate right wingers, there's always Yahoo comments. They won't change their minds here any more than they will there.
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Contrary to popular opinion, DU is supposed to be for politically *liberal* people. Either that or [View all]
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
OP
My MSNBC score said I was a Bleeding Heart Liberal. So I guess I'm welcome here
Pretzel_Warrior
Oct 2013
#1
To which I object. One example of why I posted this. Either this site is for liberals and we have
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#21
The TOS seems to think so, if you believe that DU is for preachers. As someone else said,
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#64
You are correct. I misunderstood which "outer edges" s/he was referring to.
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#88
I was more referring to the recent broad swath spying on vast reams of MANY Americans' data.
Pretzel_Warrior
Oct 2013
#9
nods - just curious - i agree that the broad brush stuff is really something they should stop
el_bryanto
Oct 2013
#14
You're simply taking your personal view and labeling anyone with a more moderate view
treestar
Oct 2013
#242
Nevertherless, it seems to me that if the TOS for an entire site says the site is for "liberals,"
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#10
There are a heck of a lot of posts here lately espousing points of view that I believe most liberals
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#26
then it would probably be good to point that out to the posters in a case by case
Pretzel_Warrior
Oct 2013
#28
That would be extremely inefficient. Not to mention, specific to me. I did not write the TOS. I'd
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#75
I have been thinking the same thing. Maybe Liberal doesn't mean exactly what I think it means, or
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#78
Normally, liberal covers a scope of ideas. By definition, "liberal" is not a rigid term.
JDPriestly
Oct 2013
#128
None of that is new to me, yet I am still wonder what definition of liberal is meant in the DU TOS.
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#173
Maybe there's something wrong with it or maybe not, but the TOS does label and exclude certain
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#440
Nope. At least that's not what the TOS says. If I say, and I repeat my self, that my club is
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#115
that's what jumps out at me....there have been NUMEROUS violations of that!
VanillaRhapsody
Oct 2013
#123
It means within the political framework....DEMOCRATS....not Anarchy....
VanillaRhapsody
Oct 2013
#312
Notice how the R's fans the fire of their most rightward faction and it gets attention and gets
cui bono
Oct 2013
#116
Or, they are afraid of embracing liberals. They may support quite leftward liberal
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#120
Agreed. The monied interests benefit by political shifts to the right, not the left.
GoneFishin
Oct 2013
#251
Yep. This site would be a lot more Democratic if those types were tombstoned.
cui bono
Oct 2013
#344
In an endless downward spiral, the drift to the right also makes it more likely that Right-leaners
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#444
do you know anything about statistics? then you will know most populations
Pretzel_Warrior
Oct 2013
#43
The population in question must be defined. Otherwise, you have a bell curve that describes all
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#83
We don't know anything of the sort. We do assume that a lot. We also assume randomness a lot.
bemildred
Oct 2013
#238
That's the key though. Establishment liberals versus more liberal progressives.
SolutionisSolidarity
Oct 2013
#27
Well, again, maybe that needs a definition as well. The writers of the TOS included, "Teabaggers
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#17
Perhaps, but many of those viewpoints that are not necessarily right wing are also clearly not
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#30
Not a disconnect in terms of DU membership requirements. If I say a club is for teens who like to
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#106
So-called 'free trade' is not liberal. It's not even correctly named as it is not free trade at all.
cui bono
Oct 2013
#346
Well there are a lot of people who call themselves liberal when they really are not.
cui bono
Oct 2013
#358
I don't disagree with that. As long as the regulations have in them something about limited size
cui bono
Oct 2013
#362
Not being in favor of marriage equality as a "litmus test" for DU is VERY recent
MNBrewer
Oct 2013
#375
I know. So, the question is, what does the TOS mean by the term "liberal".
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#438
is it more accruate to say that the system that pays them and helps keep them ELECTED
Volaris
Oct 2013
#110
Well they do say things and support things and vote for things that aren't liberal
cui bono
Oct 2013
#122
is that a problem that can be adressed and corrected from WITHIN that same system, IYO?
Volaris
Oct 2013
#132
I'm anti-abortion, but I still NEVER vote for a Rethug. I don't always vote for Dems either.
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#11
I do not support abortion, period. You are framing it in your way, from an INFERENCE that you make.
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#112
Ectopic pregnancies are sometimes found before they rupture, in which case it is ended before to
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#272
No one?? There have been quite a few ectopic pregnancies that resulted in live births.
REP
Oct 2013
#389
I will not personally engage in or supporty a specific abortion on my own moral grounds
hooverville29
Oct 2013
#285
I call you a hypocrite unless you have your name on the list for LIVE organ transplant.
idwiyo
Oct 2013
#239
But of course! "All life is sacred" BUT hers is most sacred of all! Damn hypocrite.
idwiyo
Oct 2013
#402
Are you opposed to the practice of abortion or are you opposed to the legality of abortion? nt
el_bryanto
Oct 2013
#16
If you feel like Abortion should be legally proscribed - you don't really fit in around here
el_bryanto
Oct 2013
#314
Holy shit. You're seriously anti-abortion? What the hell are you doing here?
Gravitycollapse
Oct 2013
#24
I've never actually seen anyone say they were anti-abortion on here before.
Gravitycollapse
Oct 2013
#36
Actually, Gravitycollapse, I think that there are a lot of people who consider themselves liberal
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#67
I'm more concerned with the mother than with a zygote or embryo or fetus.
Gravitycollapse
Oct 2013
#76
If you are attempting to make yourself sound noble for disparaging female autonomy...
Gravitycollapse
Oct 2013
#105
Logical conclusion to anti-choicer's claim that "every life is sacred". Wonder how many people died
idwiyo
Oct 2013
#403
Please define "Life" as you are using it here. It has different meanings and hence use and I would
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#274
Whatever, Prosense. If I don't respond to you again? Well, you know the deal.....
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#159
But you think someone has a right to legislate that a woman carry to term and birth a child.
cui bono
Oct 2013
#372
I'd like her to define "Life" for us as I think she is using it in a different way, different defini
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#276
"YOU believe, however, that life does not begin at conception" WHAT is "life"?
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#275
You have to understand that your are denying female autonomy. And that is misogyny.
Gravitycollapse
Oct 2013
#87
This is where I am, which is why I always say I'm against abortion for myself.
ScreamingMeemie
Oct 2013
#93
I understand what you're saying, ScreamingMeemie, but we impose our belief systems upon others every
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#114
Good night Th1onein. You're being deliberately obtuse when it comes to dictating
ScreamingMeemie
Oct 2013
#160
I think I know which post you are talking about, and the title of the post wasn't the subject of the
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#301
Doesn't everyone think that their position is reasonable? I'm no more condescending than anyone who
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#427
But life as in a viable human life outside the womb, does not begin at conception.
cui bono
Oct 2013
#433
I am not being condescending. Especially when people ignore what I am saying and only lob insults.
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#436
I don't expect anyone to jump on my bandwagon. But I do expect polite discourse.
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#468
Words fail me. Describing your behavior in terms you do not like is an insult and personal attack?
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#464
That was the very first post to you and I wouldn't consider it "verbally abusive".
cui bono
Oct 2013
#467
Cui Bono, we disagree. I actually think that this position is very consistent with the liberal
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#469
There are actually a group of liberals, Democrats for Life, who are against abortion.
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#474
Dems are not necessarily liberal though. Do you have stats as to percentage of liberals
cui bono
Oct 2013
#475
Where did I say that? Anyway, did you have a link to statistics of anti-choice liberals?
cui bono
Oct 2013
#488
How many of those Democrats for "life" are on mandatory live organ donation list?
idwiyo
Oct 2013
#498
Sorry, Idwiyo, in order to buy into your argument, I'd have to agree with your paradigm.
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#504
If you're here to lob insults, I'm not listening. If you are here to discuss this issue, you need
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#510
About 40% of Dems self-describe as pro-life. I think that's a pretty substantial number.
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#505
Yes it is silly. You can't even acknowledge that there are moderate Dems who aren't liberal.
cui bono
Oct 2013
#516
If you want me to change my framing away from making it a women's rights issue it ain't gonna happen
cui bono
Oct 2013
#520
That poster has been very polite and slung no insults. Condescending is also saying someone who
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#463
Do you pay taxes and support war? Why or how do you manage to pay no taxes?
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#280
Now you equate paying taxes with supporting your child financially? What law says we have to respect
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#279
I see. So you deny women the right to an abortion for morality, but are ok funding wars that kill
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#323
Both of those laws require us to intervene, and yes, in a dangerous situation sometimes.
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#140
"choice should begin before a person has unprotected sex"? what about in cases of rape or contracept
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#282
Come on, now, uppityperson! I have not ever called anyone a "damn slut." Geez.
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#322
I notice you didn't answer any of my questions. Try again, I'll rephrase it to take out those words.
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#324
I don't think that either rape or contraceptive failure is a choice. Of course not.
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#327
You are fine legislating that raped women and those pregnant by contraceptive failure must try and
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#329
Will you define "life" since there are many meanings and I want to hear yours? Thank you.
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#337
So you believe a women who is raped and impregnated should be forced to carry to term.
cui bono
Oct 2013
#374
It is a choice not supported by religion or morals. Rather like your take on abortion.
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#283
I will not participate in or support a specific abortion myself, and believe others
hooverville29
Oct 2013
#287
to be fair, that was 9 years ago. I'd like to hear if they feel the same now. Hmmm, they posted toda
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#408
See, that right there, for me, is hugely anti-liberal. What the bible says should not matter in
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#448
That was NINE years ago, I asked them if they had changed their mind and got this to share.
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#485
Given post 485, I think you might want to consider deleting your accusation.
msanthrope
Nov 2013
#528
You are not a radical feminist AND against abortion. Those two are mutually exclusive issues.
Gravitycollapse
Oct 2013
#84
I'm sorry, but you do not define me or my politics. I am both a radical feminist and anti-abortion.
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#90
Yes, I'm sure there must be tens of you. And you all misappropriate the term "feminism."
Gravitycollapse
Oct 2013
#96
Gravitycollapse, I have always had tons of respect for you. Have some for me.
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#107
Not a good argument for your position. EVERYONE ELSE thinks such and such.....sorry, doesn't fly.
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#470
I've slept on it and have concluded there is no possible way to be a progressive...
Gravitycollapse
Oct 2013
#326
I'm sorry you came to that conclusion. There are many progressives that would disagree with you.
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#335
Why should we have respect for your opinion denying women the right to a safe, legal, hygienic abort
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#284
Yes it is possible for a male to be a radical feminist. Although highly unlikely...
Gravitycollapse
Oct 2013
#321
Not true. *CHOICE* is advocated for each woman, not a predetermination of what the choice should be.
hooverville29
Oct 2013
#288
No one has asked whether what this supporter of all life would do if the life of the child
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#213
When the mother is unconscious and the decision must be made immediately? Either option is equally
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#426
I really don't know the answer to that question, but I would veer in the direction of saving the
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#428
Thanks for the reply. So dictating the use of a person's body part(s) to support a life is not the
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#435
Did you even read that post? "A" is radically different from "A" and "most people" would agree?
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#501
If a pg woman were unconcious and dying, you would "probably" save her life by an abortion if that
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#500
Ask them their definition of "life", would you. Since it has been thrown out undefined, if you would
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#465
In a case where the mother's life depends on aborting the fetus, who dies by your rules?
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#216
Screw anyone who wants to impose their beliefs on my right to chose what to do with my body.
idwiyo
Oct 2013
#201
I have a big problem with calling an anti-abortion stance a "pro-life ethic,"
truebluegreen
Oct 2013
#292
Sometimes abortion is preferred to continuing the pregnancy. And it IS a women's right issue.
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#328
Obviously. You call abortion homicide and women who get them murders and yourself a radical feminist
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#339
I am also. That's why I have spent a lot of my career working & volunteering at reproductive health
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#348
I'm not going to argue with you. We clearly disagree. But if you want to continue to air
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#352
Those are your beliefs and you are entitled to them. As I am to mine. Now, we are done.
Th1onein
Oct 2013
#366
This issue is what changed my repub mom into a strong Democrat. If you vote or work to restrict
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#502
All too liberally, imnsho. So, I'd like to know if certain posters who I don't think are liberals
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#40
So, a person who is anti-abortion, anti-food stamps, anti-regulation, anti-equal rights,
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#70
On this site, whoever owns it and controls it has that right. I just wish they'd be clear
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#146
Have you checked with Ask the Administrators for clarification? or is this argument sufficient?
Hekate
Oct 2013
#34
You've got over 20,000 posts. You can't expect newer members to know everything you know about DU.
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#449
Maybe you should get a little more DU knowledge under your belt before drawing lines. n/t
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#497
same here. some fail to see they have a very narrow definition of "liberal"
Pretzel_Warrior
Oct 2013
#59
Apparently the OP thinks the DU-TOS is Holy Writ, and he's the prophet who interprets it
Hekate
Oct 2013
#212
Interesting. You choose to *interpret* my words to mean something I did not say or mean, and you
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#451
Because I think when people take positions in line with a democratic President...
BluegrassStateBlues
Oct 2013
#50
If that's the Democrat running, absolutely. You know Kucinich was anti-choice until '04, right?
Recursion
Oct 2013
#81
Fair enough challenge to the fact that I offered more of an opinion than a fact
Volaris
Oct 2013
#183
Yeah, I'm selecting a specific part of the TOS that says a specific thing. Those other things
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#57
I'm not spinning anything. If you are trying to say that "DU is for politically liberal people"
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#177
As I posted above, this is where the problem lies. The elected Dems and the ones who are "allowed"
cui bono
Oct 2013
#69
Correct, but it would be crazy to call a site Democratic Underground if it's not for Democrats.
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#184
Sounds like you want less Democrats elected. That is against the TOS, too.
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#169
That's really pouty. If you believe in liberal policies, you should vote for politicians who also
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#185
First of all, what you said has nothing to do with what I said. I will repeat:
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#220
Lol! Who died and took your reading comprehension skills with them?
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#424
Don't be silly. Anyone who wants to call themselves a liberal is one. Magic wand.
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#167
Yes, the TOS contains a number of types of people who are not welcome. You should read it.
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#164
If there are no differences, then there should be no separate parties. They will totally have to
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#188
I don't even think the real clashes are about degree of liberalness, but about pragmatism vs.
Recursion
Oct 2013
#85
Who's to say what's liberal, even some of the time? Do we have a definition or not? If you
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#190
The actual book definitions of "Liberal" and "Progressive" are themselves broad.
stevenleser
Oct 2013
#299
Depends on the book. And many would not consider Wikipedia "the book." Nevertheless, DU's TOS
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#432
The TOS specifically says it's for liberals. So, that would mean not for Democrats who are not
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#196
You think that I think that? I never said that. My most recent thought about what the TOS says is
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#434
Since the first sentence of the TOS specifies that DU is for "politically liberal people,"
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#195
Kind of harsh calling what you think bullshit, but hey, feel free to discredit
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#199
Again, you react to your incorrect interpretation of my words. If you were really good at spotting
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#437
Be prepared to get blasted for your "purity" test and "Oh, so YOU should get to decide what's
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#204
Democratic Underground is where I got the word on which you focus here, but that was not the focus
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#230
You seem to be the one who wants to tell other people what they mean. Whoever wrote the TOS
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#439
No. I said if the TOS doesn't mean what it says, it should be changed to reflect
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#443
Dang. I'm taking some time off, but I've been lurking...who could completely abstain after 8 years?
cherokeeprogressive
Oct 2013
#163
good to see you back, cherokeeprogressive ! I really thought you were a "goner"
steve2470
Oct 2013
#214
Interesting that you think my OP says things it does not say, but hey, you obviously wanted to be
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#222
Especially when those Right Wing talking points are from such an extreme Right Wing. nt
Enthusiast
Oct 2013
#174
Nice of you to misinterpret my OP to fit your own image of what you feel like railing against.
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#200
Apology accepted. You say you let the system take care of the far right posters.
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#228
But there is a limit to tolerance. If not, DU should ban no one, ever, for any reason.
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#431
DU = the Democratic Party base, progressives, stealth conservatives, trolls, moderates....
steve2470
Oct 2013
#218
My OP doesn't call for narrowing of the TOS. At first I was pointing out that the
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#231
DU members tend to be more liberal on some issues, more moderate, or even centrist on others.
JoePhilly
Oct 2013
#248
DKF was banned for promoting non-liberal ideas, no? It did have something to do with a label. So,
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#429
For me, the difference between Democrats and Republicans is taking care of one another
LittleBlue
Oct 2013
#223
You make a good point, but the question related to my OP and your reply is this,
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#233
Not exactly. Change question 4 to say "including anti-choice" and watch what's going to happen.
idwiyo
Oct 2013
#240
I think you hit on the issue with that survey, too much left to interpretation, too much ambiguity
stevenleser
Oct 2013
#297
I bet good number of "pragmatic liberals" have a problem sharing DU with a anti-choice cheerleader
idwiyo
Oct 2013
#331
That's the point though, isn't it? Where each of us draws the line is potentially different, and...
stevenleser
Oct 2013
#360
So, it's OK to treat a woman as an object and force her to risk her health and possibly life
idwiyo
Oct 2013
#384
Oh FFS, please dispense with the melodrama and the straw men, no one is buying it.
stevenleser
Oct 2013
#386
You don't have a problem it seems to accept anti-choicers as allies, according to what you wrote.
idwiyo
Oct 2013
#392
The moment they start demanding they get what they want in exchange for their support.
idwiyo
Oct 2013
#396
That's interesting and important. But, as far as my OP, it was about the TOS and what it was saying
Dark n Stormy Knight
Oct 2013
#453
A lot of "Right Wing talking points" are actually true when liberals say them.
gulliver
Oct 2013
#249
It seems that you ascribe to the "first sentence is the key" school of analysis.
riqster
Oct 2013
#257
Damn nice to know that even here on DU anti-choicers can keep advocating their views.
idwiyo
Oct 2013
#387
She, and everyone who thinks anti-choicers have a right to be here are hypocrites.
idwiyo
Oct 2013
#397
Well, she should have thought of the possibilities when she chose to have sex!!!1111
uppityperson
Oct 2013
#398
Unless Admin kicks that anti-abortionist hypocrite off DU, there is little anyone can do.
idwiyo
Oct 2013
#499
Oddly enough, part of the nature of liberal is that there is no hard definition.
IronLionZion
Oct 2013
#405
Anti-choice people shouldn't be allowed here and they shouldn't be allowed to post their views.
Vashta Nerada
Oct 2013
#414
Politically liberal people is functionally defined as supporting Democrats for office.
aikoaiko
Oct 2013
#476
Holy shit! That blog even has the mandatory spelling mistake..so lame. n/t
Fix The Stupid
Oct 2013
#517