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In reply to the discussion: The real problem Snowden revealed, and why Obama is especially dangerous [View all]ProSense
(116,464 posts)42. First
The second, far far more insidious problem with this is that Obama is a Constitutional scholar. That means, you can be sure, there are some ironclad arguments in favor of the procedures that are being followed in the course of collecting this data. We'll get a chance to see those arguments aired when the ACLU case moves through the courts. What Obama has done is far more damaging than what Bush did because he has managed to give this thing a legal framework within which it can be done. I don't know if that kind of damage can be undone. That is the truly disturbing part of this.
...let's be clear about what Obama's arguments would likely support and likely not support. Bush broke the law, and the current programs are not legal versions of his illegal activies.
Another misleading media report implies that warrantless wiretapping is legal.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023026724
Remember whistleblower Thomas Tamm?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023032225
Secondly, if Obama's arguments are "ironclad," then maybe he has a point. Still, his argument may be "ironclad" in support of the program's legality, but if all the concerns being expressed are valid in relation to what we learn about the program, any argument he presents about its Constitutionality will be challenged.
This is a situation in which a balance has to be struck between Constitutionality, national security, privacy and the need to know.
In a country where surveillance has been part of the fabric of law enforcement and national security, with the acknowledgment that it's a necessity, the debate is about how to do it while protecting Americans, classified information and the Constitution.
Also, in the current debate, the very foundation of the FISA court, which has been an institution built on secrecy since it was signed into law by President Carter upon recommendations by the Church Committee, is under attack.
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The real problem Snowden revealed, and why Obama is especially dangerous [View all]
Benton D Struckcheon
Jun 2013
OP
I think it's the dashes or other odd characters in the url that break the 'link' button function. nt
Electric Monk
Jun 2013
#1
Yes. They reveal one part to make it all seem innocent, but really they haven't fessed up to the
dkf
Jun 2013
#6
Your para 2 and para3 has missing sentences between . Fair enough on the ....I used to do same
pkdu
Jun 2013
#21
Most criminals , esp. Federal Crimes are smarter at evading capture than you give them credit for..
pkdu
Jun 2013
#24
You remember when Olbermann had that whole thing on dumb criminals?
Benton D Struckcheon
Jun 2013
#28
"Ellipsis points are used to represent an omission from a direct quotation when it is cited ..."
panzerfaust
Jun 2013
#49
Obama didn't give this a legal structure. That legal structure was put into place
pnwmom
Jun 2013
#16
So when is he proposing to debate and Change it Its been 4 years. Wait and Hope.
bahrbearian
Jun 2013
#26
He has had 4 years to bring this to debate this,he needs a bill to sign,unless he signs blank pages.
bahrbearian
Jun 2013
#33
It's all starting to turn into jello in my head, but I'm pretty sure that passage of
HardTimes99
Jun 2013
#62
Kind of, although technically they weren't collecting in 1997. I think.
Benton D Struckcheon
Jun 2013
#37
There was an article in DISCOVER magazine a few months back that describe how this data is used
rwsanders
Jun 2013
#45
I agree completely, just trying to point out that even "Metadata" isn't innocuous
rwsanders
Jun 2013
#67
I should alert on this- complaining about the link button. No whining about DU. In other news,
silvershadow
Jun 2013
#46
"he has managed to give this thing a legal framework within which it can be done."
KamaAina
Jun 2013
#51
mr "bent on destruction" (how clever), and other true geniuses on Du i suppose...
dionysus
Jun 2013
#59
Obama also signed the NDAA section 1021, providing for the indefinite detention of US citizens
Fire Walk With Me
Jun 2013
#71