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Showing Original Post only (View all)More crackpot thinking from Glenn Greenwald [View all]
Last edited Sat May 11, 2013, 09:34 AM - Edit history (1)
... all digital communications -- meaning telephone calls, emails, online chats and the like -- are automatically recorded and stored and accessible to the government after the fact ...Are All Telephone Calls Recorded And Accessible To The US Government?
By Glenn Greenwald
Saturday 4 May 2013 08.22 EDT
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/04/telephone-calls-recorded-fbi-boston
Wireless survey: 91% of Americans use cell phones
by Chris Foresman - Mar 24 2010, 8:28pm EDT
... The survey of wireless carriers revealed that over 285 million Americans are mobile subscribers, about 91 percent of the total population. That's up 15 million over the same time last year, and growth has slowed somewhat due to market saturation. Those 285 million callers used 1.12 trillion minutes of talk time in the last half of 2009, up 3.4 percent of the same period in 2008. That breaks down to an average of 6.1 billion minutes used per day, or about 21 minutes per person per day ...
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/03/wireless-survey-91-of-americans-have-cell-phones/
Voice apps can strain storage
http://storageMagazine.techtarget.com/magItem/0,291266,sid35_gci1179419,00.html
by: Ray Lucchesi
Issue:Apr2006
... VoIP recording consumes approximately 1 MB of storage per minute of phone conversation ...
http://silvertonconsulting.com/cms1/wp-content/uploads/filebase/archive/article/Voice_apps_strain_storage.pdf
OK. Let's do a little calculation. Storing 6.1 billion cellphone minutes daily at 1 MB of storage per minute is 6.1 billion MB per day or 6.1 million GB per day. That's every day of the year, so the annual storage consumed is about 2.2 trillion GB just to store the messages themselves.
What are the channel requirements? 6.1 billion cellphone minutes daily means that on average you've got over 4 million minutes of cell phone voice message to record every single minute of the day (more in peak times).
That's just cellphone voice messages. Note we're not counting landlines, we're not counting text messages (1.138 trillion annually), and we're not counting emails. Nor are we counting the essential cost of indexing those messages by phone numbers and dates and sorting the indices so they can be found and examined when needed
You're crazy, Glenn
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You're overlooking the technical problems of constantly streaming 4 million conversations
struggle4progress
May 2013
#8
Google precesses 24 petabytes/day. That's one company. Apparently you can't grasp that reality.
leveymg
May 2013
#11
Google does process about a billion queries daily. But they all arrive at the company
struggle4progress
May 2013
#24
The scale of data is roughly the same: Google 24 petabytes/day; ATT network 19 petabytes/day
leveymg
May 2013
#26
Correction, Google does store web pages. check the "cache" link on most search results.
bobduca
May 2013
#91
Yeah, you're right. My mistake. But google doesn't save the whole history of that page:
struggle4progress
May 2013
#95
I think your point basically stands, but the numbers (while still large) are a bit off...
Silent3
May 2013
#2
The OP is WAY, WAY off. At 60KB/minute storage for voice audio, 2.2 trillion min/yr requires
leveymg
May 2013
#7
It depends on the use you plan to make of the recording. It may be that by reducing quality
struggle4progress
May 2013
#12
One shouldn't confuse the radio channel signal with the conversation. When cell phone companies
struggle4progress
May 2013
#82
Nothing but very compressed data ever gets out of your phone into the air, however
Silent3
May 2013
#90
Greenwald seems to be repeating a claim made by a former FBI counter-terrorism agent.
Jim__
May 2013
#4
He indeed reports the claim, then he repeats it in manner indicating that he accepts it:
struggle4progress
May 2013
#14
Google's servers process 24 petabytes per day. That would leave a lot of spare capacity to process
leveymg
May 2013
#10
If you're recording conversations for intelligence analysis purposes, you want the best quality
struggle4progress
May 2013
#20
I wrote a voice recording app for the Commodore 128 back when it was the latest thing
Fumesucker
May 2013
#21
If you've got 4 million conversations coming in at every minute, and you're gonna listen to
struggle4progress
May 2013
#16
No, his claim was that all calls were recorded and stored. I'm simply doing the math here on what
struggle4progress
May 2013
#22
I was responding to a comment made in #6: please do read subthreads when commenting
struggle4progress
May 2013
#25
I didn't argue any such thing: I've actually pointed out that there are too many to listen to
struggle4progress
May 2013
#36
It is of course true, and always has been true, that there are unprincipled people
struggle4progress
May 2013
#43
So where is the proof? All you offer is speculation and with it you are smearing a good name.
cui bono
May 2013
#56
GG's PoV seems to be that if a "former FBI agent" suggests the Administration
struggle4progress
May 2013
#86
You'll never find "most Americans" loudly and vocally oppose anything political. Most Americans
cui bono
May 2013
#88
Well, Tim Clemente is getting lots of attention for making this claim, but actually
struggle4progress
May 2013
#40
OMG. And DU posters are making claims that it isn't true and there's still no reason to believe
cui bono
May 2013
#53
There are currently something like 14K FBI employees. The FBI has no statutory authority
struggle4progress
May 2013
#84
And you're refuting what the FBI agent says based on your ideas of what is possible digitally which
cui bono
May 2013
#87
We've been hearing about this for years. Not sure why the OP is freaking out about the reporting now
cui bono
May 2013
#58
Your theory requires the view that ISPs, landline companies, and wireless communication companies
struggle4progress
May 2013
#39
Installation of the intercept equipment by telcos has been mandatory under CALEA since 1994
leveymg
May 2013
#44
Do you know how a "driftnet" warrant of the type legalized by the '08 Amendment works?
leveymg
May 2013
#69
The EFF suit against Bush Admin officials is still alive, the ATT case was dismissed.
leveymg
May 2013
#74
I did not locate any further FR notices establishing capacity requirements. Following links from one
struggle4progress
May 2013
#83
Oh, the "national security" establishment is certainly out of control: it's been oversized
struggle4progress
May 2013
#42
Redundancy and waste are only two of the three threats: There is institutional jealousy and lust for
byeya
May 2013
#45
Institutional competitiveness can be a good thing for democracy: it means none of them
struggle4progress
May 2013
#48
I think having 2, or more, agencies with the same mission is a waste of money and Cabinent
byeya
May 2013
#57
They tell us they are spying on us to "protect" us from tyranny. Of course, they miss the irony.
Tierra_y_Libertad
May 2013
#32
You hit it on the head. This post is propaganda that works with other similar smears on this board
leveymg
May 2013
#63
The old left activists I knew decades ago would never discuss any concrete plans over the phone
struggle4progress
May 2013
#79
I used to know a guy whose job it was to censor the Western press in Poland.
JDPriestly
May 2013
#81