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Topless Tunisian Activist Amina Tyler: 'Femen Are True Feminists But They Have Insulted Muslims' [View all] kwassa Apr 2013 OP

A very complex issue. nt ZombieHorde Apr 2013 #1

but there's no reason to suspect coercion, right? Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #2

and do you have any proof of any kind of such coercion? kwassa Apr 2013 #3

nah. i just ask the questions.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #4

+1 nt Deep13 Apr 2013 #201

also i run across this kind of stuff.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #5

yeah, but are her parents fundamentalists? kwassa Apr 2013 #6

true they haven't stoned her.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #7

i don't think she ever said "fuck the koran" and she is still saying she fears for her life JI7 Apr 2013 #10

She was beaten by a relative and her phone smashed over it The Straight Story Apr 2013 #20

what is your source for this? kwassa Apr 2013 #23

See my next post (nt) The Straight Story Apr 2013 #25

More: The Straight Story Apr 2013 #24

thanks for the link. kwassa Apr 2013 #71

great link - thanks RainDog Apr 2013 #78

Guess it won't matter. She showed her boobs and insulted some in islam The Straight Story Apr 2013 #80

I can simplify the whole thing RainDog Apr 2013 #85

if she was being coerced why would she still defend what she did and even continue JI7 Apr 2013 #9

well considering she had the words 'fuck the koran' painted on her chest.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #11

there is no about face , and when did she say "fuck the koran" ? she is still defending JI7 Apr 2013 #12

yeh and so was what she *did* .. was insulting to muslims.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #14

oh please, this is like saying one is attacking christians if they criticize Fred Phelps or Robertso JI7 Apr 2013 #16

no she said 'fuck your morals' naked. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #18

this is just ignorant, you think Fred Phelps represents all Christians ? Obama must want gays to die JI7 Apr 2013 #21

i made perfectly clear that i was talking about fundies if you want to deflect.. deflect.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #28

i'm an atheist also, but i can still see people for themselves JI7 Apr 2013 #32

i can see people for themselves too.. and nobody deserves a pedestal. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #41

so she can't disagree with anything they do ? she said she herself does not JI7 Apr 2013 #48

oh she *can* disagree.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #61

She talks about wanting to leave Tunisia as soon as possible - and that's coerced too? bettyellen Apr 2013 #161

OK. That's just nutty. First of all no is claiming all Muslims are the same. cali Apr 2013 #122

she went nowhere near as far as Femen does at mosques in Paris, they HATE Islam.... bettyellen Apr 2013 #159

no she didn't. it was 'fuck your morals'. nothing about the koran. HiPointDem Apr 2013 #97

same difference. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #99

only if you're illiterate. HiPointDem Apr 2013 #114

"fuck the koran" is same difference as "fuck your morals"? that's the stupidest thing you wrote CreekDog Apr 2013 #119

Maybe it was "Fuck the Qur'an" that turned her off them BainsBane Apr 2013 #165

What you have done is proven she is being coerced. The 180 degree turn she has now made is proof. stevenleser Apr 2013 #8

Or maybe she was coerced to take off her top to begin with R B Garr Apr 2013 #13

Which group has a track record of coercion, and which does not? N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #109

She says FEMEN are real feminists. Comrade Grumpy Apr 2013 #15

You've reduced the legitimacy of her argument to your preconceived narrative. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #26

How is that working out for you? stevenleser Apr 2013 #214

I don't see any proof of coercion. It is not an 180 degree turn. kwassa Apr 2013 #50

let's see. She says she's been kidnapped by her family. She has no indepependent means of cali Apr 2013 #169

Right? It's not hard to see what the deal is here. stevenleser Apr 2013 #184

there are people in this thread trying to spin the facts in the most contemptible way cali Apr 2013 #193

So, because she disagrees with you, she's being forced? Scootaloo Apr 2013 #183

How is that working out for you? stevenleser Apr 2013 #208

+1 and fuck the tortured, sick "logic" cali Apr 2013 #210

All the folks who criticized us here owe us an apology. I'm not holding my breath. stevenleser Apr 2013 #211

I'm sure that images like this may have led to her turnaround Number23 Apr 2013 #17

Disgusting? It's awesome! MellowDem Apr 2013 #22

so you think this is awesome also ? JI7 Apr 2013 #29

No, what a horrible red herring... MellowDem Apr 2013 #60

i'm very criticial of ISlam , i think it's stupid when someone feels the need to bring JI7 Apr 2013 #70

You are one of those people who do not understand the difference between criticism and hate speech. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #30

That was hate speech? morningfog Apr 2013 #31

looks very much like the anti arab stuff i see from the right JI7 Apr 2013 #35

Is that hate speech, though? morningfog Apr 2013 #36

when does hate speech imply it should not be permitted ? have you seen the tea bagger protests ? JI7 Apr 2013 #43

Who defines what "hate speech" is... MellowDem Apr 2013 #67

Did you finally manage to learn the difference between Islam and Islamism? idwiyo Apr 2013 #181

Clearly that image goes beyond criticism of Islam... Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #27

How would you describe this one? polly7 Apr 2013 #33

I feel that the man in the photo should probably be castrated. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #40

I hope you aren't serious. morningfog Apr 2013 #46

I'm not. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #74

No. polly7 Apr 2013 #51

Yes, that was hyperbole on my part. Maybe he should just be kicked really hard in the groin. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #53

That is in front of a mosque as an old fart tries kicking for the first time in decades. Coyotl Apr 2013 #95

Explain the divide. How is it hate speech? morningfog Apr 2013 #39

It's a racist physical caricature of Arab men. The equivelant of black face. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #45

Is that hate speech? Offensive does not equal hate speech. morningfog Apr 2013 #49

It is in fact the very definition of hate speech. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #52

No it isn't. morningfog Apr 2013 #54

Yes, it is. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #57

What violence is provoked other than the assholes who like to kill morningfog Apr 2013 #68

Violent outcome is not necessitated for hate speech. It is simply a possible outcome. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #73

absolute bullshit. ugh. cali Apr 2013 #124

No, it's a caricature of Iranian mullahs.... MellowDem Apr 2013 #84

I think you've made it pretty clear that you hate Muslims. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #86

Wow, so I hate Muslims because you suck at arguing your points? MellowDem Apr 2013 #89

we could start with that hate filled post that was hidden... Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #91

It was hidden, but not hate filled... MellowDem Apr 2013 #107

Your God complex is adorable. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #117

What makes you think I think of myself as a god? MellowDem Apr 2013 #123

God complex does not mean you think you are a God Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #136

Ascribing godlike qualities to myself like "infallibility"... MellowDem Apr 2013 #140

I am not having a discussion with you. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #143

Obviously, you're a bully... MellowDem Apr 2013 #150

... Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #154

Yes, well Gravitycollapse's Guide to Proper Ladylike Protests is THE book! riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #157

awww i have a stalker. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #158

Nothing cute about anti-free speech, anti-women shit. riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #160

It's always funny when people confuse dissent with anti-free-speech. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #163

Someone challenging you is not stalking. Don't like it? Don't post on a discussion board. cali Apr 2013 #170

twigs don't count as sticks snooper2 Apr 2013 #156

"that image doesn't just insult Muslims. It is insulting to Arabic people in general." Number23 Apr 2013 #62

Uhh, how? MellowDem Apr 2013 #83

"It's a caricature of Iranian mullahs" Number23 Apr 2013 #92

Sharia law is heavily associated with Iran... MellowDem Apr 2013 #105

Sharia law is used throughout many Islamic countries and is not "associated" with only one country Number23 Apr 2013 #120

So what if it is offensive. That is the point. morningfog Apr 2013 #34

I'm sure your post was a slam dunk in your head Number23 Apr 2013 #56

She offended. She got offended. People take themselves and their myths too seriously. morningfog Apr 2013 #64

As some people do that with trolling. Number23 Apr 2013 #66

Is that how you end discussions? morningfog Apr 2013 #69

Yep. Especially when it's obvious the person is just trying to start shit Number23 Apr 2013 #72

She is under duress. She says she was beaten and kidnapped. Gad, what part of any of that is cali Apr 2013 #172

You're one to ask about a lack of understanding. Number23 Apr 2013 #175

I didn't say it wasn't offensive to some people. I do say it's not hate speech cali Apr 2013 #176

And where did *I* say it was hate speech? Number23 Apr 2013 #178

was this piss christ done in a protest claiming to support Christians ? JI7 Apr 2013 #180

uh, that is utterly irrelevant. yikes. critical thinking. try it. cali Apr 2013 #191

no it isn't, that's why i can see the difference between JI7 Apr 2013 #195

No, it was fundie asshole family members kidnapping her & beating the shit out of her. backscatter712 Apr 2013 #94

Feminists should insult bigoted misogynist religions... MellowDem Apr 2013 #19

are there only Atheist Feminists ? JI7 Apr 2013 #37

No, there are religions that aren't misogynistic... MellowDem Apr 2013 #47

it's dishonest to say Amina was protesting against religion itself JI7 Apr 2013 #55

I didn't say she was... nt MellowDem Apr 2013 #76

"They have insulted Muslims" Quantess Apr 2013 #38

My sentiments exactly. Some day those Muslims who get offended by living in this century morningfog Apr 2013 #44

Exactly!!!!! get the red out Apr 2013 #177

+100. nt Skip Intro Apr 2013 #63

Thank you. GoneOffShore Apr 2013 #106

Also, from the the article you linked: Does she support femen? The Straight Story Apr 2013 #42

yeah, but according to some she is being coerced to say that JI7 Apr 2013 #58

Yes, she does. kwassa Apr 2013 #59

based on everything she has done and said i think i understand her JI7 Apr 2013 #65

It is tough to get much nuance in 3-word slogans painted on the body. Reductio ad absurdum. kwassa Apr 2013 #77

This is a problem theorized about quite a bit in academia. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #81

"Fuck Your Morals" is particularly inscrutable. kwassa Apr 2013 #87

Are you a Professor of Women's Studies, or something similar, at a University? nt Zorra Apr 2013 #101

I am not a professor. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #167

We had this exact same problem with Occupy protests. No matter how simple or obvious Zorra Apr 2013 #104

Actually, no, I still don't know what "Fuck your morals" means. All the Femen protesters seem to use kwassa Apr 2013 #108

In a nutshell, Femen does not want religions, and religon controlled states or persons, Zorra Apr 2013 #111

I don't understand how you cannot know what they're saying. It couldn't be clearer. cali Apr 2013 #125

What on earth is clear about it? Who are they addressing when it is written in English? kwassa Apr 2013 #129

I don't continue discouses with people who or either deliberately obtuse or cali Apr 2013 #134

Bye! Suit yourself. kwassa Apr 2013 #138

Uhm, see post #111? Zorra's has spelled it out for you? riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #141

Are you by any chance a fundamentalist evangelical Christian? nt Zorra Apr 2013 #144

not even close. kwassa Apr 2013 #145

Next guess: Lifetime practicing Catholic born into the Church? nt Zorra Apr 2013 #147

You're getting colder. kwassa Apr 2013 #148

Last guess, I promise: Practicing liberal Protestant? Zorra Apr 2013 #152

Bingo! kwassa Apr 2013 #153

You are obviously religious, and I was thinking that you are experiencing cognitive dissonance in Zorra Apr 2013 #155

"Cognitive dissonance" seems to be the buzz phrase of the past couple weeks. kwassa Apr 2013 #162

It's called context. simple really. cali Apr 2013 #173

You really don't understand? That's sad. Seriously sad. Unless of course it's deliberate... idwiyo Apr 2013 #186

See post #104. Zorra Apr 2013 #133

well said. I am now backing out of this thread or to put it another way cali Apr 2013 #135

That should make this thread a little saner. kwassa Apr 2013 #139

no. it is your presence here and your Orwellian take on this situation cali Apr 2013 #174

Also, in the title of the OP. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #103

This version of Amina's interview with CANAL+ is more clear. kwassa Apr 2013 #75

Thanks for this one, too RainDog Apr 2013 #79

"My cousin broke my cell phone and beat me." Amina's body must be a serious source of Zorra Apr 2013 #82

Her father is much more supportive than her cousin. From the same interview: kwassa Apr 2013 #88

Imagine being in a culture where a girl thinks she is lucky... Marrah_G Apr 2013 #102

I believe that I would either have escaped to France by the age of 12, Zorra Apr 2013 #127

Novak was so culturally clueless RainDog Apr 2013 #90

Frank, on the other hand was acutely...microscopically, you might say...aware of culture. nt Zorra Apr 2013 #96

i haven't been able to find the full video anywhere. all the full videos on youtube say HiPointDem Apr 2013 #98

Here's one of about 6 minutes muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #100

Yes... this article is more clear and accurate. Thanks n/t Catherina Apr 2013 #113

Post removed Post removed Apr 2013 #93

There should be no surprise here... rexcat Apr 2013 #110

The video in post 100 does not support the author's assertion Catherina Apr 2013 #112

That isn't the flag that they burned Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #115

Yeah you're right about the flag though they're both from the same family Catherina Apr 2013 #118

Protesters in other cities did write Amina on their bodies, or held up signs with her name. kwassa Apr 2013 #116

So what's your point? We know they were protesting in solidarity with Amina riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #121

My point is that she was essentially correct in saying that protesters were painting her name kwassa Apr 2013 #126

She couldn't more clearly be under duress and that includes duress from her father cali Apr 2013 #128

Duress from her father? and where do you have the slightest proof of that? kwassa Apr 2013 #130

It's right there. cali Apr 2013 #131

You read more into parts of that interview than I see there. kwassa Apr 2013 #137

wow. would it make OK with if her cousin just hit her once and smashed cali Apr 2013 #171

And you're essentially saying her word can't be trusted because she might be scared. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #164

she is scared. she says she's scared. she's been beaten and threatened. fuck I hate denial and cali Apr 2013 #168

So when she says at least her father didn't "kill her", that's supportive? riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #142

"we can express ourselves in favor of women's rights" is something he also said. kwassa Apr 2013 #146

You are really working hard to make her situation okay. riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #149

No, I am just saying there is a lot we don't know. kwassa Apr 2013 #151

But liberals aren't supposed to criticize Islam get the red out Apr 2013 #179

Why are you trying to misinterpret what she actually said? idwiyo Apr 2013 #188

The way she said it in French Catherina Apr 2013 #132

It's important to note that these protesters are completely missusing the term Jihad... Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #166

How are they misusing it? idwiyo Apr 2013 #189

I think a better question is how are they using it correctly? Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #190

As you are the one who said FEMEN is misusing the term, its up to you to explain why. idwiyo Apr 2013 #198

I just gave you the most fundamental reason. They aren't Muslim. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #199

Muslims are the only ones who are allowed to use that word? Is this a new universal law? idwiyo Apr 2013 #200

Non-Muslims cannot wage Jihad. Unless definitions and histories do not matter to you. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #202

Literal meaning of Arabic word "jihad" is "struggle" Anyone can use that word in any language idwiyo Apr 2013 #205

FEMEN's usage of "Jihad" is in direct reference to the Islam they protest. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #206

Read my post above for the definition and usage of word "jihad". BTW, did you finally manage idwiyo Apr 2013 #207

Thank you for the translation. idwiyo Apr 2013 #187

Excuse me Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #182

A Western libertarian insults a Muslim Coyotl Apr 2013 #185

Just some more input from Muslim women for anyone interested. redqueen Apr 2013 #192

I didn't read the second article but my problem with the first cali Apr 2013 #194

are you talking about the head covering ? it is a choice in TUnisia and europe JI7 Apr 2013 #196

No I'm not. cali Apr 2013 #197

There is a difference between insulting Muslims and insulting Islam. Deep13 Apr 2013 #203

In your post #75 you provide a link to an article you think is more clear. Why don't you add it to idwiyo Apr 2013 #204

How is that working out for you? stevenleser Apr 2013 #209

Just fine. How is working out for you? kwassa Apr 2013 #212

Great, because I turned out to be right! nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #213