Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: Why the "My bad sex wasn't rape" editorial is so utterly, utterly vile. [View all]patrice
(47,992 posts)277. I agree with the article and I think it is being mischaracterized here.
One of the main quotes, used as the basis of OP's rejection of the points made in the article, is removed from its context and, thus, falsified:
We should never blame victims of sexual assault because they are in no way to blame for the crimes perpetrated against them. At the same time, it is not helpful to label every murky sexual encounter as rape or to say that anything any woman states is rape is, in fact, rape. To say so is to render the word meaningless.
Certainly by far a huge majority of women do know the difference between a sexual mistake and rape, so they don't say they have been raped, when, instead, things just didn't go how they wanted them to go in a sexual encounter.
However, we impute all sorts of other kinds of mistakes to people, why not this one?
Does OP intend to say that at no time ever has any woman ever said or implied yes, then realized it was a mistake, and, yet, NEVER sought redress of her disappointments, her mistaken expectations, in vengeance? and what more powerful settling of scores might there be than the social humiliation of a rape accusation? Even if instances of this sort are only a very few a decade, isn't a woman's right to justice predicated on everyone's right to justice, including men's? And if that isn't so, then what feminists are demanding is a privilege, the privilege to be wrong and have that not matter, which is the same privilege that we struggle against in our male dominated culture.
Though we as women usually collectively intend to be valid in such accusations, if it doesn't matter if we make a mistake and support a false rape accusation, isn't that the same type of injustice as rape is? Isn't that the same as the powerful taking unwanted advantage of the less powerful and, thus, a negation our own demands for justice?
I think Anna March's remarks about female sexual agency point to an absolutely vital aspect of womanhood that contributes to an autonomous identity that I personally feel is missing from much of this discussion thus far. That's female identity that is not a reaction of some sort, not limited to victimization, an identity that recognizes emergent potentials that are not just pathological iterations of the bad things that happened in one's past.
It's a mistake to characterize what March is saying as some pathology rooted in her own early history of abuse. Though that's a possibility, it isn't anywhere nearly an absolute, a pathology can exist but also not necessarily be THE determining factor in a given behavior, because some people do learn to elicit change in themselves and in their lives and it's not be a good idea to say that just because others have not done that, no one can, because that assumption suggests that the whole discussion of who we are as women isn't about anything that has differentiated itself from whatever preceded it at all.
I think women do have something feminine to offer, something relatively new evoked by the freedom to speak independently and by the courage to live honestly by the consequences of saying either yes or no.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
420 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
Why the "My bad sex wasn't rape" editorial is so utterly, utterly vile. [View all]
redqueen
Mar 2013
OP
what bothers me most about that article is the implication of the title
La Lioness Priyanka
Mar 2013
#1
She is being a good little girl just like her father taught her to be. You know, always protect the
LiberalLoner
Mar 2013
#17
ugh. sorry to hear that. i do agree with you that it's a good girl syndrome
La Lioness Priyanka
Mar 2013
#21
Lol well he is a homeless alcoholic at this point so, fail in general too....
LiberalLoner
Mar 2013
#133
She's only been published widely 3x: writing about her "boobs" , Dad as a lover
bettyellen
Mar 2013
#109
we watch a lot of people validate the rape culture and sexism for their own personal reasons. nt
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#213
Not to mention she describes her experiences with her father raping her as a 4 year old as
LiberalLoner
Mar 2013
#2
Thank you so much. Oh I hope it helps. Been feeling like we are losing the fight lately. Think
LiberalLoner
Mar 2013
#298
thank you jury 6. this is jsut another way for men to work at derailing these conversations.
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#29
What the hell is your problem? Normally I'm not one to jump on people but WTF?
nomorenomore08
Mar 2013
#193
Apparently the OP was, earlier in life. And is now trying to deal with that.
nomorenomore08
Mar 2013
#199
You do know this 'won't someone shut those wimminz up!' shit has been addressed in ATA.
redqueen
Mar 2013
#225
i think durham said it exactly right. reading you absurdity on how du should run, by such a newbie
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#289
no. they are picking apart her offensively hurtful and problematic article justifying, excusing rape
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#290
no. you did personally insult. and you try to take it further. but, lack ownership.
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#376
you cannot actually argue what is being said on here so your defense of the author fails
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#412
...what happened in Steubenville, with Natalia on “Girls,” and with me... all rape is ridiculous.
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#9
yes. and the hyperbole from duers accusing others of outrage with all the trash
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#31
yes. i get it. SOME men get off on the pain that it causes. it is after all how they define their
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#49
thats not bullshit, but Im wondering how You know what every porn watcher thinks.
Whisp
Mar 2013
#351
trying to conflate adult porn with underage shit is like trying to conflate adult sex w/child abuse
Warren DeMontague
Mar 2013
#352
I didn't assume you agreed with it... but I do disagree with you about women's (or girls')
redqueen
Mar 2013
#13
Perhaps the author was writing about herself, rather than to your specifications
cthulu2016
Mar 2013
#11
Yep. These kinds of attacks do damage to those of us that care about rape as an issue.
Generation_Why
Mar 2013
#35
another derail. tell women how if they speak out, you, a man, will no longer be able to support her
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#52
this is just another of the insults on du. being told that we are to continually address and educate
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#32
Which is just another example of why rape culture and the patriarchy are so successful...
redqueen
Mar 2013
#92
Some people choose to express themselves in a way that's not suitable to other's agendas...
Generation_Why
Mar 2013
#18
the point you and others miss. she is directing it to society, to women, to girls and to rapists...
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#23
about the same amount of courage that clarence thomas has on issues
La Lioness Priyanka
Mar 2013
#45
Just curious. In the 60s and 70s, "free love" was the ideal. How many people here
McCamy Taylor
Mar 2013
#30
Agreeing to sex that wasn't all that fun is not rape. Wanna know what rape is?
LiberalLoner
Mar 2013
#41
not to mention 60s ad 70s did not even have a word for date rape. was just the way it was.
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#97
I don't see it that quite that way. Nothing is free, and that 'free love' had a price to pay
Whisp
Mar 2013
#168
it really is not even about her. it is about those on du that refuse to think maybe there may be an
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#56
If some guy had written this stuff, I would be disgusted, would utterly condemn him,
Nye Bevan
Mar 2013
#106
Isn't that what everyone in this thread is doing? And if they aren't doing that, then why is it
patrice
Mar 2013
#283
k and r--thank you, redqueen I did not have the strength to get through that mess.
niyad
Mar 2013
#43
Thanks redqueen. I finished the other thread, got called away before I could respond
riderinthestorm
Mar 2013
#47
It is far, far worse. Because in rape culture, their voices are amplified exponentially.
redqueen
Mar 2013
#74
Yes, it's easy to see that she might have been just writing shit to get clicks.
redqueen
Mar 2013
#82
K&R Thank you for taking the time to do this very unpleasant task. n/t
Egalitarian Thug
Mar 2013
#78
sexual awesomeness and wallet. see, not hard. and rather useless. not to mention the damage it
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#139
reading comprehension is your friend. to go to all that bother and frame your issue so poorly
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#142
its not her personal story when she extrapolates from herself to others
La Lioness Priyanka
Mar 2013
#145
more insults? not an ability to actually address what you disagree with. just lazy insults?
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#291
lol. now i am a stalker. you good. i do not think there is a post, without personal attack. nt
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#379
Wow. Really? That guy didn't even understand the OP, and said "shame on you"...
redqueen
Mar 2013
#333
Agreed. And who are the fuckers at Salon that thought it was a good idea to post this on their site
Evoman
Mar 2013
#151
i believe there is research that states it is a real issue, a community outcry there is an issue.
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#181
that would have been the point in the article and how important it was to police the community and
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#187
If you are going to say "even more often", you should have proper citations to prove it
riqster
Mar 2013
#252
Sexual counseling from someone whose lost her virginity at age 4 via her own father
rocktivity
Mar 2013
#176
Yeah, it's the idea that what the other person (usually female) wants doesn't matter.
nomorenomore08
Mar 2013
#202
"No one is out there telling women that they have to feel that they were raped" is a horrible line.
Igel
Mar 2013
#241
Thank you. That stuff doesn't hurt me anymore. Hearing people support rape or
LiberalLoner
Mar 2013
#404
well, redq. i saw a thread that cheered the article. and i see a thread that challenges it.
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#318
Or they tell us to take the discussion to some man-free zone and be good little
LiberalLoner
Mar 2013
#322
ah, i was told just this morning, again, it is my "tone". lol. 'pose to be nicer. nt
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#325
Yeah... what I don't get is how posts calling out rapists, or rape culture, or sexual harassment
redqueen
Mar 2013
#340
Maybe there is a reason for that...was just watching a crime show and heard
LiberalLoner
Mar 2013
#343
That's what I'm trying to figure out. That's why I wondered if they might
LiberalLoner
Mar 2013
#411
I'm not sure her father raping her at four could be called "a sexually bad experience."
LiberalLoner
Mar 2013
#278
Was that in the article? I don't suppose it matters that it wasn't if it's true, so I'll edit the
patrice
Mar 2013
#281
Oh, no, it was another article she wrote, one of three she has had published.
LiberalLoner
Mar 2013
#282
Thank you for the information. No doubt about it, childhood experiences, especially of
patrice
Mar 2013
#284
Thank you. I've been there and find it triggering. I'm also a bit suspicious
LiberalLoner
Mar 2013
#321
at a time when so many are questioning whether raping a gilr that is unconscious is really rape, you
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#293
Would you ever dare to say that people who claim to be mugged ought not to be taken at their word
redqueen
Mar 2013
#337
It's so hurtful. I can't fathom the jollies that some of these folks get out
myrna minx
Mar 2013
#398
I had the same revulsion for what I call the good girl role, making sure not to
LiberalLoner
Mar 2013
#381