General Discussion

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)

48. Yes, all Americans do, however indirectly

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 02:15 AM

Mar 2013

But leaving the Catholic Church is a whole lot easier than leaving a country, and guess what, you still would be under some other form of government. You can choose to leave religion completely if you'd like, you can't with governments, and all governments do bad things obviously, but you don't get to choose to live in anarchy.

Comparing leaving a church with leaving a country is a terrible analogy. Quite a few people don't have the resources to leave the country, even if they wanted to. The barrier to exiting the country is several hundred times greater than leaving a church.

And yes, as an American, I do indeed help validate and empower my government, however indirectly, though as I said before, I have far less of a choice in the matter than with religion, and the barriers are far greater.

It's the ease with which one can come and go with religion that makes it less justifiable to remain a member of one that you fundamentally disagree with. At the very least, it's pretty intellctually dishonest.

And at least with the US government I can vote against certain policies. Most religions don't even give you that.

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Catholics are as much to blame for clergy abuse as you are to blame for the WARS [View all] Cronus Protagonist Mar 2013 OP

Close but here is where the argument fails. Kalidurga Mar 2013 #1

It's not quite the same, but citizens can resist DerekG Mar 2013 #3

Yes this is true, I have been to many protests Kalidurga Mar 2013 #4

Oh, I would have left the Church long ago had I been a member DerekG Mar 2013 #12

I think most people aren't confrontational simply because they don't have time... Kalidurga Mar 2013 #16

Third Party?... lame54 Mar 2013 #121

So a Catholic child is guilty for the sins of where their parents take them to church? onehandle Mar 2013 #5

no. Kalidurga Mar 2013 #7

+1000 As someone who was raised Catholic, most of the shumcks on DU don't know what they are Katashi_itto Mar 2013 #93

Every child is guilty at birth according to them. n/t Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #100

Specifically, we can decide whether and how much money to put in those collection plates. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #9

Sounds like a point in a rant to my youngest daughter Kalidurga Mar 2013 #10

and if you pay your taxes, you're supporting droning. The difference is that when you put $ HiPointDem Mar 2013 #22

The law requires that you pay your taxes. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #33

as i said before, what you put in the collection plate in a local church goes mostly to support the HiPointDem Mar 2013 #44

Some religions really don't have hierarchies. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #133

Coersion quakerboy Mar 2013 #135

Maybe it's like donating to Obama so he can sell weapons to Bahrain to shoot labor organizers. limpyhobbler Mar 2013 #24

Well, perhaps it's not a perfect metaphor or comparison Cronus Protagonist Mar 2013 #15

No it's not perfect Kalidurga Mar 2013 #19

Here's where your argument fails... Drunken Irishman Mar 2013 #23

+1 patrice Mar 2013 #86

No; you can't just arrive in another country and say "I live here now" muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #105

You can choose to have no religion Gore1FL Mar 2013 #108

Catholics don't decide to get baptized -- but they are free to leave. pnwmom Mar 2013 #25

Thank you! Drunken Irishman Mar 2013 #34

You mean you're not willing to give up the privilege BainsBane Mar 2013 #41

+199,999 n/t Catherina Mar 2013 #56

Subject yourself to the poverty the rest of the world lives in? MattSh Mar 2013 #94

Try to follow the point BainsBane Mar 2013 #124

Catholics do in fact contribute to the 'Holy See' each year on the Sunday nearest June 29 Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #110

+++++++++ Exactly. Lionessa Mar 2013 #43

There are a LOT more good and decent Catholics than there are bad apples. BlueMTexpat Mar 2013 #95

Is there something I said that is not true? Kalidurga Mar 2013 #102

We don't have to stay in the place we were born. Millions of people have left sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #111

You Do, However, Decide Where to Live On the Road Mar 2013 #118

Living without government is basically impossible, Somalia aside Fumesucker Mar 2013 #2

You can certainly pick your government... Drunken Irishman Mar 2013 #32

But anywhere you can go will have a government, some government. Fumesucker Mar 2013 #73

Catholics support and validate the Catholic Church... MellowDem Mar 2013 #6

Then you supported and validated Bush. Drunken Irishman Mar 2013 #31

Yes, all Americans do, however indirectly MellowDem Mar 2013 #48

droning is the official policy of the US government. pedophilia is not the official policy of the HiPointDem Mar 2013 #58

True, there are many things I can't vote against... MellowDem Mar 2013 #64

and catholics violate those official policies en masse. and catholics are more liberal HiPointDem Mar 2013 #68

They can't contribute to its liberalization... MellowDem Mar 2013 #125

Its encumbent upon us to create a system of healthy questioning and safety. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2013 #8

I do hope that jury members and hosts think on what Skinner posted in ATA. Lady Freedom Returns Mar 2013 #11

Tithing is voluntary. nt Deep13 Mar 2013 #13

I know a few Catholics - none of them tithe Cronus Protagonist Mar 2013 #17

That's my point. Deep13 Mar 2013 #30

Taxes are not mandatory... Drunken Irishman Mar 2013 #36

you are REALLY reaching Skittles Mar 2013 #89

It is not legally tenable to be Stateless, that is citizenship of someplace is mandatory. Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #112

I'm not a martyr. Deep13 Mar 2013 #126

I don't, though. Cronus Protagonist Mar 2013 #98

What makes you think I was talking about you? nt Deep13 Mar 2013 #128

Your post is tied to mine as a reply Cronus Protagonist Mar 2013 #131

You're not a very nice person, are you? Deep13 Mar 2013 #136

No, and neither are you Cronus Protagonist Mar 2013 #138

Ehhhhh... TlalocW Mar 2013 #14

EHHH... Drunken Irishman Mar 2013 #28

Yes, most do have to pay taxes... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2013 #37

there are plenty of tax resisters in the us who've chosen *not* to pay taxes, for various HiPointDem Mar 2013 #50

so, you can not pay your taxes... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2013 #78

actually, the consequences you list happen to few tax resisters. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #127

Yeah, because leaving a country TlalocW Mar 2013 #40

no one said they're easy. but you folks said they're impossible and the comparison is false. but HiPointDem Mar 2013 #51

No, Pedophilia is not the official policy of the Catholic Church... TlalocW Mar 2013 #61

no, it's been *secret* policy. like our *secret* torture policies and covert operations. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #75

Oh, it is a secret policy... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2013 #81

and the policy outlined in the document you mention isn't a policy of protecting pedophiles. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #82

I think you may be mixed up... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2013 #84

yes, sorry, that was tlaloc. but as that document was the basis for the claim that the HiPointDem Mar 2013 #91

"Pedophilia is not the official policy of the catholic church"... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2013 #80

yes, it has been covered up by some in positions of power. but that is not the same thing. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #96

It is my official policy not to post on DU. Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #114

Nonsense. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #132

One thing is for sure, the haters are going to hate. Lady Freedom Returns Mar 2013 #18

yeah, I give up liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #69

That is the best way to handle it that I've heard. Lady Freedom Returns Mar 2013 #74

So you're saying you're going to ignore the Catholic hierarchy from now on? muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #106

Too bad this place is now an anti-Catholic magnet jsr Mar 2013 #77

It will pass. Lady Freedom Returns Mar 2013 #137

There are over 1 billion catholics on this planet. A small minority are to blame for child abuse. phleshdef Mar 2013 #20

+1. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #55

Wrong. Going to a chuch is a choice and like I told a friend of mine, kas125 Mar 2013 #21

This message was self-deleted by its author Drunken Irishman Mar 2013 #26

+1 Union Scribe Mar 2013 #47

That is an incredibly offensive and stupid accusation to make. King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #99

I was wondering this today Notafraidtoo Mar 2013 #27

No way. That is a terrible comparison. I feel responsible for what Bush did even though I rhett o rick Mar 2013 #29

You can leave America... Drunken Irishman Mar 2013 #38

Again the comparison is bad. I know a number of people that have left the church. rhett o rick Mar 2013 #107

Why is it such a terrible comparison? Catherina Mar 2013 #62

But the comparison is terrible. Bush started in about 2002 and we replaced him in 2008 rhett o rick Mar 2013 #109

I still maintain nothing big changed, especially in matters of foreign policy Catherina Mar 2013 #122

What country did you become a citizen of? Because unless you formally reject your US Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #115

It's done a lot more than people think Catherina Mar 2013 #119

Bullshit! obxhead Mar 2013 #35

You marched! Drunken Irishman Mar 2013 #39

Yes I did obxhead Mar 2013 #42

Have you ever seen "Google"? Union Scribe Mar 2013 #45

oooooooooooo obxhead Mar 2013 #52

oooooo moving the goalposts! Union Scribe Mar 2013 #60

Seconds to find? obxhead Mar 2013 #71

You claimed no knowledge of any Catholic group Union Scribe Mar 2013 #79

Google SNAP n/t joesdaughter Mar 2013 #49

SNAP! obxhead Mar 2013 #54

Here are links to Catholic protests of clergy abuse kwassa Mar 2013 #117

I love the "I've never seen meme" BainsBane Mar 2013 #53

Wow. I think I love you Catherina Mar 2013 #63

Thanks BainsBane Mar 2013 #70

Show one picture obxhead Mar 2013 #72

why, are you unable to read? BainsBane Mar 2013 #88

I like your post. Notafraidtoo Mar 2013 #83

I have a few theories BainsBane Mar 2013 #90

Thank you Notafraidtoo Mar 2013 #101

DU-ers pretend all of the time that what they don't know doesn't matter. This started getting bad patrice Mar 2013 #129

Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #46

denying pedophilia is repulsive BainsBane Mar 2013 #57

Touching through clothing or inserting one's penis - rape is rape. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #67

There is something that many are not thinking about when they bash Catholics. Lady Freedom Returns Mar 2013 #59

Before clicking this thread, I wouldn't have thought so. JVS Mar 2013 #65

The issue is that we are to blame for our country's wars. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #66

That is just silly. Becoming a citizen of another country is very difficult, ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #76

Yeah, and I feel guilty for both things. sofa king Mar 2013 #85

No. Cronus Protagonist Mar 2013 #103

no one is forced to give money to a church Skittles Mar 2013 #87

I would never continue to support an organization if I found out Apophis Mar 2013 #92

"The organization" is huge, and not a strict command hierarchy. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #97

Not quite. People vote against war, people protest in the streets against war, people Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2013 #104

Oh come on Tom Rinaldo Mar 2013 #113

65% of Catholic Charities cash comes from the US government. Less that 3% from parishes. Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #116

To recap and expand on our exchange on another thread Tom Rinaldo Mar 2013 #120

Drop the church! If your diocese is hiding a molester or just absorpbed one from another diocese, rustydog Mar 2013 #123

And, of course, when you do, you'll increase the support for social & economic justice that you just patrice Mar 2013 #130

Really? 99Forever Mar 2013 #134