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jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
53. Two things
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:33 AM
Feb 2013

1. There can be positive law which impacts the ability to contract or addresses specific types of contracts. The landlord tenant code is a good example of a set of statutes that specify certain rights and limits on what can be done in that context. Another example is where a contract relates to illegal subject matter - you can't have an enforcible contract to buy heroin or sell slaves.

2. Sometimes a contract will be so out there as to be unconscionable. The thing is, that category is a lot narrower than every teed off party to a contract would like to believe. Courts don't care if a contract is a bad deal or commercially unreasonable. In order to be unconscionable, the contract has to be pretty much designed to shaft anyone who signs it.

Are the types of carriage contracts used by cruise lines unconscionable? Probably not. Again, it's not like we're talking about the only bread seller in a hungry town. There are a lot of inherent risks in traveling on a ship. A ship can sink and kill everyone aboard. That's not some kind of unknown event. So, the proposition is this - you can take a cruise in comfortable surroundings with a lot of entertainment and food, go to warm places and drink rum, and have a whole crew looking after you for prices that are pretty attractive relative to, say, land based resort hotels. Part of the bargain is that one of the reasons they can do that at a low price is that everyone agrees not to hold the cruise line responsible for a lot of things that can go wrong - and are really no great surprise that they can go wrong.

PTSD has physical manifestations. A good crew of lawyers could file a MADem Feb 2013 #1
The offer of a free cruise is in my opinion simply sneering contempt snagglepuss Feb 2013 #2
I agree. They'll probably raise their booze prices on other trips to MADem Feb 2013 #9
so what would be acceptable? rdking647 Feb 2013 #3
It's not so much the engine fire, riqster Feb 2013 #4
Twenty grand per, plus refund and expense pay outs--that'll teach 'em to not pull that shit again. MADem Feb 2013 #8
taking them off teh vessel wasnt a real option rdking647 Feb 2013 #10
Sure it was; that thing was dead in the water. MADem Feb 2013 #19
4000 people.... over open water to another ship rdking647 Feb 2013 #22
All might not have wanted to go, but those that wanted to go should have been MADem Feb 2013 #42
They could have used the lifeboats Politicalboi Feb 2013 #54
Easier--and way safer--to just do a "tender transfer." MADem Feb 2013 #58
The what is the point? jberryhill Feb 2013 #57
Not if you do a tender transfer. You could do it fairly quickly. MADem Feb 2013 #59
When the stabilizers are working jberryhill Feb 2013 #62
What beggars belief is that when they finally got on land snagglepuss Feb 2013 #14
Also, from what some of the passengers were saying, MADem Feb 2013 #72
That sounds reasonable to me me b zola Feb 2013 #17
Sure, I could go that high, easily! MADem Feb 2013 #20
Whatever will HURT leftynyc Feb 2013 #12
the "mechanical failure" is apparently result of trying to save money dixiegrrrrl Feb 2013 #18
...which will also fail on other procedural grounds jberryhill Feb 2013 #28
Well, time will tell. We'll just have to see. MADem Feb 2013 #30
I didn't say these people didn't suffer jberryhill Feb 2013 #34
If they all sue individually, they don't need to worry about a class action suit limitation. MADem Feb 2013 #41
I think you are too ready to say "Don't even try." jberryhill Feb 2013 #44
Very informative post. Thanks. n/t tammywammy Feb 2013 #45
The jury in the Court of Public Opinion is already weighing in on Carnival's offer, and they're MADem Feb 2013 #48
People DIED in the Costa Concordia jberryhill Feb 2013 #55
But that was "over there." Not here, in good old America! MADem Feb 2013 #56
This is just another day in the life, for Carnival jberryhill Feb 2013 #60
The ship wasn't American or in America jberryhill Feb 2013 #61
I realize that, but Carnival markets to a US audience. MADem Feb 2013 #63
jberryhill had a good post about this yesterday... SidDithers Feb 2013 #5
Will they stay in business? Spirochete Feb 2013 #6
it may mean a SMALL hit to business in the short term rdking647 Feb 2013 #7
Then they'll keep on having screw ups customerserviceguy Feb 2013 #32
So -each passenger can sue leftynyc Feb 2013 #11
The terms of the contract probably require the guest to agree to hold Carnival harmless Bake Feb 2013 #15
Someome needs to watch.. 1983law Feb 2013 #66
People need to find a good lawyer versed in maritime law nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #13
Which actions?...nt SidDithers Feb 2013 #16
Clauses like these often do not hold up. cbayer Feb 2013 #21
whose law do you use rdking647 Feb 2013 #23
It's US owned and flagged, no? cbayer Feb 2013 #24
Bahamian flagged nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #26
The Jones Act is a bad law and should be repealed anyway. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2013 #64
Repealing the Jones Act would allow ships to use cheaper labor and ships build davidpdx Feb 2013 #67
So we can use cheaper labor nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #68
it's not just "cheaper labour" Spider Jerusalem Feb 2013 #70
Maritime law and treaties nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #25
And there is even a treaty on maritime personal injury claims jberryhill Feb 2013 #29
question: joeunderdog Feb 2013 #47
Two things jberryhill Feb 2013 #53
They'll just file for bankruptcy..... llmart Feb 2013 #27
+1 CrispyQ Feb 2013 #33
Are you referring to the membership in the 1% club? llmart Feb 2013 #36
More like the .01% club - membership in the "artificial entities" club - CrispyQ Feb 2013 #43
No one will file for bankruptcy. former9thward Feb 2013 #37
They already own most of them. Princess is part of Carnival... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #51
Lawyers can get around those agreements BainsBane Feb 2013 #31
I agree with you. llmart Feb 2013 #35
How much? jberryhill Feb 2013 #38
Class action lawsuits make lawyers rich not people. nt XRubicon Feb 2013 #39
I will never give this POS company my money. RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #40
You win all Carnival threads for life! jberryhill Feb 2013 #46
A PR Disaster On Top Of A PR Disaster... KharmaTrain Feb 2013 #49
Carnival also pays _Nothing_ in taxes, runs a casino on shipboard, and their backup plan... sfpcjock Feb 2013 #50
That ship supposedly had engine trouble Politicalboi Feb 2013 #52
Still...I'd rather have engine trouble out at sea than engine trouble in the air davidn3600 Feb 2013 #65
A fire at sea is just as dangerous. nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #69
Two (legal) Words: Bad Faith ..... fine print won't work with something like this. -nt democrat2thecore Feb 2013 #71
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