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pipoman

(16,038 posts)
Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:40 PM Dec 2012

The "Gun Show Loophole" solution? [View all]

Anyone can tell from my posts on the issue of firearms that I am a gun owner. I don't own anything that could be considered an "assault weapon" under any of the numerous descriptions I have heard about assault weapons other than I do own some semi-automatic hunting guns all over 40 years old, and semi automatic pistols I used in a previous profession. I don't have a ccw, I carried concealed for almost 20 years, licensed by the attorney general of my state long before the public could carry concealed, as a necessity of my previous profession. I tired of that career and carrying a gun everyday is one reason I made a midlife career change. I don't want felons or other prohibited people to access guns. Enough about me.

The "gun show loophole" as it has come to be known, really has nothing to do with gun shows. It has to do with sale of guns between two residents, private citizens not engaged in the business of selling guns, of the same state, within the borders of that state. These sales can take place at a garage sale, front porch, parking lot, a gun show, craigs list, or anyplace else.

Currently the law is...Every gun sold by a federal firearms dealer (FFL) is subject to a background check, without regard for the venue the FFL is selling the gun (gun show, kitchen table, etc.). Depending on the state, the background check is either done by the FFL calling (national instant check system) NICS and telling them the personal information of the buyer or by calling a state agency who does their own check on the buyer. Most states use the NICS method.

If I decided I wanted to sell a gun, I can sell it to a citizen of my state without an NICS check as long as the person isn't a felon or otherwise prohibited yo the best of my knowledge. Here's where a problem arises. I have almost no way of knowing if the buyer is lying to me about their residency or their eligibility to own a gun. I say almost because the only possibility of being sure I am selling to an eligible buyer is to meet the buyer at a FFL and beg the FFL to, for a fee, do a NICS check (free access for the FFL) for me. They are not required to do the check for me. That's it. That is the only way I can determine the buyer is eligible.

Why isn't a private sale within my state subject to a federal law requiring a background check? Because this is the Constitutional boundary of the federal government. Several times different bills have gone to committee in DC trying to make a law requiring a background check on private intrastate gun sales, and have never made it out of committee, even when the committees have been chaired by Democrats. This always runs up against the "commerce clause" prohibiting the federal government from regulating intrastate commerce of legal personal property.

I don't want to sell to a prohibited person and if there was a reasonable way for me to be assured I'm not, I would do that. I don't need the hassle of selling the gun and 5 or 10 years later getting a visit from the police wanting to know the disposition of the gun because it was used in a crime.

If intrastate private sales can't be regulated at the federal level, maybe it's time to get creative.

I believe that if the licensing requirements for FFLs were amended to require every FFL dealer to conduct NICS checks for private sales. These must be in a timely manner and for a low statutory fee, say $20. Offer a limit of liability to any person who sells a gun privately using the NICS system. If the gun is later used in a crime the seller who used the system is immune from prosecution criminally and immune from civil liability...no immunity for a person selling a gun without the system. Now a huge government sponsored public service campaign explaining the system and encourage people selling their gun to use the system. Set up transfer stations at all gun shows. Make it easy to use.

Once this system is firmly in place and is effective it would be much easier to encourage states to require checks on private sales. I firmly believe from years of studying and watching this issue, this or something like this is the best answer to the private sale issue. I believe this or something like this is the fastest, cheapest, and most likely to start getting closer to background checks on all private sales..

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Solution: Spryguy Dec 2012 #1
That's what OP proposed. nt jody Dec 2012 #2
Not quite. Spryguy Dec 2012 #4
Can't (Constitutionally) be regulated at the intrastate level...now what? pipoman Dec 2012 #5
"I believe that if the licensing requirements for FFLs were amended to require every FFL dealer to jody Dec 2012 #8
You make an excellent point. NashvilleLefty Dec 2012 #3
I really believe the gun lobby may agree pipoman Dec 2012 #7
Thank you for your post. LisaLynne Dec 2012 #6
But it would have to be voluntary, right? Squinch Dec 2012 #9
Yes it would start out voluntary.. pipoman Dec 2012 #12
Thanks. I do think this is just the kind of thing that is needed to begin to work on this, and it Squinch Dec 2012 #28
I believe your idea is a sound one. Jenoch Dec 2012 #10
The "it's not the Federal Government's jurisdiction" talking point is simply inaccurate. DanTex Dec 2012 #11
Yes it does..well, regulates, not necessarily prevents.. pipoman Dec 2012 #13
While I like your suggestion and I'm adding it to my list of what my legislators are going to hear Squinch Dec 2012 #29
Thanks... pipoman Dec 2012 #35
How do pawn shops handle the sales? Do licencsed dealers take consignment deals? rwheeler31 Dec 2012 #14
If a pawn shop sells guns pipoman Dec 2012 #15
If you have ever watched Pawn Stars Jenoch Dec 2012 #19
Your idea sounds good to me. (n/t) spin Dec 2012 #16
There would have to be action on a state-by-state level. krispos42 Dec 2012 #17
I believe pipoman Dec 2012 #26
Very smart. Squinch Dec 2012 #30
Even post-Brzonkala, it's not clear to me how the court would rule, particularly... Recursion Dec 2012 #18
It wouldn't be a manditory system unless or until the pipoman Dec 2012 #25
I think initiatives like this would do very well at the ballot box SpartanDem Dec 2012 #20
2 problems Angleae Dec 2012 #21
The first pipoman Dec 2012 #23
I'm glad to see someone providing constructive ideas davidpdx Dec 2012 #22
I and others have floated this and similar ideas before.. pipoman Dec 2012 #24
Used gun sales should be through real "bricks and mortars" stores... Kolesar Dec 2012 #27
that is not what SCOTUS says the commerece clause says dsc Dec 2012 #31
The difference, of coarse, pipoman Dec 2012 #33
Don't disagree. But gun owners can go to FFL right now, most choose to take fistful of cash Hoyt Dec 2012 #32
"Most"...Yeah, most FFLs are not interested in doing inhouse transfers.. pipoman Dec 2012 #34
Good excuse to sell to unknown for cash. That is what irresponsible gun owners do. Hoyt Dec 2012 #36
Some will always prefer to be part of the problem.. pipoman Dec 2012 #37
Dont be so sure... Spryguy Dec 2012 #38
Help yourself..insure nothing happens.. pipoman Dec 2012 #39
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