General Discussion

slackmaster

(60,567 posts)

37. I'm sure an actuary could come up with a figure, and I believe that it would be very, very low.

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:10 PM

Dec 2012

Demographically speaking, I as a middle-class white male employed college-educated homeowner over 50 years old with no record of violent crime, am very unlikely to ever murder anyone in what remains of my life. (Age, gender, socioeconomic status, and criminal background are all strong predictors of future criminality.) Of course I am very likely to vote in an election, and I would not be inclined to vote for any candidate who wanted to asses me for crimes committed by other people - Which would be the very essence of the kind of liability coverage you are suggesting.

But I am not sure there is any precedent for insurers covering damages from criminal acts, or that the law would permit them to do so.

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Do you think "Firearm Insurance" would be cheap, decently affordable, or prohibitively expensive? [View all] OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2012 OP

If owning a firearm posed a measurable, significant risk, insurers would already be charging higher slackmaster Dec 2012 #1

That's a logical fallacy CJCRANE Dec 2012 #3

Wha?? galileoreloaded Dec 2012 #9

A company exists to find money. OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2012 #12

Business is about making money, not pursuing "good ideas" slackmaster Dec 2012 #23

That means if your gun is used to murder someone then the taxpayers pay for the damages Fumesucker Dec 2012 #24

If my vehicle gets stolen and crashed into a school bus the taxpayers will pay for the damages too slackmaster Dec 2012 #26

Will your insurance pay if you use the gun to murder someone? Fumesucker Dec 2012 #27

No. Liability policies all explictly exclude paying claims for damages caused by crimes... slackmaster Dec 2012 #28

That's the insurance that's needed, if you murder someone with your gun your insurance should pay Fumesucker Dec 2012 #30

No insurer on Earth is going to cover liability for criminal acts of any kind slackmaster Dec 2012 #31

The likelihood of your using your gun to murder is actuarially computable Fumesucker Dec 2012 #34

I'm sure an actuary could come up with a figure, and I believe that it would be very, very low. slackmaster Dec 2012 #37

Do you think it would be the same for a middle class white woman? Fumesucker Dec 2012 #39

Nancy Lanza was in a much higher socioeconomic tier than I am slackmaster Dec 2012 #44

Still just upper middle class Fumesucker Dec 2012 #46

I have gun insurance, and don't have an issue with requiring it for traditional liability slackmaster Dec 2012 #48

But criminals don't pay for their crimes and I know that you know that Fumesucker Dec 2012 #49

That is generally true. We all as taxpayers pay for the misdeeds of criminals. slackmaster Dec 2012 #59

$58 per year and it's $2.5 million coverage now Fumesucker Dec 2012 #65

Did the policy cover criminal misuse of radio-controlled model aircraft? slackmaster Dec 2012 #69

I don't believe that's actually happened Fumesucker Dec 2012 #70

Pay what? AlexSatan Dec 2012 #33

The cost of a funeral is the only damage when someone is murdered? Fumesucker Dec 2012 #36

Of course not AlexSatan Dec 2012 #51

Yes, I know the life of 7 year old is worth quite a bit Fumesucker Dec 2012 #52

insurance companies don't HAVE to charge anybody unless the gov mandates it, NRA owns congress farminator3000 Dec 2012 #4

You can get insured for just about anything. OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2012 #13

i guess you sound condescending because you are an insurance person? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #18

You have made a major mistake by assuming that I meant to say that guns aren't dangerous slackmaster Dec 2012 #22

you are mistaken because your facts are wrong. not quite sure what your point is , either farminator3000 Dec 2012 #73

Ah, the Kellerman "body count fallacy" study slackmaster Dec 2012 #21

And the Gunnium attract Gunnium idiocy X_Digger Dec 2012 #25

Not true quakerboy Dec 2012 #10

Comparing liability insurance to health coverage is apples-to-oranges. slackmaster Dec 2012 #20

it should be cheap for an elderly hunter that uses it once a year and prohibitive for maniacs who farminator3000 Dec 2012 #2

Why "should"? OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2012 #15

um, what are you talking about? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #16

I just got distracted thinking about the bullshit medical insurance practices. OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2012 #19

If insurance companies are involved-very expensive... HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #5

What Hooptie said. malthaussen Dec 2012 #6

The former, in most all cases. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #7

I think it would be slightly less than expensive, but certainly not prohibitively expensive RomneyLies Dec 2012 #8

some good ny times comments the other day: should be very expensive, and a bond should also be requi amborin Dec 2012 #11

Section Five of the US Constitution awaits your attentions. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #14

Yeah... uhhh... that would be unconstitutional. OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2012 #17

rights? what about the right to walk peacefully in public and not feel threatened by some gun toting amborin Dec 2012 #47

I think that if the goal is to actually to reduce gun violence by reducing the numbers of guns jmg257 Dec 2012 #29

What's the insurance insure against? Recursion Dec 2012 #32

I'm not sure the law of my state would allow an insurer to cover liability arising from crimes... slackmaster Dec 2012 #35

Since most gun deaths are within the owner's own family mainer Dec 2012 #38

You have just cited a bogus factoid, mainer. According to the FBI's crime statistics for 2010, slackmaster Dec 2012 #40

55% of gun deaths are suicides. You only quoted murders. mainer Dec 2012 #64

I suppose if you regard a suicide victim as a member of his or her own family, your factoid is true slackmaster Dec 2012 #67

That's exactly it -- in suicides, no suing for damages. No legal liability mainer Dec 2012 #68

If that's the only way to get insurance to pay up you can bet there will be lawsuits within families Fumesucker Dec 2012 #41

I don't think you are right about most deaths being within the family hack89 Dec 2012 #42

55% of gun deaths are suicides. mainer Dec 2012 #66

And I didn't even factor in accidental deaths mainer Dec 2012 #71

I see what you are getting at. hack89 Dec 2012 #72

An infringement? Chorophyll Dec 2012 #43

You don't have to buy insurance for a car that you keep parked in your garage, or drive only on... slackmaster Dec 2012 #45

I live in New York State. Chorophyll Dec 2012 #54

Things aren't that way in every state slackmaster Dec 2012 #63

Well okay then. But you know what? This conversation has gone totally off-track. Chorophyll Dec 2012 #74

States can require insurance because they own the roads Recursion Dec 2012 #50

To your second point: I should damn well hope so. Chorophyll Dec 2012 #55

Right, you can't drive it on roads without insurance. That's what I said Recursion Dec 2012 #56

I don't think so. Chorophyll Dec 2012 #57

I've done this Recursion Dec 2012 #58

So when you buy a gun, you're never going to shoot it? Chorophyll Dec 2012 #61

I suppose firearms can be used entirely on private property. OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2012 #79

I guess. There does seem to be a fundamental lack of understanding between those of us Chorophyll Dec 2012 #83

New York State: Chorophyll Dec 2012 #60

"To own and drive a car" Recursion Dec 2012 #62

Dunno about the cost, but I can't wait for the commercials... MindPilot Dec 2012 #53

I like the idea. If people needed to provide proof of insurance before Motown_Johnny Dec 2012 #75

I learned yesterday that insurance does not pay upaloopa Dec 2012 #76

Only if you are the criminal Glitterati Dec 2012 #77

The costs bongbong Dec 2012 #78

Why would the insurance be on a per gun basis. OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2012 #80

DUH! bongbong Dec 2012 #81

Guns themselves do not cause death/injury... OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2012 #82

Crime bongbong Dec 2012 #85

I don't know why people feel the need to buy more guns. OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2012 #86

Infringement or not... it would be interesting to see the data that would be used salin Dec 2012 #84