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politicat

(9,808 posts)
67. So...
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:46 PM
Dec 2012
I'm taking about kids that are aggressive, drop out, have low intelligence an just get into trouble all the time.


Here's the thing with "aggressive, trouble-making dropouts." By the time they're 15 or 16 and have their reputation, they've usually spent a decade in crappy schools with inexperienced or burnt out teachers who have flattened their ability to invest and care out of self-defense. (Note that I'm talking urban-suburban; rural aggressive, trouble-making dropouts have their own set of issues.) It's not the teachers' fault -- teachers have it no better than we head-shrinkers. Those kids are generally not low-intelligence -- the most effective trouble-makers are often of high-normal intelligence. They ARE ignorant because learning is a skill they've never been taught. They often have underlying heavy metals toxicity (which affects impulsivity and long-term planning ability) from living in sub-standard housing. They often experienced early childhood malnutrition, which also contributes to impulsivity. Why should they care when nobody around them does? (If you haven't read it yet, please read Sudhir Venkatesh's Gang Leader for a Day. JT was brilliant and an example of how we waste young, agile minds.)

These kids live in a truly dysfunctional power structure -- they know that their parents/elders are exploited by a system that takes their labor and gives as little as possible in return, or without even the hope of being exploited. They see no reason to believe they'll have anything different, and few reasons to invest in a system that doesn't invest in them. They can't articulate it, but they know they're being screwed.

When people are powerless, they will assert any power possible. If that means causing trouble, that's the scrap they can take. Causing trouble doesn't HELP, but it's a solace for a little while. They feel better, at least temporarily. Intoxicants and sex follow the same pattern -- intoxication is insulation from the insults the world is hurling; sex is a temporary connection. In a world with little solace, you take what you can get.

The Boston State Hospital example (and most of the state hospitals) are an excellent example of what we shouldn't do -- and the smoking is a strong indicator of exactly what population we screwed over. About 80% of schizophrenics smoke heavily, because nicotine and the MAOIs in tobacco smoke work as neuro-regulators. They're medicating when they smoke. Tobacco is a somewhat better drug than the anti-psychotics in our medicine cabinet -- fewer immediate side effects, easier to obtain. (Cancer and emphysema are not concerns when the voices are loud.) Schizophrenia is brittle -- without meds, a schizophrenic has about a 1 in 10 chance of navigating the world. Out-patient care can work, but only with high-touch, regular and consistent assistance and advocacy. A social worker with a 500 client case load can't provide that.

As far as Congress goes... they're the other end of the power spectrum, and just as much at the mercy of money as my teen-age dropouts. Experts don't make campaign contributions. We've got a broken system in need of far more bribery and far less corruption.
K & R libdem4life Dec 2012 #1
Vivid reality check. JohnnyLib2 Dec 2012 #2
Selfish jerk... mzteris Dec 2012 #3
-1 ThoughtCriminal Dec 2012 #4
Please tell me you didn't say that. X_Digger Dec 2012 #6
My first thought when I read that reply. enlightenment Dec 2012 #11
Perhaps instead of stopping to Skidmore Dec 2012 #27
Just burnt out... politicat Dec 2012 #22
This really deserves an OP of its own. I honestly had very coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #24
I hear you. Skidmore Dec 2012 #28
Yes. This, exactly. easttexaslefty Dec 2012 #32
Oh, lawdie. politicat Dec 2012 #69
This tallies with everything I've heard. Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #35
Thank you for posting this. yardwork Dec 2012 #40
This really does deserve an OP of its own. Jamastiene Dec 2012 #41
+100000000. I really hope you make this its own OP. riderinthestorm Dec 2012 #45
Another request for an OP with a link to this one, please. People have no idea. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #53
I spent twenty five years in those trenches The empressof all Dec 2012 #57
On the money, not really. politicat Dec 2012 #70
Loved "...so I have the energy and time to fight for better conditions for clients and colleagues... duhneece Dec 2012 #63
Self-preservation is very selfish and people should be proud of that... Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #36
maybe a professional Internet message board typey person? snooper2 Dec 2012 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author blueamy66 Dec 2012 #49
My first thoughts as well. blueamy66 Dec 2012 #50
So you wouldn't... 99Forever Dec 2012 #54
Physician, heal thyself. lapislzi Dec 2012 #56
that's what I call an advocate KT2000 Dec 2012 #5
THANK YOU. Amen to that. napoleon_in_rags Dec 2012 #30
I don't want to work for free either ComplimentarySwine Dec 2012 #33
I'm sorry, where was the requirement that all mental health professionals treat all clients? jeff47 Dec 2012 #7
that particular individual seems more worried about himself treestar Dec 2012 #8
I'd like to see the responses. Raine1967 Dec 2012 #9
I'd like to see the responses from their clients Cetacea Dec 2012 #21
Pfffffffft RedCappedBandit Dec 2012 #10
I would like to hear from more professionals - what should be done with these patients? socialindependocrat Dec 2012 #12
Short answers... politicat Dec 2012 #25
Thank you - You offer some very good information socialindependocrat Dec 2012 #43
So... politicat Dec 2012 #67
So, even if we could better the treatment, all it takes is one a month and we've lost the game. socialindependocrat Dec 2012 #71
I am a fan of your idea of mental health evals for high school kids. TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #48
I wonder femrap Dec 2012 #13
I suspect it was schizophrenia, too. pacalo Dec 2012 #15
There have been no hallucinations or delusions reported. But he might have some of the other criteri Michigan Alum Dec 2012 #20
If he had heard voices in his head it will likely be made public. pacalo Dec 2012 #26
Evidently Adam stopped talking to his father in 2010 from what I read a while ago Fumesucker Dec 2012 #19
Very eye-opening. pacalo Dec 2012 #14
Big freaking baby! They should not work in mental health. I say this as a mental health professional Michigan Alum Dec 2012 #16
+100 napoleon_in_rags Dec 2012 #31
Would you please define a "smart" environment. n/t socialindependocrat Dec 2012 #44
Access to weapons, drugs, and vulnerable members of society restricted. nt napoleon_in_rags Dec 2012 #64
So you think you could have prevented every one of these shooters given the opportunity? dkf Dec 2012 #52
I assume you work in residential or in patient care The empressof all Dec 2012 #62
Sometimes that's a good thing. napoleon_in_rags Dec 2012 #66
I am not surprised Jack nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #17
Society is always looking for someone to blame after some a horrific event. Lone_Star_Dem Dec 2012 #18
Re: the CYA tone here XemaSab Dec 2012 #23
You're talking about a strict "Tarasoff" Duty To Warn standard. Jackpine Radical Dec 2012 #37
I wonder what people who treat cancer victims are saying? They are just as violent n/t Cetacea Dec 2012 #29
And those burnt out ER docs and nurses. blueamy66 Dec 2012 #51
Yes. I have seen what that does to healers and caregivers. Cetacea Dec 2012 #68
I totally agree. blueamy66 Dec 2012 #72
I'm a therapist, here's my take Happyhippychick Dec 2012 #34
Not to mention that those of us who are mentally ill but not dangerous Jamastiene Dec 2012 #38
Yes, that's another thing you said that makes me furious. 99.9999999999999999999% of "mentally ill" Happyhippychick Dec 2012 #46
I wish I could give that 100 recs slackmaster Dec 2012 #39
. Happyhippychick Dec 2012 #47
There was a case in Washington State a number of years ago. Turbineguy Dec 2012 #55
So, I'd like to interject from the perspective of a patient. Denninmi Dec 2012 #58
Don't take it personally. "Mental illness" is just another ridiculous fall back excuse cbdo2007 Dec 2012 #59
I think the vast majority of mental health professionals would agree with you 100% The empressof all Dec 2012 #60
Interesting how they use the RW buzz word "entitlements" lpbk2713 Dec 2012 #61
Thanks, fellow JR, and never mind the kneebiting. JackRiddler Dec 2012 #65
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