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In reply to the discussion: Judge orders father of 9 to stop having children until he can provide for them [View all]me b zola
(19,053 posts)78. Ah, the answer to poverty!
Jonathan Swift had some thoughts on this:
A Modest Proposal for preventing the children of poor people in Ireland, from being a burden on their parents or country, and for making them beneficial to the publick (1729)
~snip~
As to my own part, having turned my thoughts for many years, upon this important subject, and maturely weighed the several schemes of our projectors, I have always found them grossly mistaken in their computation. It is true, a child just dropt from its dam, may be supported by her milk, for a solar year, with little other nourishment: at most not above the value of two shillings, which the mother may certainly get, or the value in scraps, by her lawful occupation of begging; and it is exactly at one year old that I propose to provide for them in such a manner, as, instead of being a charge upon their parents, or the parish, or wanting food and raiment for the rest of their lives, they shall, on the contrary, contribute to the feeding, and partly to the cloathing of many thousands.
There is likewise another great advantage in my scheme, that it will prevent those voluntary abortions, and that horrid practice of women murdering their bastard children, alas! too frequent among us, sacrificing the poor innocent babes, I doubt, more to avoid the expence than the shame, which would move tears and pity in the most savage and inhuman breast.
The number of souls in this kingdom being usually reckoned one million and a half, of these I calculate there may be about two hundred thousand couple whose wives are breeders; from which number I subtract thirty thousand couple, who are able to maintain their own children, (although I apprehend there cannot be so many, under the present distresses of the kingdom) but this being granted, there will remain an hundred and seventy thousand breeders. I again subtract fifty thousand, for those women who miscarry, or whose children die by accident or disease within the year. There only remain an hundred and twenty thousand children of poor parents annually born. The question therefore is, How this number shall be reared, and provided for? which, as I have already said, under the present situation of affairs, is utterly impossible by all the methods hitherto proposed. For we can neither employ them in handicraft or agriculture; we neither build houses, (I mean in the country) nor cultivate land: they can very seldom pick up a livelihood by stealing till they arrive at six years old; except where they are of towardly parts, although I confess they learn the rudiments much earlier; during which time they can however be properly looked upon only as probationers: As I have been informed by a principal gentleman in the county of Cavan, who protested to me, that he never knew above one or two instances under the age of six, even in a part of the kingdom so renowned for the quickest proficiency in that art.
~more @ link~
http://www.victorianweb.org/previctorian/swift/modest.html
~snip~
As to my own part, having turned my thoughts for many years, upon this important subject, and maturely weighed the several schemes of our projectors, I have always found them grossly mistaken in their computation. It is true, a child just dropt from its dam, may be supported by her milk, for a solar year, with little other nourishment: at most not above the value of two shillings, which the mother may certainly get, or the value in scraps, by her lawful occupation of begging; and it is exactly at one year old that I propose to provide for them in such a manner, as, instead of being a charge upon their parents, or the parish, or wanting food and raiment for the rest of their lives, they shall, on the contrary, contribute to the feeding, and partly to the cloathing of many thousands.
There is likewise another great advantage in my scheme, that it will prevent those voluntary abortions, and that horrid practice of women murdering their bastard children, alas! too frequent among us, sacrificing the poor innocent babes, I doubt, more to avoid the expence than the shame, which would move tears and pity in the most savage and inhuman breast.
The number of souls in this kingdom being usually reckoned one million and a half, of these I calculate there may be about two hundred thousand couple whose wives are breeders; from which number I subtract thirty thousand couple, who are able to maintain their own children, (although I apprehend there cannot be so many, under the present distresses of the kingdom) but this being granted, there will remain an hundred and seventy thousand breeders. I again subtract fifty thousand, for those women who miscarry, or whose children die by accident or disease within the year. There only remain an hundred and twenty thousand children of poor parents annually born. The question therefore is, How this number shall be reared, and provided for? which, as I have already said, under the present situation of affairs, is utterly impossible by all the methods hitherto proposed. For we can neither employ them in handicraft or agriculture; we neither build houses, (I mean in the country) nor cultivate land: they can very seldom pick up a livelihood by stealing till they arrive at six years old; except where they are of towardly parts, although I confess they learn the rudiments much earlier; during which time they can however be properly looked upon only as probationers: As I have been informed by a principal gentleman in the county of Cavan, who protested to me, that he never knew above one or two instances under the age of six, even in a part of the kingdom so renowned for the quickest proficiency in that art.
~more @ link~
http://www.victorianweb.org/previctorian/swift/modest.html
The meeting of satire and reality is occurring far too often afaic.
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Judge orders father of 9 to stop having children until he can provide for them [View all]
Liberal_in_LA
Dec 2012
OP
When the burden of feeding and housing those children falls to the state,
LiberalAndProud
Dec 2012
#73
Last time I checked, support was based on both the mother and the father's salaries
blueamy66
Dec 2012
#123
Only if it is, in fact, a right. Is it a right to create life and then violate its right to life,
patrice
Dec 2012
#44
no, the constitution only guarantees reproductive freedom to corporations, as well as the
HiPointDem
Dec 2012
#53
There's a lot of confusion out there about the differences between liberty and freedom. nt
patrice
Dec 2012
#46
Yes. There are a lot of seemingly good 1 offs to violate Constitutional Freedoms. 99.99999% are bad
stevenleser
Dec 2012
#38
9 children by 6 women. Seems like the women should get the same sentence...no?
Liberal_in_LA
Dec 2012
#6
are they each having nine children? moreover are they not providing for their kids?
La Lioness Priyanka
Dec 2012
#33
So, if he fathers another child, thats a violation of his probation and he goes to jail?
Beaverhausen
Dec 2012
#5
he's behind 50K and 40K is interest (that's student loan type interest accrual)
Liberal_in_LA
Dec 2012
#14
it seems that the the fact that there are 6 mothers makes the guy look like a bum. if it
Liberal_in_LA
Dec 2012
#23
In most cases of fines and fees and so forth, I'd agree with your rationale.
joeunderdog
Dec 2012
#134
I would say... Though almost appropriate in this case, too dangerous a road to go down...
Democracyinkind
Dec 2012
#19
sometimes what seems like a commonsensical decision, would be extremely
La Lioness Priyanka
Dec 2012
#31
Are we sure that it is about finances? or the level of personal responsibility for those lives?
patrice
Dec 2012
#72
Unless the judge plans to have him castrated, I don't see how he can enforce this
SoCalDem
Dec 2012
#48
The judge said (in the article) that he didn't have the authority to have him sterilized.
Angleae
Dec 2012
#99
Most communities wouldn't allow you to have 9 CATS if you couldn't take care of them.
alphafemale
Dec 2012
#51
Good for the judge. Subsidizing those that overpopulate is ridiculous. nt
Comrade_McKenzie
Dec 2012
#52
yes, only the reproduction of those who can afford to consume 100 times their weight
HiPointDem
Dec 2012
#55
As almost a pure aside: Technically, this deadbeat dad is genetically WAY ahead of the game.
Poll_Blind
Dec 2012
#60
I understand this but it scares me. This can be turned around against the mothers of these children
jwirr
Dec 2012
#62
Common sense dictates that you don't have another child with a dude that already has 9
blueamy66
Dec 2012
#90
It would be wonderful if more people applied some common sense to their family planning decisions
slackmaster
Dec 2012
#111
He should have given him 5 years probation and reduce it to 3 if he'd get a vasectomy
TexasBushwhacker
Dec 2012
#92
Take away tax deuction for more than 2 children ok maybe 3 thats it........
kooljerk666
Dec 2012
#103
Law student here, support the judge, totally- and I think within his power. nt
cecilfirefox
Dec 2012
#125