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yagotme

(3,049 posts)
321. I'm sure "children" can be tried as an adult.
Mon Apr 15, 2024, 06:11 PM
Apr 15
https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/juvenile-tried-as-an-adult.html

Illinois: Illinois defines any individual who is under the age of 17 as a minor child. However, if a juvenile is a repeat offender or if they committed a serious crime, then they can be tried as an adult as early as the age of 13. Minors between the ages of 15 and 17 can be statutorily excluded and tried as an adult if they commit violent crimes, such as first-degree murder, armed robbery, or rape.


So, what's YOUR definition of a "child", so we can do an apples/apples study?
No longer defending Israel [View all] angrychair Apr 3 OP
I'm with you. Scrivener7 Apr 3 #1
me too TomDaisy Apr 4 #203
Luckily, President Biden doesn't agree TexasDem69 Apr 3 #2
The quibbling over the word "genocide" reminds me of arguing about what type of gun was . . . . Stinky The Clown Apr 3 #5
The word "genocide" has meaning TexasDem69 Apr 3 #8
Ethnic cleansing, then. LuvLoogie Apr 3 #20
Just as random and just as inapplicable. Beastly Boy Apr 4 #70
It is literal, textbook ethnic cleansing obamanut2012 Apr 4 #113
Whose textbook? Beastly Boy Apr 4 #133
Oh stop. you always do this, and you know exactly what I mean obamanut2012 Apr 4 #151
The rationalizing is appalling, no? BuddhaGirl Apr 4 #169
Everyone forgets the 1940's and what Israeli population went through. jimfields33 Apr 4 #183
Learned their lesson too well OrangeJoe Apr 4 #186
Is this your take on the current conflict? yagotme Apr 5 #261
I have not forgotten agalisgv Apr 4 #223
You want me to stop asking you where you get your stuff so you can keep referring to Beastly Boy Apr 4 #198
My Lai is not an equivalent BigmanPigman Apr 3 #23
gen·o·cide /ˈjenəˌsīd/ quakerboy Apr 3 #24
You do you, I'll do imprecise me Stinky The Clown Apr 3 #26
Because the word is being murielm99 Apr 4 #60
+1 betsuni Apr 4 #66
If Israel doesn't want Palestine to garner the world's sympathy Sky Jewels Apr 4 #80
If they supported the attacks on Israel, but didn't directly participate, they are still guilty. Lucky Luciano Apr 4 #148
Oh, so the thousands of children and teens that Israel has maimed slaughtered and starved are guilty? Sky Jewels Apr 4 #154
Be careful what you wish for OrangeJoe Apr 4 #188
..even the children? whathehell Apr 4 #225
Not the children. War is hell. Lucky Luciano Apr 4 #234
Massacres are worse.. whathehell Apr 4 #235
I think we need to seek the definition of "children" as Hamas sees it. yagotme Apr 5 #262
I can't imagine why one would 'need' to do that, whathehell Apr 6 #313
I'm sure there are some trial courts here in the US that would disagree with you, nt yagotme Apr 11 #318
Lol..I'm not at all sure of that, whathehell Apr 11 #320
I'm sure "children" can be tried as an adult. yagotme Apr 15 #321
In this country.. whathehell Apr 15 #322
The Israeli government is NOT synonymous with "the Jewish people" Sky Jewels Apr 4 #89
Don't you dare say that I murielm99 Apr 4 #90
Oh, that is what you said obamanut2012 Apr 4 #114
I separated the two. murielm99 Apr 4 #142
You are correct, as usual. Oopsie Daisy Apr 4 #112
Apparently your argument is that the word Voltaire2 Apr 4 #123
Thank you. By (incorrectly) using the loaded term "genocide", the interlocutor signals that ... AnrothElf Apr 4 #170
There is no evidence that Israelis are bathing Voltaire2 Apr 4 #171
Thank you. murielm99 Apr 4 #174
+1 betsuni Apr 5 #248
A one-sided war such as this sure looks a lot like genocide. No Palestinians were firing back at the IDF when they were TeamProg Apr 4 #197
A real war? murielm99 Apr 4 #205
THIS IS NOT A "WAR" - IT IS A MASSACRE! The casualty count is far, far too unbalanced to call this a "war". See::: TeamProg Apr 4 #207
I am not going to read any more of your changing explanations murielm99 Apr 4 #209
Hmmm, you are mistaken that I care about what you think of my posts. TeamProg Apr 4 #210
The poster didn't give their own definition.. whathehell Apr 4 #231
I agree. Butterflylady Apr 4 #168
Genocide is Genocide TheCynic56 Apr 4 #125
The UN never said that Israel is committing genocide lapucelle Apr 6 #305
Read the UN definition of genocide. It describes Israel's actions. Lonestarblue Apr 4 #135
No it doesn't. That's why the ICJ denied SA's demands for an immediate cessation lapucelle Apr 6 #308
The same UN that determined in 2005 JustAnotherGen Apr 6 #311
the bombing might not b, but mopinko Apr 4 #141
World Central Kitchen was in touch with the Israeli government . . . markpkessinger Apr 4 #167
Okay, how about mass murder? whathehell Apr 4 #216
Perhaps Hamas should have taken this into account BEFORE attacking Israel... yagotme Apr 5 #263
Great analogy. Basic LA Apr 4 #50
Thank you. Goddessartist Apr 4 #134
If the ICJ ruled tomorrow it was a genocide.... TheRealNorth Apr 4 #180
exactly. how many children are going to be smashed between floors of collapsed buildings TomDaisy Apr 4 #204
They are starving Gaza to death angrychair Apr 3 #6
WAR!! TexasDem69 Apr 3 #11
Money angrychair Apr 3 #16
Your suggestion would probably help wnylib Apr 4 #63
Wasn't talking about given money to Hamas angrychair Apr 4 #76
Yes, the Marshall Plan was an excellent program wnylib Apr 4 #166
Wow the poster said nothing of the sort obamanut2012 Apr 4 #116
Dunno. But I don't want my tax money going to Israel to allow it to continue. 3Hotdogs Apr 3 #29
Pretty sure targeting relief workers dflprincess Apr 3 #39
Not by wiping out every Palestinian in Gaza, KPN Apr 4 #64
There are multiple international treaties that Voltaire2 Apr 4 #94
Posters keep glossing over that obamanut2012 Apr 4 #117
You are still excusing the slaughter obamanut2012 Apr 4 #115
Starvation as a tactic of war is a war crime under the Rome Statute of the ICC markpkessinger Apr 4 #173
Apparently there are some here Mossfern Apr 4 #236
List those repeated attacks. Beastly Boy Apr 4 #72
Dead journalists OrangeJoe Apr 4 #190
Not only are you not citing sources, you are not even referring to the "they" Beastly Boy Apr 4 #201
Citation OrangeJoe Apr 4 #237
Thank you. This is what I was looking for. Beastly Boy Apr 4 #244
Journalists are journalists OrangeJoe Apr 5 #292
Sorry, there is a hell of a difference between propagandists and journalists. Beastly Boy Apr 6 #296
Israel is waging war against... dchill Apr 3 #12
How many bodies will be enough? Bayard Apr 3 #18
The children of the holocaust did not hate Germans for the rest of their lives. SunSeeker Apr 4 #73
They will rebuild Gaza BigMin28 Apr 4 #107
You're right. Gaza could be an opportunity to rethink the whole "middle east vs western culture" conundrum. jaxexpat Apr 4 #127
Not true OrangeJoe Apr 4 #191
Wrong. Golda Meir did not hate Germans. She advocated for reconciliation. SunSeeker Apr 5 #246
You may be right OrangeJoe Apr 5 #290
I've met plenty of elderly Germans who still held a grudge. cab67 Apr 4 #230
I don't think Netanyahu's plan involves Bettie Apr 4 #138
1200 people, so kill 30k and starve the rest of them to death? AllyCat Apr 3 #22
"Attacking unarmed civilians is beyond the pale no matter who does it." TBF Apr 3 #28
No. Even if Hamas does it. If you reread my post, AllyCat Apr 4 #105
He is trying to "root them out" - but I will agree with you that his methods do leave something TBF Apr 4 #136
Strawman OrangeJoe Apr 4 #192
If only that was true... nt sarisataka Apr 4 #199
Actually a lot of folks are not only defending Hamas - TBF Apr 4 #215
Rephrase OrangeJoe Apr 4 #238
Hamas is the Political Leadership JustAnotherGen Apr 7 #314
DU is missing a downvote button. erodriguez Apr 4 #48
I've thought that before and have come to think that that's probably a good thing. It seems to me that...... EarnestPutz Apr 4 #62
Then Israel should not target aid workers. Trueblue Texan Apr 4 #118
I've seen zero sympathy for Hamas on this board.. whathehell Apr 4 #228
I hear you. I do. Semantics aside, there is an important point to make here. PatrickforB Apr 4 #145
With all respect... appmanga Apr 4 #159
Israeli's goal OrangeJoe Apr 4 #185
So, the work permits Israel allowed Palestinians to enter Israel are fake news? yagotme Apr 5 #264
See for yourself OrangeJoe Apr 5 #289
From your post: yagotme Apr 5 #291
From the article you cited OrangeJoe Apr 6 #298
And they also allow for the betterment of Gazan citizens, yagotme Apr 11 #319
Long term goal OrangeJoe Apr 6 #299
So, the population of Israel is 100% Jewish descent by now, right? yagotme Apr 11 #317
I hope you are mistaken. TomSlick Apr 4 #229
Hamas was tacitly supported by the Israeli gov't radius777 Apr 5 #271
Bibi really blew it this time. BigmanPigman Apr 3 #3
I'm confident President Biden will continue to support TexasDem69 Apr 3 #4
Hopefully not angrychair Apr 3 #9
Well TexasDem69 Apr 3 #13
It's hysterical you think Bibi is for democracy obamanut2012 Apr 4 #122
He's for keeping Israel on the map which countries around it would rather they didn't exist jimfields33 Apr 5 #259
'Our great ally Israel' MyOwnPeace Apr 3 #14
Trying to eliminate Hamas and prevent future TexasDem69 Apr 3 #15
The people of Gaza angrychair Apr 3 #19
That is a good question. How many dead is enough? JanMichael Apr 3 #36
The many times I've seen that question asked, MorbidButterflyTat Apr 5 #295
Who, exactly, do you think Hamas is??? yagotme Apr 5 #265
No, that is incorrect angrychair Apr 5 #268
How is my assessment not accurate? yagotme Apr 5 #270
You seem to have your mind made up angrychair Apr 5 #275
As do you: yagotme Apr 5 #280
"Anyone with a sense of decency fully supports Israel." MyOwnPeace Apr 3 #27
None of us has the right to judge which of us has "a sense of decency." ShazzieB Apr 4 #61
I have lots of decency but I absolutely do not support Phoenix61 Apr 4 #111
I don't support the murder of innocent people obamanut2012 Apr 4 #124
I used to support Israel TheCynic56 Apr 4 #126
How dare you? I don't support what Israel is doing at all. Even my Israeli family doesn't support what Nanjeanne Apr 4 #144
Speaking as someone with a sense of decency - cab67 Apr 4 #232
I agree, it's time for ceasefire. yagotme Apr 5 #266
I'm not laying all of this on the Israeli government or the IDL. cab67 Apr 5 #286
I didn't say that you were. yagotme Apr 5 #287
It is not revenge. It is war to eliminate a terrorist organization wnylib Apr 4 #87
+1 betsuni Apr 4 #92
Then he will lose on November obamanut2012 Apr 4 #121
are you being sarcastic? LymphocyteLover Apr 4 #161
What a great ally. NH Ethylene Apr 4 #242
Only those JustAnotherGen Apr 7 #315
This is similar to our war in Iraq after 9/11 Yavin4 Apr 3 #7
Good point, Bayard Apr 3 #21
Correct. VicNEO Apr 3 #44
No, Iraq had nothing to do with the terrorist attack. Completely different. betsuni Apr 4 #99
I said "similar to" not "exactly like". n/t Yavin4 Apr 4 #211
And neither did Palestinians - Hamas is an Israeli puppet gov't radius777 Apr 5 #272
Right. War against terrorism Easterncedar Apr 4 #110
If Trump wins, it's gonna get worse. We also provide financial support on a 10 year basis. It's auto-renewed. LeftInTX Apr 4 #132
Bad and worse OrangeJoe Apr 4 #193
A Lancet survey found over 650,000 civilian deaths resulting from the unjust Iraq war Ponietz Apr 4 #184
+1. Israel has already lost, as even Thomas Friedman radius777 Apr 5 #273
DURec leftstreet Apr 3 #10
You can no longer argue that Israel doesn't target civilians. patphil Apr 3 #17
This is a turning point for both Biden and Bibi BigmanPigman Apr 3 #25
Hear Hear! Many DUers are in this position. Basic LA Apr 4 #54
I hear you. Goddessartist Apr 4 #131
That's the spirit ! Basic LA Apr 4 #155
Hang in there, you're doing great. AloeVera Apr 5 #293
Thanks, I have to get grip Basic LA Apr 5 #294
So glad to see you! Goddessartist Apr 6 #307
Blessings to you as well, Goddessartist! AloeVera Apr 6 #310
Good morning! Goddessartist Apr 7 #316
Please try to understand creeksneakers2 Apr 3 #30
There is no question that Biden has a perspective on things that is beyond our ability to see. Earth-shine Apr 3 #33
I was always voting for Biden angrychair Apr 3 #35
Yes. Especially among the young people. creeksneakers2 Apr 4 #47
Gaza is a wasteland and unless the hostages were moved out of there Deuxcents Apr 3 #31
It is not a matter of misplaced revenge Martin Eden Apr 3 #32
BN's actions are what jeopardize the existence of Israel radius777 Apr 5 #277
The purpose of the war is to destroy Hamas. madaboutharry Apr 3 #34
Absolutely on purpose angrychair Apr 3 #40
You are free to believe what you want. madaboutharry Apr 4 #46
It's not what I believe angrychair Apr 4 #49
How does executing WCK workers destroy Hamas? Voltaire2 Apr 4 #96
Have to rec this with a post Mossfern Apr 4 #239
Purposefully bypassing literally 5 layers of safeguards to kill one suspected gunman is not destroying Hamas ... uponit7771 Apr 6 #300
Why isn't anyone putting pressure on Egypt to let Gazan women and children in so they can be safe and fed? SunSeeker Apr 3 #37
That what Israel is trying to do angrychair Apr 3 #41
Israel disengaged and forced all the Jewish settlers out of Gaza in 2005 so Beastly Boy Apr 4 #52
It's not what you think angrychair Apr 4 #55
What I think is that your reply shows no substance or logic to your claims. Beastly Boy Apr 4 #59
I'm not Google. angrychair Apr 4 #74
An opinion piece over 10 years old. Beastly Boy Apr 4 #82
What is wrong with saving women and children from the fighting? SunSeeker Apr 4 #67
You know that's Jared Kushner's idea, right? maxsolomon Apr 4 #164
No, temporarily giving women and children sanctuary in Egypt is not Jared's idea. SunSeeker Apr 5 #249
Egypt doesn't want ethnic cleansing under guise of humanitarianism. AloeVera Apr 4 #181
Israel did not create this mess. Hamas did. Saving women and children is the opposite of ethnic cleansing. SunSeeker Apr 5 #250
EC plus Collective Punishment under guise of humanitarianism AloeVera Apr 5 #260
No, it is not collective punishment for Gaza men, anymore than it was for Ukrainian men. SunSeeker Apr 5 #282
So they can leave and never return. Israel will never let them come back. IronLionZion Apr 4 #58
No, so they can survive. SunSeeker Apr 4 #65
The history of that region in the last 3-5 generations says otherwise. RockRaven Apr 4 #79
What does any of that matter if they are dead? SunSeeker Apr 4 #83
I'm not commenting on the value of their lives only the lack of evidence that RockRaven Apr 4 #84
Don't their lives matter more than the potential risk to Palestinian nationalism? SunSeeker Apr 4 #86
I repeat my previous reply. What you are saying to me is a repeated non sequitur. RockRaven Apr 4 #93
It is not a "non sequitor." I am asking you a question you obviously don't want to answer. SunSeeker Apr 6 #297
The history of the region does not justify letting women and children die in the crossfire of war. nt SunSeeker Apr 5 #247
Of course it doesn't JUSTIFY it. And yet the historical record is awash in it. RockRaven Apr 5 #251
Good, then we're in agreement that Egypt's refusal to temporarily let in Gazan women and children is unjustified. nt SunSeeker Apr 5 #252
I have uttered no comment upon that, so it is odd to assert I agree with it. RockRaven Apr 5 #253
So you're fine with Egypt building a wall and keeping Gazan women and children out? nt SunSeeker Apr 5 #254
As previously with you, I repeat my previous reply in response to your RockRaven Apr 5 #255
Your previous replies are not responsive to this question. This question calls for a yes or a no answer. nt SunSeeker Apr 5 #256
Your question is unrelated to my original reply. Do you pose random questions RockRaven Apr 5 #257
It's not a random, nor an unrelated question. You just don't want to answer it. SunSeeker Apr 5 #258
lol obamanut2012 Apr 4 #219
Israelis have killed almost 200 humanitarian aid workers have now been killed and at least 95 journalists and media summer_in_TX Apr 3 #38
The UN figure is 180, and not all of them were killed by Israeli strikes. SunSeeker Apr 4 #91
It's easier to make mistakes in the dark. summer_in_TX Apr 5 #245
We only needed to look at the recent history of our own blood lust after 9-11. onecaliberal Apr 3 #42
Fuck Israel d_b Apr 3 #43
Fuck Hamas. EllieBC Apr 4 #213
Link to where that poster or ANYONE on DU not a 50-post troll said that obamanut2012 Apr 4 #220
Post removed Post removed Apr 4 #227
I'm with you. AverageOldGuy Apr 3 #45
That si very clever -- small arms ammo only obamanut2012 Apr 4 #221
Did you ever? Behind the Aegis Apr 4 #51
Go look at my posts angrychair Apr 4 #56
Egypt, Lebanon? SunSeeker Apr 4 #69
Point me to one. (I will look later, so just one) EDIT NEVERMIND, I looked... Behind the Aegis Apr 4 #88
Those are not "attacks" angrychair Apr 4 #139
Remember, lift with knees when moving goalposts. Behind the Aegis Apr 4 #194
The search feature has been interesting to review posts from October 7. sarisataka Apr 4 #143
I defended Israel on their Gaza invasion and attacks, up until I learned how they are restricting food so severely that LymphocyteLover Apr 4 #162
the entire area makes me sick Skittles Apr 4 #53
I cannot stop crying. To think that a people who have been persecuted would treat others so! emmacom Apr 4 #57
You mean like the persecuted Palestinians who killed and raped teenage concert goers? SunSeeker Apr 4 #68
Holocaust enid602 Apr 4 #95
How sad that you cannot stop crying, but welcome to DU. lapucelle Apr 6 #309
This is the aftermath of 10/07-The day Hamas broke the ceasefire. sheshe2 Apr 6 #312
If Biden loses to Trump... Xolodno Apr 4 #71
No, we left Vietnam because we lost. SunSeeker Apr 4 #75
Well, I'll respond to this. Xolodno Apr 4 #77
Yep claudette Apr 4 #78
Yeah, I'm sure you were supporting Israel before Mountainguy Apr 4 #81
The US supports Israel, what else is new? akbacchus_BC Apr 4 #100
I support the Israel that is currently taking to the streets trying to hold Netenyahu responsible for actions tirebiter Apr 4 #85
The indefensible cannot be defended. Israel has lost the moral high ground. It's gone elocs Apr 4 #97
I agree with you. Israel wants Gaza and netenyahu is cruel to do what hitler did to jews as akbacchus_BC Apr 4 #98
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you malaise Apr 4 #101
Then the scorpion said to the kind frog: ''I couldn't resist, it's my nature" Donkees Apr 4 #102
Correct is right malaise Apr 4 #103
Seems Nethanyahu should try to swim on his own Donkees Apr 4 #104
Enough is enough Raven123 Apr 4 #106
K&R Doc Sportello Apr 4 #108
The same people calling me "pro-Hamas" RandiFan1290 Apr 4 #109
Israel has killed tens of thousands, "mostly women and children". mwb970 Apr 4 #119
All Israelis? JustAnotherGen Apr 4 #120
It has seem to taken a turn Johnny2X2X Apr 4 #128
I actually don't think N is after revenge. I think he's after land Scrivener7 Apr 4 #130
I don't think that Johnny2X2X Apr 4 #137
Hamas has achieved its goal SARose Apr 4 #129
Israel was on the verge of Arab world countries recognizing Israel. Thanks to Bibi, that is not going to happen RAB910 Apr 4 #146
I had forgotten that SARose Apr 4 #214
+1, Hamas is meeting its goal and Bibi is helping them at every step uponit7771 Apr 6 #304
Idiot homicidal maniacs are making the world forget Oct. 7 dalton99a Apr 4 #140
This message was self-deleted by its author Scrivener7 Apr 4 #149
Post removed Post removed Apr 4 #147
This knee jerk slur really doesn't work in this situation anymore. Scrivener7 Apr 4 #150
I missed the post, but I bet I know what it said obamanut2012 Apr 4 #152
Yep. I bet you do too. Scrivener7 Apr 4 #175
Five prohibited acts atreides1 Apr 4 #153
K&R It saddens me to read denials of reality here, the deliberate and desperate attempt to deflect from the point msfiddlestix Apr 4 #156
Yea it's sad so many people are myopic one issue voters BannonsLiver Apr 4 #165
Agree completely. I have good friends who are making the ME War their political hill to die on. msfiddlestix Apr 4 #195
These 1-issue voters were just waiting for a fucking reason to hate Biden and tee-off on Jews in the process. Sick shit. SoFlaBro Apr 4 #241
100 percent true BannonsLiver Apr 5 #269
Self-governance sindri Apr 4 #157
For me it's not about defending Israel. ismnotwasm Apr 4 #158
This is not a war. This is vengeance. This is a slaughter by starvation and disease. Big Blue Marble Apr 4 #178
No, it isn't. ismnotwasm Apr 4 #187
And Israel has been killing and abusing Palestinians Big Blue Marble Apr 4 #240
And Palestinians have been killing Israelis' before Hamas, too. yagotme Apr 5 #267
Many more Palestinians have been killed radius777 Apr 5 #274
Then I guess that Israel is so much better than Palestinian terrorists yagotme Apr 5 #276
Israel is well funded by the west radius777 Apr 5 #279
Hamas is well funded/supplied by Iran. yagotme Apr 5 #281
Hamas is funded by Iran and Qatar, radius777 Apr 5 #283
Hamas doesn't want a 2-state solution, either. yagotme Apr 5 #284
Of course, that's why Bibi propped up Hamas, radius777 Apr 5 #285
Yes it is ... The Chef has more credibility than Bibi or Biden on this issue. Reality has to set in at some point uponit7771 Apr 6 #301
Yes. Please contact the White House about this. LymphocyteLover Apr 4 #160
Meh BannonsLiver Apr 4 #163
Israel has done a masterful job of of squandering both public opinion and the undisputed high ground they held. BobTheSubgenius Apr 4 #172
So nothing about the Hamas hostages? Mosby Apr 4 #176
That people are dying of starvation angrychair Apr 4 #179
Hamas is stealing most of the food aid. Mosby Apr 5 #288
A person can believe The Chef and want hostages to be freed, no one should support starving millions of people for uponit7771 Apr 6 #303
I realized it way early on when Netanyahu said that all Gaza's people were Hamas. He earlier had LiberalArkie Apr 4 #177
There will be no development on Gaza Beaches. Not without the world watching!! MenloParque Apr 4 #182
Agreed Deep State Witch Apr 4 #189
We ALL KNEW this was coming. Israel was NOT going to stop at just bombing a 'few hospitals', right? nt TeamProg Apr 4 #196
It's not a "war" it is a MASSACRE. nt TeamProg Apr 4 #200
I'm getting there. It's like Dresden in slow motion. carpetbagger Apr 4 #202
I consider Dresden a war crime by us, but it wasn't really one then obamanut2012 Apr 4 #224
And I didn't consider the opening Israeli response as such. carpetbagger Apr 4 #243
Same yankee87 Apr 4 #206
Slobodan had PLENTY of supporters as well. nt TeamProg Apr 4 #208
Some of the detailed and convoluted reasoning seen here to justify Aussie105 Apr 4 #212
Very well said obamanut2012 Apr 4 #226
Post removed Post removed Apr 4 #217
If you disagree, why not just answer? obamanut2012 Apr 4 #218
I get it agalisgv Apr 4 #222
+1, The Chef has been in more than one conflict and knows when his people are being targeted uponit7771 Apr 6 #302
same Evolve Dammit Apr 4 #233
I stopped in the 90's RANDYWILDMAN Apr 5 #278
Me too. Goddessartist Apr 6 #306
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»No longer defending Israe...»Reply #321