Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

General Discussion

Showing Original Post only (View all)


(8,665 posts)
Fri Nov 19, 2021, 01:46 PM Nov 2021

The Rittenhouse verdict should not have been a surprise [View all]

The evidence was plain and present.

- Rosenbaum was an aggressive, unstable man all night, making threats and trying to start fights with people and starting fires. This is on video. He chased Rittenhouse. This is on video. Rittenhouse retreated. This is on video.

- After shooting Rosenbaum, Rittenhouse again retreated. He told people, including the third person shot, he was running to the police who were fully visible and not far away. This is on video. He continued to retreat until he was chased down and attacked. First by an object to the back of the head, then by a man kicking him in the face, then by Huber with the skateboard.

This is on video.

- The third victim pulled back, raised his hands, then pulled his gun forward towards Rittenhouse after Rittenhouse pointed his rifle away.

This is on video. The victim testified to this under oath.

If people are angry, blame the media. They misled us on all of this from day one. What we were told was not true. That Rittenhouse was the one chasing Rosenbaum. That Rittenhouse was randomly shooting people. That he crossed state lines with a gun and driven by his mother. Again and again - for over a year, and with the video evidence available for all to see - we were told lie after lie, mischaracterization after mischaracterization by the media.

Why? Ratings. Partisanship. Polarization. Right now, they're salivating at the prospect of riots. "Oh no, wouldn't that just be the worst for us?!" And we let them do this, because we get lazy and readily believe what fits with our politics, beliefs, and narratives without questioning as vigorously as we should. And I include myself in this. I do it sometimes, too.

When I first started watching this trial, I had assumed Rittenhouse was guilty. I knew little. Only stories here and there. What got repeated on social media. Look at DU. Even during the trial, all kinds of false information was posted again and again, despite efforts to correct it. People thought the victims were black. A year after this all happened, still it persisted.

Justice cannot be about partisan teams. It can't be "We lost this one. Maybe we'll win the next one." People cannot be guilty just because we dislike them and they're on the "other team." They have to be guilty because of what the law and facts say. That's it.

The law and the facts prevailed here. There was no way reasonable jurors - unanimously - looked at all the available evidence and didn't have at least reasonable doubt in their minds. They had little choice but to acquit based on what was presented in this trial.

The judge had nothing to do with it. All this, "He's biased, a right-winger, a white supremacist, etc." came from the times he ruled for the defense. But he ruled for the prosecution plenty of times. He gave the prosecution plenty of leeway. The biggest point of contention - the video the defense wanted scrubbed from the trial - went the prosecution's way. He could've dismissed the trial at multiple points because of the prosecution's bad behavior. He didn't.

I'm sorry people are upset and surprised. I'm not happy, even if I agree with the legal outcome. People are still dead. People will still fight about this. Some will feel emboldened to worse behavior. Some will feel an injustice was done that will justify future violence.

No part of any of this is good.

But it shouldn't have been a surprise.

192 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
What the fuck was he doing there? lapfog_1 Nov 2021 #1
Why was anyone out there ? MichMan Nov 2021 #4
That was an issue for the police, not armed civilians lapfog_1 Nov 2021 #8
Gaige Grosskreutz was armed Polybius Nov 2021 #33
And why Grosskreutz aimed his gun, but didn't fire, at a man who also had a gun, I will never know. Steelrolled Nov 2021 #124
Why was anyone there? Yarnie Nov 2021 #6
Was he charged with a curfew violation? In any event, a curfew violation does not legally kelly1mm Nov 2021 #9
Charge was dismissed because the prosecution couldn't be bothered to prove it DetroitLegalBeagle Nov 2021 #27
Well, not quite. Dr. Strange Nov 2021 #67
I did hear something on that DetroitLegalBeagle Nov 2021 #72
Everyone would be charged with curfew manicdem Nov 2021 #115
It doesn't matter Sympthsical Nov 2021 #12
Are you sure you're not a lawyer? Tomconroy Nov 2021 #21
I've learned a lot during this Sympthsical Nov 2021 #36
It's boring but you would be good at it. Tomconroy Nov 2021 #89
It matters a great deal to the dead lapfog_1 Nov 2021 #28
It doesn't matter to the law Sympthsical Nov 2021 #34
Why was anyone there? pinkstarburst Nov 2021 #44
and yet for all the rioting and being out past curfew lapfog_1 Nov 2021 #68
Ya know, we have a two tier justice system, beyond denial. 2Gingersnaps Nov 2021 #91
Yes it should be a complete and total shock milestogo Nov 2021 #2
I agree but Rittenhouse should not have been there. Drunken Irishman Nov 2021 #3
I agree with every word you've just said Sympthsical Nov 2021 #20
Me too. forthemiddle Nov 2021 #109
Oh yeah. LiberatedUSA Nov 2021 #60
You touch on the crux of the argument Dave says Nov 2021 #75
The prosecutor did make that case... demmerick Nov 2021 #103
Agreed, not to the jury Dave says Nov 2021 #116
The jury is the only body that matters. Calista241 Nov 2021 #178
X1000 2Gingersnaps Nov 2021 #94
X1000 2Gingersnaps Nov 2021 #95
Not to assume others will get away with what we all know Hortensis Nov 2021 #97
Mr. Rittenhouse had a very good lawyer. Tomconroy Nov 2021 #5
No WHITT Nov 2021 #11
They aren't mutually exclusive. Tomconroy Nov 2021 #13
The judge decided a number of very important things in favor of the prosecution. Calista241 Nov 2021 #179
Mr. Rittenhouse had a lousy prosecutor (n/t) PJMcK Nov 2021 #14
That too. Tomconroy Nov 2021 #16
+10000000000000000 Celerity Nov 2021 #19
I think this was a case where the prosecutor was pressured into bringing Steelrolled Nov 2021 #125
You are not the first I heard suggest that Hav Nov 2021 #126
No, he had a judge who was a MAGA superfan. Initech Nov 2021 #23
No, Mr. Rittenhouse had a very "good" judge. nt Colgate 64 Nov 2021 #77
Facts are always good, thanks for spelling it out Hugh_Lebowski Nov 2021 #7
Wisconsin really needs to look at its gun laws Sympthsical Nov 2021 #17
The NRA guys at work were to the point of being giddy today hydrolastic Nov 2021 #150
Yup... IrishAfricanAmerican Nov 2021 #29
I saw one video clip Yarnie Nov 2021 #30
If the reporting had been fact-based and investigative, janterry Nov 2021 #10
Agree Raven123 Nov 2021 #101
It is absolutely not a surprise jcgoldie Nov 2021 #15
+1 Celerity Nov 2021 #24
This! nt. spicysista Nov 2021 #58
Agree. It's what I expected. Shrike47 Nov 2021 #83
Not surprised, but very sick and incredibly pissed off over this. Initech Nov 2021 #18
Fan Club! greenjar_01 Nov 2021 #22
Big fan of the law Sympthsical Nov 2021 #37
Yeah.. the judge has a fan quakerboy Nov 2021 #42
I was being swayed by your argument until... lame54 Nov 2021 #55
My intent is simply this Sympthsical Nov 2021 #57
Always fascinating to hear what a non-lawyer thinks Colgate 64 Nov 2021 #79
We all saw the same laws and instructions n/t Sympthsical Nov 2021 #107
One thing is "seeing" the law. Another is knowing Colgate 64 Nov 2021 #151
Well, I was just as informed as any jury member Sympthsical Nov 2021 #152
How do you imagine you're "just as informed as any jury member" when you Colgate 64 Nov 2021 #162
This message was self-deleted by its author demmerick Nov 2021 #110
I am a fan of justice. But in many cases, certainly NOT the law. dchill Nov 2021 #108
Yeah, well said. We have to live in the real world Hav Nov 2021 #25
There's been almost no analysis of the prosecution tirebiter Nov 2021 #26
The prosecution had an uphill fight from the start. Jedi Guy Nov 2021 #31
I've read Yarnie Nov 2021 #32
I'm wondering that as well AZSkiffyGeek Nov 2021 #76
almost immediately, I recall seeing the on the ground ones the day after Amishman Nov 2021 #87
Their argument was that Rittenhouse provoked Rosenbaum into Hav Nov 2021 #47
"Everyone takes a beating sometimes." Sympthsical Nov 2021 #52
That's exactly the phrase I meant Hav Nov 2021 #63
Beyond A Reasonable Doubt DallasNE Nov 2021 #118
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2021 #56
It was clear from the beginning that the defense had a much better case localroger Nov 2021 #35
I thought that gun charge was a slam dunk Sympthsical Nov 2021 #41
As A Straw Purchase I Felt The Same Way DallasNE Nov 2021 #138
K and r. BlackSkimmer Nov 2021 #38
The scariest thing I read here this past week GusBob Nov 2021 #98
This will spawn many more murders quakerboy Nov 2021 #39
Rittenhouse is like Harry Mudd navigating the bar fight in The Trouble with Tribbles localroger Nov 2021 #53
You're mixing metaphors brooklynite Nov 2021 #59
Ah, you're right. Thanks for the correction. localroger Nov 2021 #61
Thank you Philosophizing Fool Nov 2021 #40
I'm sorry, but you've got one giant crater-sized logical hole in your analysis. Tommy Carcetti Nov 2021 #43
What's that? Sympthsical Nov 2021 #49
You claim he retreated, and next then you say "After shooting Rosenbaum..." Tommy Carcetti Nov 2021 #62
Evidence shows Rosenbaum going for Rittenhouse Sympthsical Nov 2021 #70
So we're talking about a hand versus an AR-15. Tommy Carcetti Nov 2021 #74
Hands are deadly weapons Sympthsical Nov 2021 #80
AR-15s are much deadlier. Tommy Carcetti Nov 2021 #81
"AR-15s are much deadlier." And yet the facts show otherwise. EX500rider Nov 2021 #129
And head to head, someone with an AR-15 (or any gun for that matter) versus... Tommy Carcetti Nov 2021 #130
My argument is that if hands & feet kill more people then they are more dangerous statistically EX500rider Nov 2021 #131
Nope! ProfessorGAC Nov 2021 #163
If your chances of being killed by a object are higher then it is more dangerous to you... EX500rider Nov 2021 #165
So if you were in the military and went to war Redleg Nov 2021 #169
Life as a civilian and life in a warzone have very different dangers. EX500rider Nov 2021 #171
I don't get it Hav Nov 2021 #172
Of course the AR wins Zeitghost Nov 2021 #136
Person with the AR has advantage, of course. yagotme Nov 2021 #176
That is what happened n/t Devil Child Nov 2021 #51
With a huge "yada yada yada" in between. Tommy Carcetti Nov 2021 #64
I'll say this d_b Nov 2021 #45
Fuck that noise. orangecrush Nov 2021 #46
Thank you for taking the time to spell out, yet again, some basics re this case Devil Child Nov 2021 #48
I Believe WHITT Nov 2021 #50
I think so, too Sympthsical Nov 2021 #54
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!! nt Colgate 64 Nov 2021 #82
I agree pinkstarburst Nov 2021 #65
So, being a homeless ex con geardaddy Nov 2021 #111
No Zeitghost Nov 2021 #121
Huber was trying to stop a fleeing active shooter. Doing what the police failed to do. Progressive Jones Nov 2021 #148
"Fleeing". That's the problem. At that point, it's "Self Defense". Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #154
Running from a murder he'd just committed. Progressive Jones Nov 2021 #157
Um... No, citizens aren't "Supposed" to chase down a fleeing suspect, no. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #159
"Murder he'd just committed..." yagotme Nov 2021 #177
They were... from their point of view pinkstarburst Nov 2021 #160
Good post pinkstarburst Devil Child Nov 2021 #161
I don't think it has been a surprise to most people. Captain Stern Nov 2021 #66
Two of the guys he shot came after him after he had shot somebody else. Tommy Carcetti Nov 2021 #78
Yes, that's what we were told. Captain Stern Nov 2021 #88
... Crepuscular Nov 2021 #90
According to a cohort of Rittenhouse. Tommy Carcetti Nov 2021 #99
I really don't understand how this got turned into a cause celebre. demmerick Nov 2021 #114
Then, try to understand. Captain Stern Nov 2021 #122
Agreed. Politics does things to people. Steelrolled Nov 2021 #127
Your post and the OP here are both well said. Ace Rothstein Nov 2021 #166
Yep, I agree. The jury got it right based on the facts and evidence presented in the trial. Jedi Guy Nov 2021 #69
I think we can all agree that if a black guy came into Kenosha with bullwinkle428 Nov 2021 #71
Yeah, distinct possibility Sympthsical Nov 2021 #73
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2021 #134
As mentioned in another thread Zeitghost Nov 2021 #137
Thanks. TwilightZone Nov 2021 #84
Sympthsical.... Upthevibe Nov 2021 #85
Just watched it. Thanks. jeffreyi Nov 2021 #102
Thanks. Great assessment. nt Quixote1818 Nov 2021 #153
Without a firearm, Rittenhouse would have been fine that night. maxsolomon Nov 2021 #86
Had Rosenbaum not chased after Rittenhouse. all three would have been fine. Kaleva Nov 2021 #140
+1 Kaleva n/t Devil Child Nov 2021 #142
If nazis had not let another nazi off the hook Meowmee Nov 2021 #92
So the jurors are Nazis because they didn't return the verdict you wanted? Really? N/T Jedi Guy Nov 2021 #133
Do you realize just how stupid that sounds? MarineCombatEngineer Nov 2021 #167
It has nothing to do with what I wanted Meowmee Nov 2021 #185
So, in your mind, the jurors were nazi's for following the law as written in WI. MarineCombatEngineer Nov 2021 #186
You are on ignore Meowmee Nov 2021 #187
Well, that just breaks my heart. MarineCombatEngineer Nov 2021 #188
Regardless of the victims criminal history, IzzaNuDay Nov 2021 #93
I'm never surprised when a tRumv lovin fascist judge helps a fascist shooter go free. yaesu Nov 2021 #96
Verdict was just what the Judge ordered aeromanKC Nov 2021 #100
The prosecution were a bunch of knuckleheads DiegoGarcia Nov 2021 #104
This is a VERY sad day for America and people who deserve justice. ananda Nov 2021 #105
Only lesson I learned and already knew was.. EX500rider Nov 2021 #106
A well thought out argument. bluecollar2 Nov 2021 #112
Heres the thing brettdale Nov 2021 #113
If Rittenhouse had been black madville Nov 2021 #147
TOTALLY on point 👍 Raine Nov 2021 #117
I'm actually more surprised people genuinely thought he'd be convicted. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #119
It wasn't a surprise to most people. Captain Stern Nov 2021 #120
Agree 100% Steelrolled Nov 2021 #123
One of the hardest things recently has been trying Hav Nov 2021 #128
Great post. PDT69 Nov 2021 #132
I'm reading a Reddit thread of all things. ismnotwasm Nov 2021 #135
You're "ok" that the tRumpy judge tried his best to get an acquittal for a fellow fascist? yaesu Nov 2021 #139
At least 60 "liberals" on this board are ok with it. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2021 #144
Who the fuck said anything about being "ok" with any of this shit? ismnotwasm Nov 2021 #146
Post removed Post removed Nov 2021 #141
Post removed Post removed Nov 2021 #143
Has anyone figured out why they stated chasing Rittenhouse in the first place? ripcord Nov 2021 #145
Rittenhouse extinguished a fire set by Rosenbaum in a dumpster being pushed down the street Devil Child Nov 2021 #149
I find it hard to believe this whole thing started because Rittenhouse stopped an arson ripcord Nov 2021 #156
Somehow, progressives have found themselves Steelrolled Nov 2021 #158
I get that the people he shot were not angels Bucky Nov 2021 #164
Yes, exactly. nt Raine Nov 2021 #168
And Rittenhouse was their judge, jury, and executioner Redleg Nov 2021 #170
Rittenhouse is a dumbfuck who should have stayed home Hav Nov 2021 #174
The point is that most Dems aren't idolizing the 3 victims Redleg Nov 2021 #183
Some of the current protests have people that are idolizing them: yagotme Nov 2021 #190
Are these Democratic elected officials? Redleg Nov 2021 #191
Agreed. nt Quixote1818 Nov 2021 #155
You are missing something KT2000 Nov 2021 #173
It just doesn't matter Sympthsical Nov 2021 #175
Intent is very much KT2000 Nov 2021 #181
If a school shooter, etc., during the commission of a crime, yagotme Nov 2021 #180
A kid shows up to a demonstration KT2000 Nov 2021 #182
The problem is that under the law he did nothing wrong ripcord Nov 2021 #184
"Murdered 2 people". yagotme Nov 2021 #189
Is the Gungeon being remodeled or something? 48656c6c6f20 Nov 2021 #192
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The Rittenhouse verdict s...