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In reply to the discussion: The individual mandate: I and others warned that this was coming, too. [View all]treestar
(82,383 posts)131. I've made less than 20K as a self employed person
And my insurance is more than that. $400 a quarter. And I pay it now without government subsidy. It has a high deductible and pays for nothing so far, well, thank God I've never been sick enough yet for it to pay, but I have the peace of mine that if something horrid happens, it is there.
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The individual mandate: I and others warned that this was coming, too. [View all]
Zalatix
Sep 2012
OP
Darn and here I thought Newty Fruity was going to put families on the moon. Oh well.
southernyankeebelle
Sep 2012
#348
Well maybe it is or not but it should be mandated. Buy what you can afford and the government
southernyankeebelle
Sep 2012
#347
No! I support a Democratic Party plan for HealthCare over your Republican approach.
bvar22
Sep 2012
#358
McDonald's corporate has more than 50 employees. Just ONE of the mistakes in your argument.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#20
"The individual mandate is one of the key features of the ACA." Uh, NO IT IS NOT.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#282
Employers started decreasing ins. for empees several years ago. They started charging employees
Honeycombe8
Sep 2012
#142
The ACA originally had provisions to try and pry people away from employer-based health insurance.
BenzoDia
Sep 2012
#4
Pry them away? It's employers who want to get free of their healthcare obligation.
HiPointDem
Sep 2012
#125
Well, employers who offer insurance want to get a better deal with insurance companies by bringing a
BenzoDia
Sep 2012
#130
Employers get a better deal on insurance plans if they offer a larger number of people.
BenzoDia
Sep 2012
#157
no, that part i understand. it's the way you're using "opt out" i don't understand. it's not
HiPointDem
Sep 2012
#160
I'll stop when you can show how people earning just $20k a year won't get socked with an extra
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#7
You're living in denial. Medicare for All isn't happening in America. You're living a fantasy.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#69
Again, you are living in denial. I have a perfect and error-free point, you just have no case here.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#85
As I said, if you earn only $20K a year you will be ordered to pay over $80 a month for insurance.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#14
Nice try. You said: "you will be ordered to pay over $80 a month for insurance"
ProSense
Sep 2012
#42
Uh, yes you will. And there's a PENALTY for non-compliance to serve as enforcement.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#70
Oh but haven't you heard? The IRS can't enforce that penalty with levies or criminal proceedings.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#213
It says in 2014 the penalty is $95 per adult or 1% of family income, whichever is greater
dflprincess
Sep 2012
#114
The law says "no criminal action or liens can be imposed on people who don’t pay the fine"
BenzoDia
Sep 2012
#45
"You can also apply for a waiver asking not to pay an assessment if you don't qualify automatically"
ProSense
Sep 2012
#48
If you're earning above the poverty level you won't succeed in applying for a waiver. Give it up.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#53
What part of "You accused me of something I did not say" do you NOT understand?
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#73
Again: What part of "You accused me of something I did not say" do you NOT understand?
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#94
With that kind of skimpy coverage, you are guaranteed to go bankrupt if you have seious expenses
eridani
Sep 2012
#266
Afford is subjective. As defined some will be able to afford it and others won't.
TheKentuckian
Sep 2012
#355
The Republican WSJ article is WRONG. Since when do empers "care" about employee health coverage?
Honeycombe8
Sep 2012
#146
That person can take a penalty, instead. It won't be much. But 'm guessing the person will be GLAD
Honeycombe8
Sep 2012
#155
"They can get a job where an employer provides coverage"? and you call the WSJ Republican??
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#166
Everyone knows that. Common knowledge. Republicans also started the child credit, even for those
Honeycombe8
Sep 2012
#305
I think you need learn reality. We don't have single payer. We have an ins. system.
Honeycombe8
Sep 2012
#310
A little over 30 days to the election, and DUers are posting Wall Street Journal articles
Nye Bevan
Sep 2012
#17
The ACA isn't the problem, it's the Mandate. That's a Mitt Romney idea, a Heritage Foundation idea.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#35
Yup, quietly cede the country to the Koches or revolt, which is their plan...
freshwest
Sep 2012
#345
People earning $20k a year can't afford another $84-85 a month expense on their budget
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#25
Yes. A lot of people spend $0 on health care right now because their budgets are already overburdene
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#33
You will be ordered to pay over $80 a month. Failure to comply means a monetary PENALTY.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#78
The only way I can be wrong is if the tax penalty is not $695 in 2016. Otherwise... you lose.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#119
$695 or higher in 2016 is not wrong. Sorry, you're just off-base here. $695 in 2016!
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#143
"Should continue not having insurance"? More like, they have no choice but not to have it.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#139
No, single payer isn't free and baseless shit stirring isn't a valid argument. n/t
ProSense
Sep 2012
#182
Nobody said or implied single payer was free, and bullshit lies aren't valid arguments either.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#185
No, that's not what Medicare for All would cost. Not even close. Your facts are way off.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#211
I wonder if this is the same $80 figure that this OP is about? I don't understand what is happening.
freshwest
Sep 2012
#344
I'm sure it varies depending on where you live, but it is very possible where I live
bhikkhu
Sep 2012
#81
My income of $28k supports 4, the other example is for a single adult living alone
bhikkhu
Sep 2012
#163
Prior to ACA, your 20k a year worker would have been on the hook for $3400.
lumberjack_jeff
Sep 2012
#37
Not true. And who are you fooling with the "don't pay the penalty... nothing happens"? LOL!!!
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#47
And if your fantasyland rebuttal has any basis in reality, the consequences will be DIRE.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#136
Nothing "fantasyland" about it. It's right there in the law and the Supreme Court ruling.
BenzoDia
Sep 2012
#140
Fantasyland or Dystopia, pick it. You're either wrong, or you'll wish you were.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#144
Please provide one single piece of legislation that has been enacted ...
1StrongBlackMan
Sep 2012
#44
It's a mixed bag...Many of us will have to suffer while others will see a relief...
KoKo
Sep 2012
#50
"it will be hell for those of us wanting to have access to the the health care we used to have"
ProSense
Sep 2012
#54
Very few people gamed the Massachusett's, The Netherlands' or Switzerland's mandate
BenzoDia
Sep 2012
#102
The Act, however, bars the IRS from using several of its normal enforcement tools, such as criminal
ProSense
Sep 2012
#120
And as I said, if that fantasyland assessment is true, these consequences are unavoidable.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#127
There will be those who cheat society, but I think most of us will contribute to a fair system.
Hoyt
Sep 2012
#293
Of course any move toward a public health insurance program will lead to.....
Swede Atlanta
Sep 2012
#67
Individual states can get waivers and do their own thing, like Single Payer, as Vermont is doing. nt
patrice
Sep 2012
#96
No, quit your bitching and take some responsibility for what happens in your state. Even a moderate
patrice
Sep 2012
#113
Quit your bitching at me! Unless you think I can INDOCTRINATE the whole state by myself.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#117
Yep. Don't bother. Whatever you do is nothing anyway. There is no effect that you can have that is
patrice
Sep 2012
#121
Contrary to popular belief, one person cannot change the world. It takes the help of millions.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#124
And you have no clue about how you might become more than one? No wonder you are
patrice
Sep 2012
#129
Okay so what have you done to change the world, and how successful have you been?
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#134
I have done more than I can tell, some small things, some not so small things, ever since
patrice
Sep 2012
#158
Nevermind. You are either too ignorant or too incapable of understanding. Carry on with your whine.
patrice
Sep 2012
#196
You're just too confused and irrational to do anything but bitch aimlessly at me.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#220
If you think it's only about success as you define it, you are an authoritarian, apparently without
patrice
Sep 2012
#169
And for those who choose not to pay for insurance or pay the tax penalty, there is no step forward.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#216
You way over estimate your own perspicacity not only in thinking no one else expected that effect
patrice
Sep 2012
#106
Wow. I said "I and others". How did that come out to me thinking no one else saw this?
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#111
I am merely pointing out that to those, whom you may think it is news, it isn't. nt
patrice
Sep 2012
#118
That has nothing to do with the mandate. It has to do with perceived increase costs for the ACA...
Honeycombe8
Sep 2012
#138
The reality is employers have been dropping health insurance as a benefit for years
Samantha
Sep 2012
#147
And the costs are the result of a FOR PROFIT insurance system. Control the profit = begin to
patrice
Sep 2012
#173
Oh yeah, you still believe they'll only have to pay a $8/month tax penalty for non-compliance
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#199
it's my understanding that employers that dont offer health insurance will be required to pay a fine
notadmblnd
Sep 2012
#192
They'll save money by paying the tax penalty instead of paying for health care benefits
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#195
No denial here, your facts are flat out wrong and you're trying to force feed me nonsense
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#227
How Small Business Owners Get Health Insurance: they PAY for it, like everyone else.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#234
I said, someone upthread CLAIMED there will be no enforcement. That is, of course, wrong.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#244
All this woe-is-me talk about the individual mandate. Let's take a look at the #1 rated healthcare
4lbs
Sep 2012
#214
Math, math, math! The population of France is 65 million. America? 300 million.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#240
Do you know what I said when I said "The tax on the top earners is also a damned good idea"?
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#253
I think whatever "savings" there are from "large numbers" occurs well before 65 million insured.
Hoyt
Sep 2012
#295
France also subsidizes low income people, and the government DICTATES health care prices
eridani
Sep 2012
#280
True. I support all that. But the OP's main whine is about the individual mandate.
4lbs
Sep 2012
#336
Employers have steadily been dropping healthcare ANYWAY, because costs have been rising.
pnwmom
Sep 2012
#229
Factless? Emo? Oh I see, you lack for a coherent argument so instead you have to throw a tantrum.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#286
The ONLY reason why I and many of my friends voted for Obama was because he was against the
coldwaterintheface
Sep 2012
#294
You do remember that Obama OPPOSED the Individual Mandate during his campaign, right?
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#308
Bah, I thought it said CBS news. The rest of your argument was refuted in #316.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#327
Candidate Obama was very clear that he opposed The Mandate during Campaign 2008.
bvar22
Sep 2012
#319
That's absolutely correct. He ridiculed her for supporting the Mandate. And rightly. nt
Poll_Blind
Sep 2012
#333
He has won on one point. I will look for sources in the future that are not the WSJ.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#342