Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

General Discussion

Showing Original Post only (View all)

Jessy169

(602 posts)
Sat Sep 22, 2012, 02:20 PM Sep 2012

Limiting Hate Speech In America Is A Valid Debate [View all]

Despite frequently stated viewpoints to the contrary, there is and has been an ongoing discussion between academics, attorneys and concerned citizens about the clear and present danger that hate speech eminating from America poses to not only its own citizenry, but to the world at large.

All of us are impacted negatively by hate speech, and it is important to understand the consequences, especially when the "blessing" that was supposed to be the internet has in many ways proven to be a two edged sword -- on the one hand an awesome technological foundation for unlimited communication, entertainment and knowledge -- but on the other hand a powerful first weapon of choice weilded by those who are motivated to incite hatred.

The internet and growth of other mass communication technologies has been a recent development in America's long history of hate speech. In regards to hate speech, the result has been to provide a high tech megaphone to every lunatic in America, of which we have plenty. And now, through the internet and other communication technologies, the purveyors of hate are banding together under the common purpose of spreading their message. They are fund raising, recruiting, growing. Hate speech has become a for-profit business endeavor, with thousands of practitioners and many more thousands of devoted followers. Rob Stein, a Democrat insider, analysed the conservative echo chamber in 2004 and estimated that they received more than US$300 million annually.

The proponents of hate speech ARE organizing. Hate speech is no longer just the crazy guy on the street corner spewing his hatred to passers-by like it was thirty years ago, not even close. The internet has lauched hate speech into the stratosphere. Hate speech, eminating from America, has gone global.

The purpose of this post is primarily to provide a sampling of the many articles, essays and other documents available for those who might be interested in learning more about the ongoing debate. Many of the articles are well documented, with references to a wide range of authoritative sources.

But first, I'd like to make this point. When it comes to fervid first amendment absolutists who oppose any restrictions on free speech (except for the restrictions that we already have and accept), there are two basic categories.

The first category includes those strongly idealistic individuals who support civil rights and just causes, and feel that any infringement on free speech will put us on a "slippery slope" as regards our free speech rights, the idea being that if we give up the right to hate speech, then inevitably there will be more erosions of free speech rights to follow.

The second category, and by far the largest and most vocal, includes those individuals who support hate speech because they, or the groups that they support or are involved in, are the primary ones benefiting from the right to spread the messages of hate, either financially or for other reasons. It goes without saying that some individuals in this category pretend to defend against hate speech limits for the same reason as those in the first category, but their real reasons are not nearly as idealistic.

To those in the first category, I say that we should not fear taking a great leap forward for mankind just because there is a possibility that we might trip and fall. And to those in the second category, I say that hate is NOT an American value --your efforts to invoke fear and incite violence are being scrutinized -- you will not succeed in disrupting or stiffling debate on this very important topic.

SOME LINKS

While many 1st Amendment scholars defend the right of the filmmakers to produce this film (Innocence of Muslims), arguing that the ensuing violence was not sufficiently imminent, I spoke to several experts who said the trailer may well fall outside constitutional guarantees of free speech. "Based on my understanding of the events," 1st Amendment authority Anthony Lewis said in an interview Thursday, "I think this meets the imminence standard."

Finally, much 1st Amendment jurisprudence concerns speech explicitly advocating violence, such as calls to resist arrest, or videos explaining bomb-making techniques. But words don't have to urge people to commit violence in order to be subject to limits, says Lewis. "If the result is violence, and that violence was intended, then it meets the standard."

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/18/opinion/la-oe-chayes-innocence-of-muslims-first-amendment-20120918

For many years, freedom of expression was seen as the handmaiden of tolerance, freeing minority voices from majority control. But in recent years, this liberal consensus has fractured. Many have come to regard the absolutist position on free expression not as a bulwark of, but as an impediment to, a just and tolerant society.

http://www.ala.org/Template.cfm?Section=Intellectual_Freedom_Issues&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=2424

The right to freedom of expression is an internationally recognized human right. However, freedom of expression is not absolute. Both national constitutions and international conventions allow restrictions on speech to safeguard other societal values. Among human rights lawyers and scholars there is a heated debate as to whether hate speech deserves free speech protection. Both sides offer powerful arguments.

http://www.enotes.com/hate-speech-reference/hate-speech

Violent acts of hate are generally preceded by hate speech that is expressed publicly and repeatedly for years, including by public figures, journalists, leading activists, and even the state. Some examples include Anders Behring Breivik’s terrorist acts in Norway (June 2011), the assassination of Kansas abortion provider Dr. George Tiller (May 2009) and other abortion providers in the 1990’s, the Rwandan genocide against the Tutsis (1994), the ethnic cleansing of Bosnian Muslims in Bosnia-Herzegovina (1992-1995), and the Nazi Holocaust.

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/reader-diaries/2011/09/21/limits-free-speech-5

"It is not clear to me that the Europeans are mistaken," Jeremy Waldron, a legal philosopher, wrote in The New York Review of Books last month, "when they say that a liberal democracy must take affirmative responsibility for protecting the atmosphere of mutual respect against certain forms of vicious attack."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/11/world/americas/11iht-hate.4.13645369.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Free speech jurisprudence is not a seamless web. There are fissures, inconsistencies, and aberrations. Despite the crystalline text of the First Amendment, Congress does make laws that abridge the freedom of speech. Whether those laws withstand constitutional challenge is, as always, up to the chair umpire, i.e., the Supreme Court.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bennett-l-gershman/stolen-valor-act_b_1279502.html

For the last thirty years, conservative activists in particular have been quick to grasp the potential of apocalyptic rhetoric, forever reminding their listeners of the terrible threats posed by “militant gays,” “liberal educators,” “baby killers,” and “godless politicians.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/01/15/american-political-hate-dominic-sandbrook-on-its-roots.html

Hate speech is shifting our culture, creating a social licence to commit political violence against people who belong to designated groups: Jews, greenies, Muslims, progressives of any stripe. It is part of the deliberate political programme of the extreme right in the USA, and is funded by various ‘philanthropists’, most notably the Koch brothers, who own America’s biggest private corporation, Koch Industries (a major polluter).

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2693120.html

The most stunning growth among all groups came among the rightwing anti-government "Patriot" groups, which the report classifies as those groups which perceive the "federal government as their primary enemy." The "Patriot" groups grew from 149 groups in 2008, skyrocketed to 512 in 2009, jumped to 824 in 2010, and last year continued to surge to 1,274. That's a 755% growth spurt in just three years.

https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/03/08

The question is, do the benefits of hate speech laws override the disadvantages. Given the fact that hate speech is operational in creating a network of anti-government underground groups, radical armed groups, killings, a repressed society, fearful, unifying and linking haters and anti-government extremists across the country, we are just one national even away from serious problems, hate speech has facilitiated the rise of the right wing we now see operating, their irrational lies and misinterpretations just an extension of their hatred. Calls for assassination are only prevented by an overloaded law enforcement, how long until they are no longer able to hold back the tide.

And many, many more...

75 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
this is not going to wash. cali Sep 2012 #1
Horizontal peer 2 peer democracy and self-regulation tama Sep 2012 #8
DU is a private for profit corporation Riftaxe Sep 2012 #47
Let's address cash speech first. sadbear Sep 2012 #2
Money is speach, a promise tama Sep 2012 #12
And who gets to determine what constitutes "hate speech"?? Bad_Ronald Sep 2012 #3
Peer 2 peer juries, like here on DU? tama Sep 2012 #10
DU is not governed by the First Amendment. former9thward Sep 2012 #26
That's the point. tama Sep 2012 #30
Oh, brother. Yes, let's build a million more court-houses for "hate speech" cases. WinkyDink Sep 2012 #62
I don't understand how the OP can't see the danger Impious Sep 2012 #66
Yes, it's a legitimate debate, JoeyT Sep 2012 #4
Excellent post, JoeyT... shrdlu Sep 2012 #16
When I'm called to jury service on DU tama Sep 2012 #31
No. Not just "no", but HELL FUCKING NO! Edweird Sep 2012 #38
Deny Jebus is our one true lord and savior and you get sent to the pokey Major Nikon Sep 2012 #57
Privatizing social security is also a Valid Debate cthulu2016 Sep 2012 #5
+1,000! Zalatix Sep 2012 #6
Censorship by any other name is the repealed Fairness Doctrine. Octafish Sep 2012 #7
I don't think I can agree zellie Sep 2012 #9
The problem is that not all good speech cancels bad or hate speech. xchrom Sep 2012 #11
One more time: Who decides what is hate speech? cali Sep 2012 #15
Do you want to go to prison for saying "Fuck the Pope for hating gay people"? (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #58
Member of the same community here, and I disagree with you fully. Bluenorthwest Sep 2012 #68
there is so much wrong with your post. cali Sep 2012 #13
This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2012 #27
K&R Cali! X 1000 COLGATE4 Sep 2012 #49
Totally, 100% agree n/t Oilwellian Sep 2012 #59
just wait til someone decides YOUR position is hate speech n/t ProdigalJunkMail Sep 2012 #14
Alert it tama Sep 2012 #32
Here's my valid debate glacierbay Sep 2012 #17
I'm just a little confused. zellie Sep 2012 #20
I don't understand it either glacierbay Sep 2012 #23
The point is that it is a valid debate Jessy169 Sep 2012 #29
My answer remains the same glacierbay Sep 2012 #60
Blahdeblahblah. It isn't "ironic" in the least, because, AHEM, your OP has not been deleted. WinkyDink Sep 2012 #61
IMO the problem is more that we live in a connected world now. CJCRANE Sep 2012 #18
It's like the news... Lightbulb_on Sep 2012 #64
Do they even teach Civics in schools anymore? If they do, you apparently weren't paying Egalitarian Thug Sep 2012 #19
+1 and well said. nt Codeine Sep 2012 #40
+1 sarcasmo Sep 2012 #48
People don't have a right not to be offended. Odin2005 Sep 2012 #21
but...but... Bad_Ronald Sep 2012 #25
A Message To Frank Collins... KharmaTrain Sep 2012 #28
It's already illegal to incite or commit crime with hate speech. porphyrian Sep 2012 #22
No thanks SickOfTheOnePct Sep 2012 #24
+1 sarcasmo Sep 2012 #50
You say "fervid First Amendment absolutist" Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #33
Wish I could rec a post n/t SickOfTheOnePct Sep 2012 #34
For the win. nt Codeine Sep 2012 #41
+1 n/t tammywammy Sep 2012 #55
I believe your posts may have an ulterior motive. Edweird Sep 2012 #35
one mans junk is another mans treasure ruffburr Sep 2012 #36
Yes, our strict beliefs in total free speech gives you the right 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #37
So if I say someones religion or some part of it is stupid ...that's hate speech? pffft! L0oniX Sep 2012 #39
I think you are very very wrong Marrah_G Sep 2012 #42
Yep= this is the third or fourth post COLGATE4 Sep 2012 #51
I have an idea - let's take the lowest common denominator and make that the bar Taverner Sep 2012 #43
Oh, look. Pakistani Federal Railways Minister Haji Ghulam Ahmed Bilour agrees with you! MNBrewer Sep 2012 #44
You can debate it all you want, but "hate speech" can be used as a catch-all term. Socal31 Sep 2012 #45
Speech restrictionists are a scary bunch. The First Amendment is always their biggest impediment. tritsofme Sep 2012 #46
Your quote DonCoquixote Sep 2012 #52
Try reading the First Amendment again. You think Jefferson didn't know about "hate speech"?? WinkyDink Sep 2012 #53
Its good to see the discussion going on, its also good to see its a very small group ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #54
Would This Be Permitted Or Prohibited Under Your New Interpetation Of The First Amendment? DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2012 #56
Freedom of speech is a fundamental right in my book. MichaelMcGuire Sep 2012 #63
I think the OP has a problem distinguishing hatred of a notion versus hatred of an individual Impious Sep 2012 #65
This is an extremely naive and foolish viewpoint. MicaelS Sep 2012 #67
What is the point of arguing this OVER and OVER without at least looking at the case law (briefly?) Romulox Sep 2012 #69
+1000 n/t SickOfTheOnePct Sep 2012 #70
Once again, the Absolutetists... 99Forever Sep 2012 #71
Your act is getting old because you are so deeply wrong and also because you are Bluenorthwest Sep 2012 #72
I would bet, too, that the OP seeks protection of her own religion Impious Sep 2012 #73
No, thank you. I support freedom of speech, and that includes the right to speak hatefully NYC Liberal Sep 2012 #74
I would like to know how you came to the conclusion that... Impious Sep 2012 #75
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Limiting Hate Speech In A...