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LiberalLovinLug

(14,174 posts)
65. Never heard the term "angle of attack" before?
Thu Apr 23, 2020, 04:41 PM
Apr 2020

Whatever. semantics again.
BTW, one can have an angle of attack and it be based on facts as well. Those two are not mutually exclusive. In fact, facts are more potent of an angle of attack than something that can be proven wrong later.
Which is why I pointed out that yours and others angle that Sanders followers worshipped the man more than the progressive platform, is now proven wrong, with those ardent supporters turning on him for caving in on supporting now someone who does not share the same goals.

Sanders worked very hard for Hillary. 39 rallies wasn't enough? His efforts got more percent of his former supporters to vote for Hillary, than Hillary's efforts to convince her former supporters to vote for Obama. So there's that.

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

Fully 12 percent of people who voted for Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., in the 2016 Democratic presidential primaries voted for President Trump in the general election.
........
And according to one 2008 study, around 25 percent of Clinton primary voters in that election ended up voting for Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., in the general.


So please stop with the Bernie bashing, insinuating he won't help Democrats, when the past evidence proves the opposite

Your second point,

A minority of Clinton supporters were also ugly-mean to both Obama and Sanders. But one difference is that the more insulting, offputting critics of Biden, are not Democrats. Many were Russian and GOP trolls whose purpose was to rile up folks like you, but of the legitimate American voter more extreme critics, misdubbed Bernie Bros, as Sanders had the most diverse base of any candidate,...are independents, young people, new voters, many of who were never going to vote for a Democratic establishment candidate anyways. So there will be a very small percent of actual ex-Sander Democrats voting for Trump.

But, we need the majority of those votes. Whether you like or even understand those folks or not. ( I certainly cannot fathom someone who could be "undecided" at this point) You have to separate logistics from emotion. Someone else made the point that if you, for the sake of argument, divide D and R loyal support traditionally 45% - 45%. Its that 10% we are fighting for. That 10% IMO would have shifted more towards Sanders than will towards Biden. Which is why Sanders not only had the most positive exciting platform IMO, but he also had the best shot at beating Trump.

Not that we cannot win with Biden of course. We can and damn right should. And Sanders and his ex's have to swallow their disappointment and as usual, try and work change from within. We are used to it. It was vote blue no matter who last time, and its the same this time. Be sure great to have a little empathy, for the twice bridesmaids, honey instead of vinegar, but we're not counting on it.

Why does presenting a strong argument back be defined as "baiting"? Where do you see that? I present links to my assertions. But don't worry, I've never alerted on anyone. Because I don't believe in trying to silence a debate partner from an argument that way. I don't "bait" because I don't alert anyways. What would be the point? Alerting because it looks like one is being out debated, or has a thin skin, is not a good look either.

You called my writing "florid"? Gee thanks ehrnst. Honestly, I just enjoy writing and debating. And I gather you do too Its never my intention to do anything other than that. I just enjoy and respect folks like yourself with passion and chops to have it out. Instead of just lurking. Its never personal BTW

cheers.

*We've been here before, and not that long ago. elleng Apr 2020 #1
+1 and Kick and recommend OP bronxiteforever Apr 2020 #4
only reason republicans stay even close anywhere but reddest states is dem and left certainot Apr 2020 #19
+1000 BadgerMom Apr 2020 #23
"it is yelling HOAX in a covid theater" - excellent metaphor erronis Apr 2020 #28
Well since we know DownriverDem Apr 2020 #24
Step 1 - Assure Voting Rights are bullet-proof. OAITW r.2.0 Apr 2020 #2
First thing we need to do is STOP saying Republicans want Small Government. Caliman73 Apr 2020 #3
They want all that Pantagruel Apr 2020 #7
The purported reason? Lower taxes. The real reason? Destroy social programs... Caliman73 Apr 2020 #11
there's evidence that the russians pumped up the teabags certainot Apr 2020 #22
Not sure that they plan to saddle "their" kids/grandkids with the bill. erronis Apr 2020 #29
Like major cuts to Social Security and Medicare? Odawg Apr 2020 #35
Their idea of small government is one branch instead of three world wide wally Apr 2020 #27
No it isn't. Caliman73 Apr 2020 #32
Excellent post! You've nailed it. (nt) scarletwoman Apr 2020 #36
Right on the money!! bluestarone Apr 2020 #60
Correct. Their "golden age to go back to" has been... JHB Apr 2020 #61
Of course they don't want small government. Buckeye_Democrat Apr 2020 #38
Yet we fall into their framing of the argument ALL the time. Caliman73 Apr 2020 #44
You're correct! Buckeye_Democrat Apr 2020 #46
+1 crickets Apr 2020 #49
Good article wryter2000 Apr 2020 #5
Bring back the Fairness Doctrine Metro135 Apr 2020 #12
That applied only to broadcast channels and was sometimes a 1-2 min editorial SharonAnn Apr 2020 #21
a new FD is impossible and not necessary. even 'free speechers' here think the talk radio certainot Apr 2020 #30
Break up conglomerates; create an FCC that works for us instead of the oligarchs. Hermit-The-Prog Apr 2020 #54
K&R n/t handmade34 Apr 2020 #6
Slaying the Republican beast will require Dems to do things once considered unimaginable, such as Jake Stern Apr 2020 #8
I would not attempt to do those things until and unless we've achieved widespread defeat of Repugs scarletwoman Apr 2020 #9
I would be very careful about attempting to pack the SCOTUS. totodeinhere Apr 2020 #47
K&R dmr Apr 2020 #10
Take the Senate and kill the fillibuster for starters. Wounded Bear Apr 2020 #13
Absolutely! Electing a Dem president won't work unless we take the Senate also. scarletwoman Apr 2020 #15
The GOP will scream about deficits the moment Biden is sworn in. SouthernCal_Dem Apr 2020 #14
We HAVE to take the Senate, that's all there is to it! (nt) scarletwoman Apr 2020 #16
Let them scream while pointing out over and over WHO put those deficits there. crickets Apr 2020 #18
Yeah, like that's been working the last 50 years or so... Wounded Bear Apr 2020 #20
We will look forward, not backward. theaocp Apr 2020 #17
You nailed it. Shipwack Apr 2020 #45
I don't think he's that obtuse Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2020 #58
Sanders, Warren, and Schiff have shown Dems how to stand up and fight cp Apr 2020 #25
When they go low (which is all they know), kick them in the 'nads. Repeatedly. OMGWTF Apr 2020 #37
Go straight for the heart of the beast. Which is pure artifice. JudyM Apr 2020 #51
"to assume that the public will naturally come to realize...." LiberalLovinLug Apr 2020 #26
Bravo, bravo. Many good points. erronis Apr 2020 #31
Great post! It's been infuriating for years, to watch Repug strategists run rings around Democrats. scarletwoman Apr 2020 #33
+1000 LiberalLovinLug Apr 2020 #48
Too true. I wish I knew an answer to that. I wish you were a Democratic Party consultant. scarletwoman Apr 2020 #50
"I wish you were a Democratic Party consultant" LiberalLovinLug Apr 2020 #53
Excellent Post! OMGWTF Apr 2020 #40
In a way, small government is the only thing saving us. AtheistCrusader Apr 2020 #34
It is not foolish to think the public realizes that a strong safety net and standingtall Apr 2020 #39
Exactly. The Dem's job is to relentlessly remind the public what the republicans really stand for. scarletwoman Apr 2020 #43
First time President Biden flubs a word, right wing will be on fire with "25th AMENDMENT" and it BamaRefugee Apr 2020 #41
Yes. It would have been Hillary to wear that badge LiberalLovinLug Apr 2020 #52
Bernie has his own baggage, and his reputation is certainly not blemish free. ehrnst Apr 2020 #56
"Works both ways" principle LiberalLovinLug Apr 2020 #63
You know, pointing out facts isn't "an angle" or an "attack," just because it ehrnst Apr 2020 #64
Never heard the term "angle of attack" before? LiberalLovinLug Apr 2020 #65
And more of the same...plus a shot across the bow ehrnst Apr 2020 #66
Wow! did I do all that? LiberalLovinLug Apr 2020 #67
I'm not baiting, I'm pointing out logical fallacies you are using when you use them. ehrnst Apr 2020 #68
For the most part, I feel I do the same as your title line for your latest post LiberalLovinLug Apr 2020 #69
You keep confirming my observations with each post. ehrnst Apr 2020 #70
I don't understand how I am strawmanning(?) LiberalLovinLug Apr 2020 #71
And once again, you keep on substantiating my observations... ehrnst Apr 2020 #72
It really was nice sparring with you. Maybe nice is the wrong word. Engaging? LiberalLovinLug Apr 2020 #73
Gave up on "backing out nicely," eh? ehrnst Apr 2020 #74
We have to get Biden elected first which is not a given IMHO. totodeinhere Apr 2020 #42
Do you think it's going to be easier (or harder) for them to do that under the circumstances? Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2020 #59
Republicans have been suppressing the vote for years now because it helps them win elections. totodeinhere Apr 2020 #62
They're not going to be that powerful. They are going to be in the position of German Nazis in 1946. NNadir Apr 2020 #55
It is very simple. Our democratic leaders need to stop playing nice. nt Hotler Apr 2020 #57
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