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In reply to the discussion: The Liberal Gun Club: We support Fix NICS [View all]Hoyt
(54,770 posts)81. Need to go through FFL who can lose their business if they don't keep records. Private sellers have
not proven reliable in past, most willing to sell to anyone with a fistful of cash.
An FFL will also properly check IDs, etc. Most private sellers -- assuming they even go through the process -- will just want a link or piece of papers saying they did the minimum required.
If one is not willing to pay the $35 or so to an FFL to insure some degree of accountability, maybe they just shouldn't be selling guns. That's the problem with way too many gunners, they aren't nearly as responsible as they want us to believe.
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And ban assault weapons like AR15. And ban large capacity magazines. And do fun buybacks
blake2012
Mar 2018
#1
Something is better than nothing, and this lays the groundwork for future efforts
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#2
The political momentum being built up on gun control cannot end with just the NICS fix
blake2012
Mar 2018
#3
We don't have good data because NRA/GOP banned data - they're afraid of real studies
sharedvalues
Mar 2018
#60
Above I cited a well-done study that says fed funding ban is a big problem.
sharedvalues
Mar 2018
#75
Ask the head of Everytown For Gun Safety for the funds- he's worth $50 billion:
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#131
A gun control advocate that won't kick in 1% of their net worth is insincere, at best
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#153
Problem is gun-fetishists deny proof. RAND article: solid. Your attacks: ad hominem.
sharedvalues
Mar 2018
#168
Close the private sale/gun show loop hole. Not much of a NICS fix without that.
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#4
Required background checks won't work if the checks themselves are faulty- hence Fix NICS
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#5
"I notice you refuse to answer my question about whether a schizophrenic should have a gun." I did
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#30
"How do you propose to prevent schizophrenics from buying guns?" By court hearing
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#39
What are you talking about? Who would set this hearing? Who would be the parties?
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#42
A civil order for treatment, not necessarily involuntary confinement in a mental hospital
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#45
That does NOT capture mental illness diagnoses, only involuntary treatment judicial orders.
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#46
So you think your ends justify any means, even if it means pissing on the Constitution?
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#64
Have you discontinued physically abusing your significant other? I can do leading questions, too...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#94
That is just silly. You obviously just want to engage in insults instead of a thoughtful discussion.
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#102
Oh, please-you've been trying to pin a strawman argument on me almost since you got to this thread
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#115
You don't offer a plan to stop the dangerously mentally ill from getting guns.
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#123
Not if there is notice and opportunity for hearing before it is posted in NICS.
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#157
What specific diagnoses should be reported to the database? Mental illness on its own is too...
Marengo
Mar 2018
#87
Maybe we could apply the same standard to speech, or other things in the Constitution.
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#96
Um, no one shot up a school because they were exercising the 1st, 5th or 8th Am.
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#98
"the...mentally ill are the vast majority of mass shooters. You know that." No, *you claimed that...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#99
You're trying to put a lot of claims in my mouth that I have not made, and will not make
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#116
You trusted Feinstein on her 'assault weapons bans'- but not on this?
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#126
"Have fun researching me? I'm honored..." Well, knowledge *is* power...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#129
Kinda pathetic to call a fellow DUer "Opposition." That's supposed to be the GOP.
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#137
Debating does not make me "the Opposition"... unless you're not a Democrat. nt
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#158
Funny, I don't read that sentence in the exchange above. Care to point it out?
X_Digger
Mar 2018
#173
Discussion of gun control at DU tends to attract self-appointed "DU Political Officers"...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#175
What part of "You're not actually in charge of DU" do you not understand?
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#188
No one called you "the opposition" -and BTW, Democrats most certainly do "opposition research"...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#179
FIx NICS would be huge IMO - would this not also increase liability for acting outside the system?
hexola
Mar 2018
#6
Private sales without checks would still be legal- so open NICS to private sellers...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#7
This would be the right way to do it but the gun prohibition people wont ever do t
Lee-Lee
Mar 2018
#8
Someone on CNN described a check system - where buyer and seller get temp permits
hexola
Mar 2018
#10
Misguided attempts to derail reform because "it isn't good enough"...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#40
The 1/6/16 HIPAA rule does not require reporting of mental illness diagnoses.
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#43
The ACLU has gone on record strongly opposing what you propose. I concur with them:
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#49
You haven't got the votes, and would rather reject a partial fix than compromise
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#71
Category error. Societal right to keep kids alive wins out over right to own lots of guns
sharedvalues
Mar 2018
#62
Logical fallacy. "Think of the children" is an appeal to emotion, not an argument
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#69
Category error: gun restrictions ARE constitutional. Your original pt re Const: category error.
sharedvalues
Mar 2018
#77
No. Not without a court order. What you want is no different than the 'terrorism watch lists'...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#66
Well, that response suggests you think your cause is more important than due process.
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#108
"(T)he process I suggest has been held constitutional." In which Federal court? Cite, please.
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#113
Goldberg v. Kelly-SCOTUS held that pre-termination administrative hearings comply with due process
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#120
I have no problem with that, provided a) there are no ex parte hearings, b) they are not held
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#128
I can see the Second Amendment Foundation jumping in on such cases
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#144
I find it interesting that some here think guns are more important than food.
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#167
It is you who is siding with the state; the ruling GOP wants no gun control.
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#176
There are several more upthread. All that straw in one place is a fire hazard!
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#183
Kindly point out where such a sentiment was expressed. We'll wait...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#180
When you demanded more protections for denial of gun purchases than are afforded food.
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#184
Citizens should be afforded legal counsel in any legal (or quasi-legal) dealings with the state
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#189
That merely shows that welfare hearings are unfair, not that guns are more important than food
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#187
No, you were asserting the NICS administrative hearings I was suggesting were unconstitutional.
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#190
You will not improve the lot of welfare recipients one iota by restricting others' rights
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#192
Due process is a "roadblock"? This isn't 'Authoritarian Underground', and your ...contributions...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#199
Why Senate Democrats are considering holding up a gun-control bill from one of their own
sl8
Mar 2018
#14
History repeats: "Screw that 'half a loaf'! We want the whole thing, or nothing!"
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#26
NICS Fix is what is possible now. Would you prefer to "take a dive" for strategic reasons...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#67
"As long as private sales aren't subject to background checks" I address this in post #7
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#23
Sorry, private sellers need to go through FFLs who are accountable for keeping records, etc.
Hoyt
Mar 2018
#51
Not neccessary if private sellers can use the NICS, and its use is made mandatory
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#73
Need to go through FFL who can lose their business if they don't keep records. Private sellers have
Hoyt
Mar 2018
#81
Let' run through your list....oh we don't have to because NONE were private sales.
AncientGeezer
Mar 2018
#91
"Men will walk upright now, women will smile and the children will laugh,...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#195
No doubt, gunners are afraid of, and have no regard for, society. Time that changes.
Hoyt
Mar 2018
#197
I know damn well how gunners are. FFLs will at least do the background check correctly, not wanting
Hoyt
Mar 2018
#205
FFL's do NOT do the checks they file for checks....DOJ, specificly...ATF does the checks
AncientGeezer
Mar 2018
#207
It *was* implemented- but only made mandatory on the Federal level for gun dealers
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#24
Is there a reason you feel it's unreasonable to let a person support their local range...
moriah
Mar 2018
#92
Do you want to give local ranges/dealers a monopoly on checks? They'll still be free to do them...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#93
They already have it, and again, I'm trying to throw the people against UBCs crumbs.
moriah
Mar 2018
#106
So-called Liberal Gun Club has only 2000 members. They lobby Democrats, pushing lax gun
Hoyt
Mar 2018
#53
If you can't get Fix NICS, you certainly can't get even more restrictive laws passed
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#74
That's no more or less than your opinion, and you are perfectly free to express it.
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#95
It is a fact. It does NOTHING to expand background checks; it does NOTHING to facilitate reporting.
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#100
Tell that to Sandy Hook Promise, who support this- and Dianne Feinstein, who co-sponsored it:
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#105
Well, Dems will take these crumbs when it's the only game in town. Like I said, nice try. nt
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#107
Has it occured to you that those Dem co-sponsors might actually think it would work?
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#117
Just think them as a source of photos of white gun owners, if nothing else
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#68
Well, that's pretty much what you see in the so-call Liberal Gun Club. My guess is they are just
Hoyt
Mar 2018
#82
As opposed to locking doors so cops can't get in? Who profits from that? Robbers, right?
AncientGeezer
Mar 2018
#114
"Trying to fool people into believing they are something different " An evidence-free claim...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#119
"Few Democrats lobby legislators to promote more guns in more places." And does LGC do that?
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#148
You sought those photos out, and downloaded them. Do you only download ones with white gun owners?
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#151
Go ahead, search Under Liberal Gun Club and see what you get. Think I saw Dana Loesch.
Hoyt
Mar 2018
#191
I don't have to, since *you* made the claim- and can't back it up. As usual...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#193
Your photo choices merely demonstrate your editorial preference, no more and no less
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#181
How about universal background checks. The real stuff, not the GOP backed fake bill
sharedvalues
Mar 2018
#59
Well then, get busy rounding up the votes. Meanwhile, spare us the "all or nothing" schtick
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#101
Tell that to Dianne Feinstein, who was one of the original co-sponsors:
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#109
This is Cornyn's baby. She just signed on. Because it's the only game in town. nt
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#112
Then support it. There aren't the votes for a AWB, and likely won't be until 2021 at the earliest.
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#118
Then urge your Congresscritters to do both- that's the only way change will happen.
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#130
Does "working" mean "attacking the actions of your biggest supporter in Congress...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#147
In my case, you are. Or do you presume to vet who's a Democrat, and who isn't?
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#182
I did not call you my "Opposition" or brag about doing "Opposition Research" on you.
SunSeeker
Mar 2018
#185
"We're all supposed to be on the same team" 'This team' has many, MANY factions...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#194
Assault rifle bans are security theater inspired by moral panics...
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#212
They're using children to promote a moral panic, and we've seen the like before:
friendly_iconoclast
Mar 2018
#213