cleduc
cleduc's Journallink to full police report on robbery
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/08/15/ferguson-police-report.pdfI'm going to try to answer that carefully so I don't get pummeled or start trouble
It certainly doesn't excuse shooting a suspect to death who has their hands up, that's for sure - if that's what really happened as some allege.
But it might explain some aspect of or motivation for the original altercation that took place near the cruiser - if that's what really happened as some allege.
I'm suspicious of the conduct of the police here but I'm just trying to file this stuff away for consideration while we work our way towards the actual facts on what happened (as best as they can be determined) before trying to pass final judgement on the police or Mike Brown.
If Mike had only been wearing a Hoodie ...
... he might be alive today ....
(/sarcasm)
The potential problem as I understand it is
A person who does not have bipolar hypomania (as I believe Robin did) can develop that condition with Parkinson's drugs or treatment. In Robin's case, since he appears to have already had bipolar hypomania, Parkinson's drugs or treatments can exacerbate it into full blown mania, psychosis and at times, double down on the depression effects of both conditions. It's apparently pretty rare for one to have bipolar and then develop Parkinson's. And they don't seem to have much in terms of knowledge or treatment options when that happens.
I posted more on this here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5386570
The prognosis he may have faced after trying the few options they had without success might have been:
- you won't be able to do your manic comedy to make people happy anymore because what little medication we have for this will mess that up
- you're going to go nuts at times with full blown mania & psychosis because from this point forward, we'll be trying to manage a moving target with eroding dopamine levels
- your depression may be twice as bad as any of the awful depression you've experienced to date because it will snowball with both conditions - but we may be able to take the edge off that
- in this condition, you're likely to be a burden on your family and will be hard pressed to enjoy life as you have known it
= Robin Williams as we've known him is over
So he skipped the bow and exited the planet stage left.
The point is: this is different than the Michael J Fox's Parkinson's diagnosis for example, because Robin appears to have had a preexisting condition that would be significantly complicated with this new Parkinson's diagnosis.
just my two cents
I think Robin lived with a mood disorder much of his life
Bipolar hypomania. I posted about that here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5377206
and here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5381825
Parkinson's on it's own can bring on mood disorders like anxiety and clinical depression.
Both affect dopamine levels.
Mix a bipolar depression with a clinical depression brought on by Parkinson's and it's not hard to imagine how one might get to feeling pretty low.
I happened to look this up:
Bipolar Affective Disorder and Parkinson’s Disease
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/crim/2011/154165/
Accepted 19 October 2011
Little is known about comorbidities of bipolar disorder such as Parkinson’s disease. A case history and a literature survey indicate that bipolar disorder is linked with or influences Parkinson’s disease and vice versa. Underlying mechanisms are poorly understood, and, more importantly, no treatment options are established in such double diagnoses.
...
In all cases manic or hypomanic episodes had already appeared before the onset of Parkinson’s disease and, furthermore, the authors supposed that Parkinson’s disease accelerates the frequency of episodes.
...
For the special case—the combination of Parkinson’s and bipolar disorder—no specific data for treatment options exist.
...
In conclusion, too little is known about treatment options in bipolar patients with comorbid disease. Further investigations are needed.
and this:
Bipolar affective disorder and Parkinson's disease: a rare, insidious and often unrecognized association.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12548347
and this:
Medial forebrain bundle stimulation as a pathophysiological mechanism for hypomania in subthalamic nucleus deep brain stimulation for Parkinson's disease.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19487890
and there are more like the above
Again, in my opinion, before his Parkinson's diagnosis, Robin was already living in a semi delicate bipolar hypomania condition for decades.
From the quoted articles above, one these things or a combination of them may have taken place:
1) the combination of the periodic bipolar depression with the clinical Parkinson's depression drove him into a very deep depression
2) the medication or treatment to slow or manage Parkinson's could exacerbate his bipolar condition or dull his hypomania such that he could no longer do what he did in comedy and from that, no longer make folks laugh or create his art
The doctors may have told him he was basically screwed and they couldn't help him as much as he felt he needed or they tried what medications/treatment they could and proved it was not going to work. If they concluded he couldn't make folks smile any more, then Robin may have concluded surviving the bouts of deep depression he done much of his life wasn't worth it any more - as there would no longer be much payback for going through that agony. Going forward, he may have forecast he was just going to be a burden on others.
Robin was a very bright and very knowledgeable man - very in tune with science and medicine and in a great position to obtain good medical answers. Maybe something like the above is what he'd concluded or experienced.
That was a very moving reply
I'm so sorry for what you went through in your divorce but glad that you have prevailed, moved on and found good supportive friends.
Your reply proved beyond all doubt that you are definitely not broken!
All the best 
I was thinking about this quote from my post above:
“It’s fun to be brilliant, but who are your peers? Who was his peer?” asked Fisher. “It’s incredibly lonely to be that. And he didn’t have a choice. And that’s why you take drugs, so you can slow up and smell the roses just to know that they are there, and it’s not all you. Drugs for a lot of people kept them alive. Without them they would’ve committed suicide. Not that I think that in any way drugs are positive. But I can certainly understand what drove his need for them, his appetite for them.”
Robin's death has really got to me. Try to be patient with my speculation below.
Bipolar hypomaniacs, that I suspect Robin suffered from, often do get successful treatment with drugs like lithium for example. BUT, a big BUT in Robin's probable case, and a different slant from Fisher's bolded comments above, if Robin took a drug like that to treat his bipolar condition, it would have taken the mania out of him. It would have killed who Robin perceived he was in the public's eye. It would have dramatically subdued his manic, high speed humor. It would have all but killed his perceived ability to do the only thing he was exceptional at in terms of work and creating art. It would have snuffed the endorphin high he talked about. It would have substantially curtailed his ability to put food on the table for his family and so many others he helped through his philanthropy that was so important to this highly empathetic soul.
Tragically, in Robin's case, even if he got diagnosed and good medication prescribed for this condition, and I suspect he did, he couldn't take the conventional nor probably any treatment for the mania or it would have ended or significantly compromised who he was in so many ways. Robin didn't have the choice most folks with this condition do.
Untreated hypomaniacs I've known are "up" a high percentage of the time. Eventually, like the laws of gravity, what goes up must come down. They don't sleep much while they're manic. Eventually, that catches up to them and they get tuckered out. Fatigue kicks in and the high speed mood swings to a real low, depressed mood while they physically recover their energy and heal up.
They can also suffer significant guilt or embarrassment for their out of control behavior due to things like promiscuity or hurt feelings or squandering money.
It appears that Robin lived this way for 40 or more years. Untreated, he would have hit some real lows along the way and it appears, one bad and low depression kicked in that he couldn't seem to get out of and it effectively, having happened many times before and worn him down over the 40 years, drove him to take his own life.
I could be wrong with the above but I suspect I'm probably not all that far off.
That was a real nice letter
It's hard to tell what gets through. Sometimes you have to think it through and attempt some different approaches, trying for one that will take hold or be more effective.
I've agonized over Robin's loss some. This article hit home and resonated some with our discussion in this thread:
Carrie Fisher on Robin Williams: 'He Was the Opposite of Selfish'
https://www.yahoo.com/movies/carrie-fisher-on-robin-williams-he-was-the-opposite-94639993537.html
During an exclusive chat with THR by telephone from London, Fisher recounted the details of their discussion in her dressing room. And while she said she had seen Williams between that night and his tragic suicide on Aug. 11, something about that particular evening — his energy and their conversation about bipolar disorder (a prominent subject of her Broadway show and book of the same name) — has stuck with her all these years.
"He … looked lost, kind of, and he said that he didn’t think he was bipolar. He took the test that I gave the audience and got all the answers right, but didn’t think [being bipolar] was something that had anything to do with him," recalled Fisher, who has been candid about her own struggles with mental illness and addiction. "I never heard anything so off the mark. Like I did, he was driven by that frantic eagerness that you don’t just want someone to like you, you want to explode on their night sky like a miracle. And he did."
...
Even off-set, Fisher said she was blown away by his charisma and the way in which he absorbed his surroundings. “Robin had rampant empathy,” explained Fisher, who is currently on location reprising her role as Leia in J.J. Abrams’ Star Wars: Episode VII. “Everything would end up on his grid. He’d walk in a room, and all the energy there would impact him. He was the opposite of selfish. Anything would hurt him. Or … impact him somehow.”
Perhaps it was that unrelenting stream of emotion that led Williams down a difficult path with substance abuse, she said. The comedian had been open in various interviews over the years about his struggles with alcohol and cocaine, as well as stints in rehab. “It’s fun to be brilliant, but who are your peers? Who was his peer?” asked Fisher. “It’s incredibly lonely to be that. And he didn’t have a choice. And that’s why you take drugs, so you can slow up and smell the roses just to know that they are there, and it’s not all you. Drugs for a lot of people kept them alive. Without them they would’ve committed suicide. Not that I think that in any way drugs are positive. But I can certainly understand what drove his need for them, his appetite for them.”
Substances aside, Fisher described Williams as the “center of attention” in any room, which is why she said she was so drawn to him. “He was something you just don’t see, like a comet. I hope he’s like a comet and he comes again, but that would be selfish,” she said, adding that his energy and comic delivery was “unstoppable.” “I’m sorry he punctuated his sentence before it had run its course. But he packed in five lifetimes before he left.”
Fisher's "Wishful Drinking" show was in the Berkeley/San Francisco area around 2008 which is probably when Robin dropped by to see her backstage.
I get the feeling in that moment Carrie got closer to him than most of the other celebrities he worked with - even though they apparently didn't connect regularly.
She had wonderful things to say including "He Was the Opposite of Selfish". The stories about his philanthropy that are starting to come out reinforce that. If he had money problems, it's probably because he gave much of it away.
I agree "Cowardly, Selfish" is nonsense and horrible way to express what went on.
I reject that while feeling we don't have a ton of facts to be very conclusive and we may never know.
29 years ago, I lost my best friend. He also had a drug and drinking problem. His grandfather, father, brother and sister all graduated at the top of their medical classes. So he had a lot of good medical support. He also had a couple of friends who really cared and did everything we could imagine to help him. He died after going on a bender and inhaling his vomit.
It was easy to conclude alcoholism and drug abuse was his downfall but it troubled me. We had done every single step of the 12 steps of AA and a whole bunch of other things thoroughly yet still lost him. I continued to communicate with his other good friend over the last 29 years and we'd gone over it and over it trying to figure out where we let him down or screwed up. (and I don't need the customary "it's not your fault" because I needed answers - it bugged me)
Last year, the guy who replaced him as my best friend started to behave somewhat similarly. I was all over it because I didn't want to get hurt again. It was the worst wound of my life. So I went to court and had my friend committed to a psychiatric hospital. They let him out and I had to do that two more times until they kept him for a while. The diagnosis was hypomania bipolar disorder. And I had my answer.
What we (the smart doctors and family) missed 29 years ago was the psychiatric diagnosis and treatment. The drug and alcohol abuse was just a symptom. In fairness to the doctors, not as much was known 29 years ago and the treatment choices we have today are substantially better. But we had treated the symptom of alcoholism and not the whole psychiatric problem. My current dear friend is not out of the woods but we're still working on it and we still have a chance.
Even today, as many would know, the problem with bipolar is kind of like alcoholism - not everyone can be treated successfully and a fair percentage take their own life. With hypomaniacs, the highs are awesome - like a great drug but the lows can be pretty nasty as I understand it (I haven't experienced it).
I'm no psychiatrist but my impression of Robin Williams and his behavior has a ton of similarities to my friends. He struck me as being bipolar with hypomania.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypomania
pressured speech
inflated self-esteem or grandiosity
decreased need for sleep
flight of ideas or the subjective experience that thoughts are racing
easy distractibility and attention-deficit similar to attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
increase in psychomotor agitation
involvement in pleasurable activities that may have a high potential for negative psycho-social or physical consequences (e.g., the person engages in unrestrained buying sprees, sexual indiscretions, reckless driving, or foolish business investments).
Now Robin did not publicly display "inflated self-esteem". I don't know if he drove recklessly. He apparently had some money problems which is kind of wild for a guy who is in the top 10 grossing film actors of all time - in spite of his $30 mil combined for two divorces. They don't have to exhibit all the symptoms to be diagnosed with it. It is very common for folks with this condition to deny they have it even after the diagnosis. Sometimes, they take the medication and never accept they have the condition for the balance of their lives.
Having said that, I'm speculating. I don't know for sure. Just passing along some thoughts. But I think that speculation is closer to the mark and more humane than "Cowardly, Selfish".
I haven't been too caught up in the lives of celebrities over the years but a few losses have really got to me: JFK, RFK, MLK and John Lennon. Although they were gunned down and Robin was not, Robin stole my heart and I've been feeling a similar sort of profound loss since I heard the news. From that, I find "Cowardly, Selfish" offensive.
Sadly, some probably do
Saw some ugly rumors about his death starting on the net.
Like Obama's birth certificate, that report linked above won't entirely kill them but it will dramatically muffle them and eliminate them in the minds of rational people.
I don't think Robin would mind wackos spewing conspiracy crap on the net getting smacked down with science and facts.
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