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Member since: 2002
Number of posts: 12,576

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Great points. Rs used to respond to calling something wrong

in a moral sense. They still do it with their view on abortion, even if half-informed or ill-considered.

(I wonder whether they have tuned out the word “wrong” in a factual sense, now that they have accepted so many false beliefs about elections, Covid, Russia, you name it.)

Still, if they have any conscience left, stating your view that something is morally wrong will linger in the backs of their minds and nag at them for consideration.

I think the effect on them is stronger if we allow ourselves to be genuinely outraged and show it. They understand raw emotion and it seems to speak to them better than simple facts stated rationally.

Grievance is contagious.

RWers use the bonding power of contrived anger and fear to their advantage. Politically, it can be powerful. But it's toxic to society and individuals.

Outrage is contagious.

Don’t just say the other side did something wrong. Get mad.

People who don’t follow politics much will take notice. Even if they don’t have context to follow the substance, they will hear the emotion in your voice and your words.

They’re destroying democracy. They’re rigging elections so our votes don’t count. If we say it calmly, people think we must be lying, because a normal person would have their hair on fire.

There is something we can do.

Talk to your fellow citizens in person more than you do online. Oppose the other side without hating them. Counter BS with facts rather than more vitriol. Don’t take the bait. Don’t respond in kind.

This may seem pointless at first. The temptation is to justify your own bad behavior by citing theirs. But that just perpetuates the vicious cycle.

Responding calmly will seem insignificant in the onslaught of lies. Individually, it is. Collectively, it can lift the country. Whether it will be enough to stop a fascist takeover remains to be seen.

We can bemoan the fact that we have to be the reasonable ones. That’s understandable. But the other side is a brainwashed cult. We have no choice.

Sometimes no news is good news.

@robreiner: It has been 17 days since Steve Bannon openly broke the law when he was held in Contempt of Congress for defying a duly authorized subpoena. And Merrick Garland has done nothing. No Rule of Law. No Democracy.

@JoyceWhiteVance: I don’t have any knowledge about what’s going on inside of DOJ, but it does take some time to issue & return grand jury subpoenas to get all the evidence you need in admissible form. Discovery needs to be prepared for turnover to the defendant. These aren’t insignificant tasks.

@BarbMcQuade: The longer DOJ spends reviewing Bannon subpoena matter, the more likely it is they will charge. As @JoyceWhiteVance points out, it takes time to get your ducks in a row to file an indictment, which means producing discovery, anticipating motions, and preparing for a speedy trial.

@k9luna: It just looks like NOTHING is being done inside DOJ.

@JoyceWhiteVance: This is how it looks when prosecutors are working according to the rules. It might be that we should update how the process works but that would likely require action from Congress & I’d argue change should be based on typical cases, not exceptional ones FWIW.

@KAFearless: Joyce, what exactly is the process? Can't DOJ simply state that a GJ has been convened to address the criminal referral? Isn't that something the American people should be made of aware of?

@JoyceWhiteVance: Actually no. You can be prosecuted for disclosing federal grand jury proceedings.

Think of the starting amount as 100%.

10% more would be 110%.

100% more would be twice as much, or 200%.

When you say “more,” you’re adding to the initial 100%.

When you say “as much,” you’re multiplying or dividing.

It's easy to be glib about this and say Sayonara,

but this is a terrible, unworkable idea that undermines our democracy.

Even if we could manage to split the country with no bloodshed, the details are a nightmare. For instance: what happens to our national defense? Suppose we let soldiers choose which “country” they want to serve. Then we have two armies composed of people who hate each other. Vlad would be wetting his pants at that point.

When we’re focused on our own divisions, we are less able to respond to outside threats. That’s when our adversaries will pounce.

I truly do see Trumpers as an existential threat. And in a through-the-looking-glass sort of way, they see us as the threat. Understand that they’ve been led to believe that Trump-Russia was all a hoax, that the election was fraudulent, that Biden is a socialist, and that Antifa and BLM want to burn their cities and teach their kids to be ashamed of being white.

Maybe this site is not the forum for such sentiments, but we have to learn to live and work alongside people we strongly disagree with. It’s going to take a lot of listening and educating, remembering we’re all Americans. Maybe an external threat is needed to unite the country; I hope not. Our self-preservation is on the line now, not just our democracy.

That's wise, if that's their strategy.

It seems the media and therefore the public can only accept a single factual development in a given news cycle.

We've learned that Republicans won't vote for even a watered-down commission. Okay; let that percolate and generate outrage. Then we'll have even more public support when we launch a House investigation.

The delay in waiting at least one news cycle makes it abundantly clear that we extended a hand of bipartisanship, only to have it slapped away — again.

Some of this is Winner's Glow

from having won so big. Everyone loves a good winner.

Some of it is Trump's big lie falling apart and his worsening mental illnesses.

But a lot of it is Joe setting a good example, just keeping his head down and doing the work, and being able to get stuff done. We'd be in a very different place without Warnock and Ossoff.

Finally, Joe is a decent man and reminds most people of what this country used to stand for. I hope he runs again in 2024. He would win.

Governing from unity quells the need for revenge.

That's why I doubt there will be a hard swing of the pendulum away from Dems after Joe. They know he's decent and loves the country.

I'm so glad he was our candidate. If we had gone with a firebrand this time, I would expect a snapback afterwards. Now I wonder if the Rs will ever have a majority. Certainly demographics are not on their side, and they are tied to white supremacist policies, which will be like an anvil to them as they drown.

Granted, there was a hard swing after Obama, but it was not for lack of him trying to govern the whole country magnanimously. Republicans never accepted a black man in the White House. Trump to them was the anti-Obama: unreasonable, stupid and egotistical. May Republicans be ashamed of him forever.
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